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Brilliant news for Tipi Valley

Rik the Vic said:
;)
What's this old "us and them" bollocks? None of the old Welsh-speaking inhabitants in Cwmdu where Tipi Valley is think in that way anymore.
After we'd learnt how to respect our neighbours, we soon found that the old locals, including the farmers, have been happy enough to accept us as neighbours and respect us too. Some of the farmers who once thought of us as "the hippy problem" are now amongst my best friends and I love them.
I must admit my Welsh speaking is pretty meagre, but I and some others do go to Welsh classes, again more out of respect for our neighbours than to be really fluent. My kids (now adults), both tipi-born, regard themselves as Welsh, though I'm English and Mum's Chinese. All of us, whether we think of ourselves as Celtic or Anglo-Saxon, all share in a British gene-pool which started here 10,000 years ago at the end if the last ice age. We all belong to the good Earth.
The hippies don't destroy the old traditional Welsh culture, we help maintain it: e.g. my kettle and skillet and pans of cast iron, perfect for use on open fires, are antique Welsh ones abandoned to junk shops, the rushes we strew on our floors are the same sort that the locals used for the same purpose until the twentieth century. There are no elites anymore. If there's an us-and-them between some English and some Welsh it's a townie thing not a hippie thing. It's not as if we're part of the monied English who move to Wales and push up house prices forcing young local couples to have to move away. We're not displacing anybody and we contribute to the local economy and life, especially in the realm of folk-music. Cwmdu, tiny as it is, now has it's own Post Office, shop and Pub (all run by the local community) as a part of the revival of local life, of which we hippies are an accepted part (and not as claimants and pissheads anymore).
Enough of this cynical us-and-them claptrap. It's just not real, not round here anyway. Life is for living, not whinging. And P.S. The Lake District is a "Celtic" area too. Thanks for making the effort to read all this, but putting people down with vague generalisations is self-destructive and sad.

Nice post Ric - thanks. Informative and really interesting. :)
 
Brockway said:
Why do we have more of a lure for hippies than say, Scotland?

Plenty in Scotland as well IME. Just in most cases the remotness of the most favoured areas mean they can get on with their lives that bit further away from public gaze & I can think of plenty of places where various groups of hippies have integrated pretty well with the general community.

Of course the harsher winters in some parts may have a role too. Those not willing to cooperate with/respect the established community & make a serious go of it tend not to stay that long.
 
well Ric the Vic

Rik the Vic said:
;)
What's this old "us and them" bollocks? None of the old Welsh-speaking inhabitants in Cwmdu where Tipi Valley is think in that way anymore.
After we'd learnt how to respect our neighbours, we soon found that the old locals, including the farmers, have been happy enough to accept us as neighbours and respect us too. Some of the farmers who once thought of us as "the hippy problem" are now amongst my best friends and I love them.
I must admit my Welsh speaking is pretty meagre, but I and some others do go to Welsh classes, again more out of respect for our neighbours than to be really fluent. My kids (now adults), both tipi-born, regard themselves as Welsh, though I'm English and Mum's Chinese. All of us, whether we think of ourselves as Celtic or Anglo-Saxon, all share in a British gene-pool which started here 10,000 years ago at the end if the last ice age. We all belong to the good Earth.
The hippies don't destroy the old traditional Welsh culture, we help maintain it: e.g. my kettle and skillet and pans of cast iron, perfect for use on open fires, are antique Welsh ones abandoned to junk shops, the rushes we strew on our floors are the same sort that the locals used for the same purpose until the twentieth century. There are no elites anymore. If there's an us-and-them between some English and some Welsh it's a townie thing not a hippie thing. It's not as if we're part of the monied English who move to Wales and push up house prices forcing young local couples to have to move away. We're not displacing anybody and we contribute to the local economy and life, especially in the realm of folk-music. Cwmdu, tiny as it is, now has it's own Post Office, shop and Pub (all run by the local community) as a part of the revival of local life, of which we hippies are an accepted part (and not as claimants and pissheads anymore).
Enough of this cynical us-and-them claptrap. It's just not real, not round here anyway. Life is for living, not whinging. And P.S. The Lake District is a "Celtic" area too. Thanks for making the effort to read all this, but putting people down with vague generalisations is self-destructive and sad.


Damn It Ric your more convincing than the leaflet ;) Keep it up ;) wouldnt mind getting in touch with you on another matter if you have a few mins .. if not no biggee.. love light peace.. Lofti
 
loftiandpat said:
Damn It Ric your more convincing than the leaflet ;) Keep it up ;) wouldnt mind getting in touch with you on another matter if you have a few mins .. if not no biggee.. love light peace.. Lofti

What's convincing about that pile of colonialist bollocks? A bunch of (mostly) white middle-class English people colonise a part of Wales and he wants us to be grateful. He even manages to say some of my best friends are Welsh. Then he makes up some bollocks about the English and Welsh sharing the same gene-pool for 10,000 years. Hippies - yuk. Did I buy all those punk records in vain? :eek:

And did he really say we're all of the earth? I now have to go to the hospital to have my toes surgically uncurled. :eek:
 
Brockway said:
What's convincing about that pile of colonialist bollocks? A bunch of (mostly) white middle-class English people colonise a part of Wales and he wants us to be grateful. He even manages to say some of my best friends are Welsh. Then he makes up some bollocks about the English and Welsh sharing the same gene-pool for 10,000 years. Hippies - yuk. Did I buy all those punk records in vain? :eek:
And did he really say we're all of the earth? I now have to go to the hospital to have my toes surgically uncurled. :eek:
:eek: ;)
'Aw, give him a break Del. That's all a bit harsh, mate.
Hippies have rights too!!! :p
 
Brockway said:
What's convincing about that pile of colonialist bollocks? A bunch of (mostly) white middle-class English people colonise a part of Wales and he wants us to be grateful. He even manages to say some of my best friends are Welsh. Then he makes up some bollocks about the English and Welsh sharing the same gene-pool for 10,000 years.


Brockway, who's the "us" you keep mentioning? How many members do you have? Do you imagine you are speaking for all Welsh people, or all Welsh people who actually live in Wales, or for Wales itself in some way? Well, at least you speak for yourself. I think of myself as English because I was born in Hammersmith and was brought up in England. 4 out of my 8 great grandparents were Welsh. Does that mean I forfeit the right to live anywhere without being regarded as a colonist? Are none of your ancestors whatsoever English? I'm not at all sure about the "middle-class" bit, a few here may be. I do admit to being white though, sorry it really wasn't my choice, I just got born that way.
You certainly seem to have issues though which I wouldn't want to trivialise. The way the English authorities have treated the Welsh People over the centuries is something to be angry about, but there again, the way the English authorities have treated the English People over the centuries is something to get angry about too. Our rulers have fucked us all up and driven us from the land, and the civilisation we have had created for us is pretty horrendous.
I've never met anyone who hates me as much as you seem to, and I don't think you would if you lived in Cwmdu. Though I could be wrong there.
But I'm not a warrior like you, I'm a softie (though physically quite strong) and I've had enough of this verbage. You live your way, and I'll live mine, and with this I say goodbye and all the best to you. ;)
 
Dubversion said:
does Brig's success bode well for the others, or isn't it that simple?
i know that a couple of sites in somerset have got temporary permission for benders and wooden shelters and im friends with a woman whos just got permission to keep her straw bale house after years of red tape and bullshit.
things do appear to be changing slowly :)
 
Rik the Vic said:
I don't recognise any of that durruti02, but I wish I could say that going to live in a wonderful place like Tipi Valley has a St Francis-type transformative effect on people. But the truth is, if you're you're a wanker before you go to the Valley, going to the Valley isn't going to suddenly make you a nice person. The Valley has had to put up with some pretty awful people from time to time over the years, because it has always been an open community. Personal growth is a slow process. Valley people aren't morally superior to folks from anywhere else, and some of us are egocentric twats making the beautiful life seem impossible to achieve. My experience of the Valley tells me though that Paradise is possible on Earth. And the Valley is a very magical place. The dogs-killing-sheep problem was sorted out in 1983. There's no-one really dire living in the Valley these days, just one or two Minor Twats. Most of us are really nice, like you would expect to find in any locality. Alcohol doesn't help. But what's important is that Tipi Valley is there, that it's open for people to come and give the lifestyle a try (so long as they don't bring a dog). That's all for now. All love.

fair play mate .. all my stories were from the early 8ts .. sounds like a lot of that stuff has been sorted .. and yes (strong) alcohol seems a curse on most attempts at communal living .. though i guess it is just a symptom of underlying problems .. i don't get why so few places though don't try to deal with it though .. to much live and let live!! :D it's all anarchy :D
 
Dear Brock .. a few points to your point to point out the point of being free..

But I'm not a warrior like you, I'm a softie (though physically quite strong) and I've had enough of this verbage. You live your way, and I'll live mine, and with this I say goodbye and all the best to you.

R the V


Well I am, I and people like me brothers Sisters and blacks and whites all of us fight and fought for you to have your say Brock to show the world how well you have been educated but most of all to provide you with the freedom of speech you now enjoy ..Brock but i dont expect thanks i do, it seems, expect people like yourself to stand and whine and moan about how we are the colonists we are the hippys and you bought a punk record too huh? well done, so did i but went the whole hog and listened to the real heavy metal that followed .. point ? rebellion ? rebel from what society ?? ummm doesnt that make you . the same as Ric and his lets live in a tent on a hillside?? rebelling against england by moving to wales for what ever reason you rebelled against society too and look where it got you ??

He even manages to say some of my best friends are Welsh. Then he makes up some bollocks about the English and Welsh sharing the same gene-pool for 10,000 years.

well yes He does and they well may be .. but then some of my best freinds are welsh and a few are scotish and dare i say it i even know a yellow skinned indian whose great for producing fire water . my point? i served with taffies, jocks, pastie crunchers, The Irish and some very odd people from a place called norfolk i placed my life in their hands s they did so for me .. nothing changes as we all did it for you and you didnt even know .. !!

Ric is right in saying you share the same gene pool with the english but he ommitted the Irish and Scots who you also swapped homes with around 2 thousand years ago so hey you got a lot of celt in ya but then so do most reading this board.. there is a old saying i think you should think over.. before typing engage brain .. We all belong to the good Earth. true enough it does not belong to us how ever .. we rent it from our kids and they from theirs.. so before you scream and wine about hippies being yuk and its all bollox lets look at what the punk movement actually contained ok ?

In 1977, merely suggesting that the Queen was a moron (or a potential H Bomb) would get you banned from the charts. These days The Sex Pistols could duet with Eminem, three strippers and a donkey and roll Her Majesty around Trafalgar Square in a barrel and nobody would give a damn. Times have changed.

Punk took Great Britain (the entertainment industry and the general public) completely by surprise. In the mid 1970s, the massive tornado of the British Invasion of the 60s was a fading memory whose survivors sat atop the charts with pale echoes of their best work. Disco and soft rock/pop were the trends of the day (as they were also in the USA).

Britain's economy was flailing and more and more teenagers left school to go straight on the dole with little hope of financial success or social stimulation.

Malcolm McLaren, who ran a boutique in London that catered to an ever-changing clientele seeking alternative fashion, was on the look-out for a band of loutish adolescents to use as a platform for his loosely held anarchist ideas.

He harboured aspirations to manage The New York Dolls, but when that band disintegrated he looked to even scruffier, younger musicians that frequented his store. In late 1975 the Sex Pistols began to perform with McLaren as their manager and mentor.

Throughout 1976, the Sex Pistols built up a fierce underground following with incendiary live shows which were often violence-ridden chaotic affairs. Late in 76, their debut single Anarchy in the UK established punk's modus operandi - ear-splitting guitars, hyperactive tempo and inflammatory and venomous lyrics . . . with raw energy carrying the lot.

Johnny Rotten was goaded into swearing on national television and Fleet Street descended on punk with horror headlines and outrage.

Other groups were already following the Pistols' blueprint and quickly stepped into the breach. The most famous members of what came to be called the 'Class of '77' were The Damned, The Clash (who mixed punk and politics), The Jam (Mods who modelled themselves after the early Who) and The Buzzcocks (whose punk sensibilities did not hide their keen grasp of pop hooks).

These bands were just the tip of an explosion that saw many minor but important groups adding their voices to the fray. Generation X, The Adverts, The Vibrators, The Saints (from Australia), X-Ray Spex, Slaughter & The Dogs and Chelsea are all esteemed by collectors for the one or two memorable songs they had in them.

Overnight, hordes of angry kids from huge, decaying council estates and soulless high-rise blocks, who were able to relate to the punk movement, chipped in to buy mini sound-systems and bashed away at cheap guitars.

London venues such as the Vortex, Nashville Room, 100 Club, The Roxy and The Marquee threw open their doors to thousands of safety-pinned, cropped top, pogoing punks. At the same time, most council-owned halls barred any form of punk performance.
Today, early British punk records still sound exciting. At the time however, they were also the epitome of nihilistic shock. They could not have caused more of a sensation.

The tempo was FAST (although hardcore eventually made it even faster!), the guitars and vocals were LOUD and the lyrics addressed politics, sex, depression and society with a frank realism that had rarely been heard in popular music.

The performers were not seasoned virtuoso's and they valued inspiration and attitude above professionalism. Some listeners viewed the end-result as unbearably crude. Others welcomed them as a necessary shot of air to blast rock & roll out of its complacency.

Punk never really took hold in the USA as it did in Britain (although those who were converted took up the music with a passion that equalled their British counterparts).

The Sex Pistols found this out the hard way, with Johnny Rotten leaving the group in 1978 after the last show of a brief but legendarily chaotic American tour, where their album Never Mind The Bollocks stopped just short of the Top 100.

Perhaps punk failed to take hold in the US because it was diametrically opposed to the American Dream. US rock audiences liked a working class hero - as long as he behaved like a star. So in the US in the mid-Seventies there weren't many takers for the notion of well brought-up, middle class kids ripping perfectly good clothes and pretending to have been born in the gutter.

Another reason Punk never took off in America (aside from the fact that the conventional music business chose to ignore it) was the sheer size of the country. Unlike in Britain, independent record labels could not reasonably expect to have anything more than a local hit.

In the end, punk did not so much die out as mutate and diversify. As liberating as the first wave of punk was, it was impossible to perform an endless loop of hyper-fast, bile-filled anthems, as the musician's ambitions broadened and their musical skills improved.

The Jam remained huge stars in the UK through the early 80s, like The Clash who became stars in the USA at long last after 1979s London Calling LP, they refined their sound and incorporated reggae, R&B, soul and pop into their compositions without ever compromising their integrity.

Original British punksters like Generation X and Sham 69 played themselves out almost immediately and others went into arty minimalism (eg: Wire and The Fall), psychedelia (Soft Boys), pop (The Undertones) or new wave (Siouxsie & The Banshees).

By 1980, new wave had become the new label for a modified, tamed but no less innovative offspring of the original punk explosion.

see the thing about this is this brock.. punk only followed where others have trodden the hippies you decry set the limits and boundries that punk flouted. In fact if it wasnt for the hippies punk wouldnt and couldnt have happened.. here let me show you why in my next post ..
 
The Role of the Hippie in American Culture American society and culture experienced an awakening during the 1960s as a result of the diverse civil rights, economic, and political issues it was faced with. At the center of this revolution was the American hippie, the most peculiar and highly influential figure of the time period. Hippies were vital to the American counterculture, fueling a movement to expand awareness and stretch accepted values. The hippies’ solutions to the problems of institutionalized American society were to either participate in mass protests or drop out of society completely. The government and the older generations could not understand their way of life. Hippies were often portrayed as criminals, subversive to the morals and best interest of the public.

Although misunderstood, the hippie had a great impact throughout the country, still surviving today in American culture. The term “hippie” itself became a universal term in the late sixties. It originated in a 1967 article in Ramparts, entitled “The Social History of the Hippies.” Afterward, the name was captured by the mass media as a label for the people of the new movement. (Yablonsky 28) Even before this, the word “hip” described someone who was “in” and “down”, wise to what was going on around him. By the 1960s, some of America’s youth created a gap between themselves and their parents.

They grew their hair long because it was natural and therefore considered beautiful. At first, the idea of men with long hair was absurd and society considered it a sign of homosexuality. When it became clear that the establishment felt so strongly about hair, the attitudes of young rebels changed. One young man responded after being questioned about his unkempt appearance: Growing hair does not mean that I am or am not a homosexual. It does mean that I am willing to stand up for my rights as a human being an that includes my right to be harmless to all people. It also indicates my unwillingness to get on the treadmill of killing for a vast machine-like government.

If I am scorned and called dirty because I allow hair to grow on my face and my head, then so much the better, for by this I indicate the seriousness of my belief. I scorn the society that has created this monstrous robot-like conformity that feeds the war machine as Hitler found robots to feed his war machine.

(Perry 188) In contrast to the short crew-cut style that every young man adhered to during the fifties, the hippie popularized a diversity of hairstyles with no single ideal image to fit. The clothes worn by hippies were also chosen to express anti-establishment sentiments to the public. They tried to stay away from store-bought, expensive clothes. Their pants, shirts and dresses were made of comfortable, natural fibers like cotton and denim. Many articles of clothing were handcrafted, such as belts, shoes, necklaces, and headbands. As poverty spread, the hippie wardrobe grew increasingly shabby. They shopped at thrift shops and places like the Diggers’ Free Store. “Gray, dingy, torn clothes and broken shoes became the characteristic style of the hippies.” (Wolf 18) Spawned out of necessity rather than style, these clothes were another symbol of their retaliation against the system. The hippies’ approach toward life was much more relaxed and open-minded than the rest of society. They all agreed on the importance of brotherhood among people of all races and ethnicity. Preaching a motto of love and kindness, hippies tried to spread their beliefs into society. “By handing out flowers, singing songs, and making orations, these young people tried to make America hear its message of love.” (Kornbluth 250-253) People would share resources amongst each other, making sure everyone got a portion of the food, drink, clothes that the group managed to get. This was completely opposite to the government policies favoring sharp economic inequality, allowing starvation and poverty to continue. “The Diggers of San Francisco attempted to do their part, organizing free meals and handouts”. (Wolf 11) This charitable display demonstrated the kindness and gentleness of the hippies to the American public. They hoped that the rest of the population would follow in their example and help the indigent unfortunately they did not.

The hippies, did however, gain respect in the eyes of the public as champions of the poor. Sex was a major issue associated with the hippie culture of the sixties. Society had built up barriers against intimate contact between the sexes for decades. Throughout American history, pre-marital sex was offensive and unacceptable to society. “The hippies challenged these limits by practicing sexual activities spontaneously an openly. Their promiscuity left the nation in disbelief: having multiple partners and engaging in casual sex with little emotional engagement.” (Mills 112-113) The female’s sensuality was actually realized and flaunted. These girls did not dress in conservative, concealing clothes to hide themselves. Hippies realized the beauty of the human body; as a result they found no need to hide it. One hippie’s remark about the women he associated with was quite noteworthy, “See the girls in the miniskirts? See the beautiful legs. Yes they lead to the …! & these girls do not tease… they *censored*. Can you take it?” (Kornbluth 206). Of course, society strongly disagreed with this behavior. The deviation from the nuclear family ideal imposed upon them was a vital step for the hippies. “Through this gesture, they abolished the possessiveness and materialism associated with marriage.” (Westhues 41-42) Illegitimate children and unrestricted sex created a negative stigma, but it brought the hippies even more attention from the American public. Although many people did not approve of the hippie lifestyle and some turned their heads, they made a lasting impression on social boundaries. The possibilities of sexual freedom they presented to the “straights” took root and eventually widened their boundaries as well.
 
The hippies openly advocated the use of drugs to enhance the monotony of daily life and to raise awareness. Marijuana and LSD were their most prevalent drugs of choice because of their psychedelic properties. “Grass” had been illegal since 1937, so dealing with it was a criminal offense. The hippies used marijuana for numerous purposes, unable to find the negative effects that the government had been spreading for decades. David Solomon, editor of The Marijuana Papers stated comically in regard to weed: Like Spearmint, it aids concentration and helps you do almost anything a little bit better. It grows hair on the palm of your hands, introduces you to a nice type of black man, overcomes impotence, improves appetite, banishes excess bat, constipation, and headaches, and relieves rheumatism…. In short, it’s a miracle drug. A pot nation is a powerful nation. Possible side effects: a feeling of dreamy nonchalance, heightened sense of awareness, bursts of introspection, mellowing attitude towards one’s fellow man, especially if he’s stoned beside you. (Neville 127) The continued use of marijuana, despite legislation and parental guidelines was another powerful means of rebellion. Many people were “turned on” to the hip “scene” by marijuana. (Yablonsky 242) Smoking grass soon spread into the suburbs and the rest of sheltered America. The popularization of LSD can easily be attributed to the hippies and the self-proclaimed leaders of the acid movement. Remaining legal until 1966, LSD gained great publicity from them and drew notoriety after it was criminalized. Timothy Leary’s studies were published and widely read, almost like bibles. His book The Psychedelic Experience, and a translated version of The Tibetan Book of the Dead soon became the guidebooks for passage through a successful trip. (Westhues 40-41) Through his writing, he spread the hippie motto of “Turn on, Tune in, Drop Out”. Ken Kesey’s acid tests and his adventures with the Pranksters drew further attention to the acid movement, as it came to be known.

In The Electric Kool Aid Acid Test, an account of his adventures, he metaphorically states, “There are going to be times, when we can’t wait for somebody. Now, you’re either on the bus or off the bus. If you’re on the bus, and you get left behind, then you’ll find it again. If you’re off the bus in the first place- then it won’t make a damn. You’re either on the bus…or off the bus” (Wolfe 74). The hippies believed that LSD had the power to raise them to a higher consciousness, it helped you get “on the bus.” Hippies used acid limitlessly, tightening the bonds with each other and widening the gap between themselves and society. Americans could reluctantly tolerate marijuana usage, but after seeing the creative and frightening effects of LSD, would not accept the chemical in society. Individuality and identity are two very important ideals to the hippies.

They feel that the establishment tries to control people through routine methods like organized work and leisure. “The idea of anything organized would instantly evoke boredom and restraint in the mind of the hippie.” (Cavan 162-163) Many of these young people devoted tremendous amounts of time to “doing their own thing”. This could have been anything, ranging from creative endeavors like painting and poetry to merely sitting on the grass meditating. Doing one’s “own thing” brought the person a unique sense of identity. This gave them a different approach to finding careers than their parents tried to teach them “If you get a job or something, you’re even more conforming to the system, and if you don’t agree with it, where do you turn? So you see you kind of invent your own lifestyle” (Mills 79).

The dehumanizing effect of joining the American workforce was met with the hippies’ decision to exclude themselves from it, avoiding its negative effects. This placed them outside of the economy, separating them from the rest of society. Of course, they were further misunderstood and even despised for their refusal to work. Some hippies looked for solutions to the social problems plaguing the U.S. during the sixties. They staged massive demonstrations to draw attention and try to bring about change. Student activism reached a peak during the 1960s as bright, affluent college students fought against unfair legislation, abuse of human rights, racial discrimination, and U.S. involvement in Vietnam.

These protestors were more than just hippies, they were the children of the upper middle class. The social status of these students ensured that their message was heard by the public and captured by the media. (Westby 254) Images of angry hippies burning draft cards and giving speeches to huge audiences spread across the country. During the mid 1960s, anti-war demonstrations flooded the nation’s capital. Led by the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS), some protests drew massive crowds of twenty-five thousand protestors or more. (Young 150-151) The commitment to a common was a unifying force among the hippies, surpassing any individual differences.

The protests were very important because they were nationally televised, placing the hippie at the center of the American home, in the living room. Another group of hippies thought the answer was merely to “drop out” of society completely. They chose to live together communally, generally in rural areas, and attempted to become self-sufficient. On these communes, they participated in food and clothing production, child rearing as well as devoting plenty of time to “do their own thing.” (Cavan 155) These hippies quickly learned that survival was very difficult without the aid of civilization. A commune could not function without a great deal of effort on behalf of the members. As they soon found out, organization was necessary to keep these communities running smoothly. Because most hippies came to the communes escaping the establishment, organization was not easy to impose upon them. (Westhues 194-195) The most famous hippie community was not a farm, it was the Haight-Ashbury area of San Francisco. People flocked from around the country to experience the phenomenon of merely being there, of “being in” (Perry 29-30). The brotherhood and kindness present in the community was hidden from the American public by the appearance and lifestyle of the inhabitants.

Tour buses carried visitors through the neighborhood providing them with a superficial and confused view of the community: We are now entering the largest hippie colony in the world and the very heart and fountainhead of the hippie subculture. We are now passing through the ‘Bearded Curtain’ and will journey down Haight Street, the very nerve center of a city within a city…Marijuana, of course is a household staple here, enjoyed by the natives to stimulate their senses… Among the favorite pastimes of the hippies, besides taking drugs, are parading and demonstrating, seminars, malingering, and the ever-present preoccupation with the soul, reality, and self-expression such as strumming guitars, piping flutes and banging on bongos. (Yablonsky 200). The creation of hippie communities gave them a foundation in American society. Whether the public liked it or not, the hippies became a permanent part of our culture.

The controversial messages of the hippies and their socially unacceptable lifestyle made them targets of very much negative publicity. They were all portrayed as drug pushers, prostitutes, and thieves by the media. (Mills 76-77) The belief that their subversive ideas could destroy society’s structure and values caused people to fear them. Following the 1960s, as many of these hippies grew older, the returned to normal society. They eventually bought into the establishment they once fought against, by getting married, moving into suburban homes and buying family cars. Some stubborn individuals never lost their hippie appearance and lifestyle. Many of these interesting individuals can still be seen in San Francisco and the East Village in New York. A large number of these hippies are even conveniently located in beautiful Ithaca. Their appearance is still the same, but now hippie gear is mass-produced for the department stores. Regardless of how their lives had changed, the impression that hippies left will last forever.

They demonstrated the power of America’s youth as they fought to bring about change. The hippies taught people to appreciate nature and the beauty of the human body. Most importantly, hippies broke social boundaries, setting an example that others would follow.


Then of course we can say a few things about the state this governemtn has left us in but if i did this post would be so long you`d skip it and run to a smaller less hard work one to read..


So you see your agruement whilst colourfull to the uneducated .. and whilst being amazingly blasting to Ric the Vic was nothing more than smoke and beer now of course i could offer you advice but i doubt you` d understand it or even take the advice as offered.. left to us in a room i`d offer you some green and papers and show you how to calm down .. but then i`m a kinda calming guy and really nice .. some say ..


Love Light Peace Lofti .
 
Dunno, but at least he makes use of paragraphs...normally such long posts have ne'er a break in the text so let's be grateful for small mercies.
 
Brock asked why he bought the records i thought idanswer him and got umm carried away ?? dang i need coffee :p i hate it when i get on a soap box sorry peeps it must be monday ;)


Love Light peace
 
loftiandpat said:
Brock asked why he bought the records i thought idanswer him and got umm carried away ?? dang i need coffee :p i hate it when i get on a soap box sorry peeps it must be monday ;)


Love Light peace

Wasn't the death of hippy march in 1967?

And I know that punk died the day The Expolited formed.
 
Or alternatively, you could've just linked to the sites you nicked it all from:
Here or on this free essays site here. :rolleyes:
I think Brockway went a bit far with the ole vitriol on Ric the Vic, and think that it's sad that Ric doesn't feel he wants to post on here any more. I think Lofti an' Pat may have wanted to say something like that too, before they got carried away with the C&Ps. ;)
 
RubberBuccaneer said:
And I know that punk died the day The Expolited formed.
i hope that was a joke
well im still alive anyway and have always considered myself a punk more than anything else,
never as a fashion statement though.

ric didnt say he was leaving did he?
 
llantwit said:
Or alternatively, you could've just linked to the sites you nicked it all from:
Here or on this free essays site here. :rolleyes:
I think Brockway went a bit far with the ole vitriol on Ric the Vic, and think that it's sad that Ric doesn't feel he wants to post on here any more. I think Lofti an' Pat may have wanted to say something like that too, before they got carried away with the C&Ps. ;)


yeah something like that but pree caffine i get a bit umm .. lol ooppss...


Ric said he doesnt want to return to post in here for a while Hes agentle sort and the attack on him was .. well massive.. my appologies if my c & p was too intense ....



LLP Lofti
 
loftiandpat said:
yeah something like that but pree caffine i get a bit umm .. lol ooppss...
Ric said he doesnt want to return to post in here for a while Hes agentle sort and the attack on him was .. well massive.. my appologies if my c & p was too intense ....
LLP Lofti
:)
Can empathise with the coffe thing. Talking of which, I'm off to put the kettle on.
 
Rik is indeed a gentle sort...I have very fond memories of him...lovely bloke. I'll never forget when he was off to his brother's wedding, dressed in home-cured rabbit skins carrying a lamb under his arm...he looked a bit like a cross between Ben Gunn and John the Baptist...even blasé 'seen it all before' Brixtonians looked somewhat taken aback....
 
loftiandpat said:
yeah something like that but pree caffine i get a bit umm .. lol ooppss...


Ric said he doesnt want to return to post in here for a while Hes agentle sort and the attack on him was .. well massive.. my appologies if my c & p was too intense ....



LLP Lofti
which attack on him? is it in this thread?
 
thefuse said:
which attack?

o.k. sorry folks, maybe I did feel too sensitive about it, it is just words. Can we forget about that now and keep the thread interesting, before Mrs Magpie embarrasses me with more daft things I did the best part of a quarter of a century ago.
I wouldn't dare dress like that these days Mrs M, but the reaction at the time in different towns was interesting: in Carmarthen it was looks of astonished horror (maybe John the Baptist is due to reappear just before The End of the World), in London no-one batted an eyelid even when I went on the Underground dressed in goatskins carrying a lamb (good grief) but in Paris everyone was delighted and I had a great time. Never again, I've even got a compuer now, though I'm not sure why.

So to get back to Tipi Valley (which is partly what this thread is supposed to be about). The community owns about 200 acres now, about half held in common and half owned by individuals (and a lot of that is used in common).
Most of us came as urban refugees with certainly no money to buy land with.
But the fact that the Tipi Village exists at all is due to an ususual circumstance, that being that we found a farmer, in fact three farmers, who were prepared to sell us land field by field as we could afford to buy it, so we didn't need huge sums of money to establish ourselves. Not the usual way of buying land at all.
And it is certainly true that in those days most of us did receive Social Security. That's how we did it. We used to live as simply as we could buying our wholefoods from Brig's shop, growing what we could, and by putting whatever we could manage into a Land Fund, to buy a bit more of the Valley. So in a way Tipi Valley was State sponsored! Every land purchase has different trustees and that way we have saved ourselves from becoming a centralised organisation.
To this day we have no leaders (being a leader is something you do not something you are, if you get my meaning), and no hierarchy. It is an anarchist society based on mutual respect. We never vote on anything, a good idea or a complaint is talked about socially and the result is usually a consensus of sorts giving plenty of freedom for individual initiative or direct action to get things done.
We never need to struggle to find our ideology, because it is obvious to everyone: to live lightly upon the earth as a part of nature, as distinct from a civilisation that has largely forgotten where it came from and which tries to keep nature within tidily-kept "conservation areas".
Anyway, it's pissing down outside now after many weeks of dry weather, lovely to be back to normal!
I hope this is of some interest to somebody. Thanks.
 
:) I personally think its great having a lovely self sufficient village(?), where people can live how they want to live,,,
my parents travelled for awhile and lived in vans and squats in wales and Dorset(nice ones my mum tells me), anyway, what i'm trying to say is that, i couldnt have asked for a better childhood, even tho i was fed on nuts and berries(seriously) for a few yrs,
They had a huge network of friends all round the country, where they could drop in at any time and the same goes for then, their house was always open,, and festivals were great coz there would be a huge gathering of friends camped together, where everyone looked out for each others kids,,
the vibes were good,,life was good,,,
its all good mannnn,,,, :cool:

good on you Rik for living the life you want,, big repect :)
 
*Miss Daisy* said:
:)

good on you Rik for living the life you want,, big repect :)

Fair enough - but why can't they set up their utopia in their own country? Aren't there any fields in England they can colonize? :confused:

The Welsh hinterlands are becoming an odd refuge for English drop-outs and "white flight" English fascists.

I wouldn't mind if Tipi valley was peopled by say, Albanian refugees, but a bunch of English people deciding they quite fancy colonizing part of Wales seems a bit arrogant to me.
 
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