Brian Paddick

[Mrs Magpie]

Do you think this is an entirely appropriate point to pursue right now, in this thread, considering what's happened today?

Quite.

 

[Wookey]

Everyone was warned to be vigilant. Besides, he could have blown up any gay pub anywhere.

There was considered to be a specific threat to the gay community - one that was printed by the Pink Paper, but not communicated to the community by the police. You might not see that error as noteworthy but I do. Whether it would have stopped him is immaterial - official communication of intelligence failed at the crucial moment.

 

[Xtine]

Paddick is godly. in my cuntry, such an intelligent and articulate person would be flipping hamburgers.

 

[Wraith37]

Paddick was a copper in Brixton at the time of the nail bombings - had sweet F.A to do with Soho, and wouldn't have been privy to ss warnings about targets North of the River. HE CLEARLY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT OPERATION. Imbecilic to attack the man who's the one good thing about the Met, IMHO, most of all today, when his up-front presence as the Met's voice gives a clear message of; 'fuck off, ALL homophobic extremists, this is the kind of cop we want in this city.'

Obviously over certain heads, though....

 

[Lock&Light]

Also I was pleased to see Rowan Williams taking the anti-xenophobic line.

I wonder if you've ever noticed that he also has never suggested that Blair and Bush are mass-murderers, and that, despite his opposition to the Iraq War.

 

[kropotkin]

It seems fine to me, the thread isn't as centrally important to the bombings as others in general. This is an interesting slant to the nail-bombings that isn't well known enough...

In my opinion, of course

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Paddick was a copper in Brixton at the time of the nail bombings - had sweet F.A to do with Soho, and wouldn't have been privy to ss warnings about targets North of the River. HE CLEARLY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT OPERATION. Imbecilic to attack the man who's the one good thing about the Met, IMHO, most of all today, when his up-front presence as the Met's voice gives a clear message of; 'fuck off, ALL homophobic extremists, this is the kind of cop we want in this city.'

Obviously over certain heads, though....

Nobody ever said he was privy to MI5 warnings--but given that one source for the Contention Copeland was tailed & lost by SB was somebody Paddick would have known well, I might have thought he would have taken at least a retrospective interest in this scandal. Still, not something to pursue further today.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

erm - the Police had been given his name (by a co-worker IRRC), but he wasnt under surveillance

that has been contradicted by not one but two official sources, that I have disclosed the names of.

 

[detective-boy]

that has been contradicted by not one but two official sources, that I have disclosed the names of.

Just to put the record straight (and I was still serving at the time):

1. Copeland's name had been put into the system ... along with many, many more. It was on the basis that he fitted the description / grainy video still which was released to the media.

2. The suspects were all prioritised and teams of officers assigned to check each one out. The officers who went to check Copeland were not happy with him and immediately took steps to arrest him and search his address, resulting in the evidence being found.

3. He was not under surveillance at any time.

4. He was not "lost" by Special Branch.

5. The gay community were warned. By local uniformed officers in Soho. They visited all the different premises and advised on increased security measures / vigilance.

6. There was no SPECIFIC threat to the gay community at any time. It was on the basis of "what links these bombs? minority" type analysis of the things that had happened.

You are, of course, perfectly entitled to your own paranoid conspiracy theories but, unless you can provide any proof , people should measure them against other accounts of what happened.

 

[corporate whore]

Paddick put on a good performance today. Odd how he's now the acceptable face of the Met..

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Just to put the record straight (and I was still serving at the time):

1. Copeland's name had been put into the system ... along with many, many more. It was on the basis that he fitted the description / grainy video still which was released to the media.

2. The suspects were all prioritised and teams of officers assigned to check each one out. The officers who went to check Copeland were not happy with him and immediately took steps to arrest him and search his address, resulting in the evidence being found.

3. He was not under surveillance at any time.

4. He was not "lost" by Special Branch.

5. The gay community were warned. By local uniformed officers in Soho. They visited all the different premises and advised on increased security measures / vigilance.

6. There was no SPECIFIC threat to the gay community at any time. It was on the basis of "what links these bombs? minority" type analysis of the things that had happened.

You are, of course, perfectly entitled to your own paranoid conspiracy theories but, unless you can provide any proof , people should measure them against other accounts of what happened.

Well, no wonder crime clear-up rates are so low.....

1) Chief Superintendent Andy Bunn said in the presence of Outrage founder-member John Beeson "we were tracking him, unfortunately he gave us the slip"

2) In July 2002, at the Met LGBT Advisory Group meeting, the above matter was raised & in the words of Simon Forbes (see Outrage web-site on the Admiral Duncan bombing) not specifically disputed.

3) In June 2000, at a pre-trial briefing, Steve Greenwood/Linda Bellos (LGBT Advisory Group) plus Gerry Gable, were shown by the police extensive footage of Copeland being monitored. The line at that meeting was Copeland was being 'passively monitored' by CCTV, and they lost him

4) There is also the information given to Peter Tatchell that Special Branch "lost [Copeland] in or near Broadwick street"

If you're saying that Chief Superintendent Bunn & the relevant LGBT/Outrage members cited above are/were engaged in "paranoid conspiracy theorising", then I beg to disagree. Of course, if you were involved at the time, I can well see how you would want to cover up the facts, as fully outlined in issues 3 5 & 6 of Notes From the Borderland. In which case those in the know will fully understand how well your dissimulation measures against what really happened.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Paddick put on a good performance today..

I agree, within the confines of his job, he has shown some considerable nerve in refusing to demonise Islam, and deserves credit for that (whatever my disagreements with him on other matters might be).

 

[Wookey]

You are, of course, perfectly entitled to your own paranoid conspiracy theories but, unless you can provide any proof , people should measure them against other accounts of what happened.

When the Pink Paper asked the Met press office on the week of the bomb, if they would provide a texted warning to the gay community, the request was refused. The Pink went with the headline it did purely because of an off the record comment from a special branch officer.

If you want to speak to a lot of people, you don't send officers round pubs having words. You get hold of the Press. I wonder why that didn't happen.

 

[Stobart Stopper]

Paddick put on a good performance today. Odd how he's now the acceptable face of the Met..

Not really surprised, he's one of the few senior officers who has intelligence as well as the ability to talk to normal, working class people, Not many senior officers are willing to talk to people like he used to in Lambeth. I don't know of any other Commander who would walk the beat on his own like he did.

 

[Ms T]

Hendo met him yesterday. He passed on Mrs Magpie's regards!

 

[Badger Kitten]

Paddick was very good yesterday, as was every single police officer that I met. Thank to the police for helping everyone yesterday.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Not really surprised, he's one of the few senior officers who has intelligence as well as the ability to talk to normal, working class people, Not many senior officers are willing to talk to people like he used to in Lambeth. I don't know of any other Commander who would walk the beat on his own like he did.

Or sit on a box in a crowded kitchen in a house full of packing cases for a house-warming in a notorious Brixton housing estate having arrived on foot......he brought the best bottle I have to say...

 

[Bob]

Livingstone's speech was great.

Angry, reasoned, honest and passionate. Respect.

I agree, with one big BUT. Why did he have to say it was an attack on 'working class people'? It sounded like a clumsy politicising of what was otherwise a good speech...

 

[William of Walworth]

Can someone tell me what capacity Brian Paddick serves now? I've never been clear about that since he left Lambeth.

I was wondering why he came to the fore in making statements yesterday -- just curiosity like.

 

[William of Walworth]

I agree, with one big BUT. Why did he have to say it was an attack on 'working class people'? It sounded like a clumsy politicising of what was otherwise a good speech...

It was from the heart, it was what he felt and thought. You make it sound as if it was deliberate politicising.

In any case, in a literal sense it's true. Almost everyone caught up in those explosions was heading for work.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Can someone tell me what capacity Brian Paddick serves now? I've never been clear about that since he left Lambeth.

I was wondering why he came to the fore in making statements yesterday -- just curiosity like.

Deputy Assistant Comissioner of the Met. I think he has special responsibility for Community Safety.

 

[detective-boy]

Of course, if you were involved at the time, I can well see how you would want to cover up the facts ...

And where the fuck did I say I was involved at the time? Or did someone tell someones granny who told their mate who told someone else who though Peter Tatchell should know? The facts are in the public domain. There was a trial. Copeland had competent defence solicitors.

Just a few other points:

Could you tell me who exactly Chief Superintendent Andy Bunn is/was? I can find no mention of him in the MPS. In any event, does not this apparent revelation totally fly against allegations of a cover-up?

What is the context of the alleged "we were tracking him" quote? Copeland had been of interest previously as a member of the BNP but with no relevance to the bombs.

Just because something is "not specifically disputed" does not mean that it is true. If the MPS had to deny every fucking stupid comment / allegation made then it would never do anything else.

Context of the CCTV footage shown? I am aware that reactive enquiries AFTER the bombings revealed footage showing Copeland (the still from which he was identified came from such footage) but he was not being deliberately targeted by the operators as a potential bomber. The vast majority of street CCTV systems are operated by councils and council employees, not police, in any event.

Who gave Peter Tatchell the information about Copeland being lost in Broadwick Street? Can't say I recall Mr Tatchell repeating this claim - unusual if it is true, he's hardly world-famous for being a shy retiring wallflower!

I am not going to get into a slanging match with you about what is right and what is wrong because I am guessing it would be like pissing in the wind.

The Mets clear-up rate would surely improve significantly if the evidential burden of proof were altered to that which you seem to employ (i.e. someone said so, so it must be true).

 

[krtek a houby]

His was the best of the day, especially in comparison to Blair's slow-and-steady, burrowed-eyes acting audition, and Bush's almost laughable "we're gonna talk to the folks at Homeland Security" standard cobble.

Agreed.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

And where the fuck did I say I was involved at the time? Or did someone tell someones granny who told their mate who told someone else who though Peter Tatchell should know? The facts are in the public domain. There was a trial. Copeland had competent defence solicitors.

Just a few other points:

Could you tell me who exactly Chief Superintendent Andy Bunn is/was? I can find no mention of him in the MPS. In any event, does not this apparent revelation totally fly against allegations of a cover-up?

What is the context of the alleged "we were tracking him" quote? Copeland had been of interest previously as a member of the BNP but with no relevance to the bombs.

Just because something is "not specifically disputed" does not mean that it is true. If the MPS had to deny every fucking stupid comment / allegation made then it would never do anything else.

Context of the CCTV footage shown? I am aware that reactive enquiries AFTER the bombings revealed footage showing Copeland (the still from which he was identified came from such footage) but he was not being deliberately targeted by the operators as a potential bomber. The vast majority of street CCTV systems are operated by councils and council employees, not police, in any event.

Who gave Peter Tatchell the information about Copeland being lost in Broadwick Street? Can't say I recall Mr Tatchell repeating this claim - unusual if it is true, he's hardly world-famous for being a shy retiring wallflower!

I am not going to get into a slanging match with you about what is right and what is wrong because I am guessing it would be like pissing in the wind.

The Mets clear-up rate would surely improve significantly if the evidential burden of proof were altered to that which you seem to employ (i.e. someone said so, so it must be true).

1) Copeland's solicitors did not mount a proper defence--they didn't even call him as a witnesss. The point anyway isn't just Copeland's (undoubted) guilt, but that of others, including state agencies.

2) John Bunn rather than Andy Bunn--my (minor) mistake.

3) Bunn's admission was made to a closed meeting.

4) The context of the 'tracking him' quote is pre-trial.

5) Your attempted snow job in defence of Special Branch is noted. Known as a 'security blank'.

6) Your resort to swearing is interesting--this "stupid fucking allegation" is derived in part from police sources, hence your bluster.

7) The context of the TV footage shown was that of explaining how Copeland had been tracked & lost.

8) Experience in Irish Republican cases--eg Fryers/Jack/Hammill, shows the idea that the police do not have the capability on occasion of using CCTV real time is not far-fetched.

9) Tatchell's claim has been repeated, indeed an email stating such is reproduced (with his permission) in Notes From the Borderland

10) You disingenuously refer to standards of proof/evidence as though I was pronouncing sentence, rather than calling for a proper public inquiry. I did not say that because important police officers said something, it must be true, but rather that the fact they have done so contributes powerfully to the general case for a proper enquiry.

11) Tell me, what 'standard of evidence' led the police/spooks to feed newspapers over the weekend lurid stories about the police hunting the AlQaeda head of European operations overeseas, when the poor sap is living openly, in the UK??

12) You speak of "pissing in the wind". Momentarily, that wind may be blowing to the favour of the police & their apologists. But that wind may, indeed will, change....

In the end, if you know even one third of what you claim to concerning such matters, you know the truth behind what I allege. However, you are calculating the vast majority of people, including those on U75, neither know about or will follow this case. That may not always be so, and hopefully won't.

 

[pooka]

....he brought the best bottle I have to say...

Hhhhmph!