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Brexit & Scotland

Don't just look at it as Scotland in relation to UK and EU.
I'm not. I'm looking at it in the light of the reaction of capital (the relationship, not the class) to changing supranational structures.

I'm not a fan of the EU. It's, certainly since 2007, the codified set of neoliberal rules that has defined and constrained the relationships of capital in accordance to the needs of the neoliberal project.

Please note: the Remain vote in Scotland should not be seen the same way as the Remain vote in England and Wales: in many ways it has a similar effect and message to the Leave vote of England and Wales.
 
Any thoughts on the SNP staking an official claim to be recognised as the opposition in Westminster and wanting to form a shadow cabinet?

08:11
A bit more on the news we mentioned earlier that the Scottish National Party will today ask to be declared the official Oppositon at Westminster.

They say their leader Angus Robertson enjoys more support than Jeremy Corbyn.

There are 56 SNP MPs - but only 40 Labour MPs have expressed support for Mr Corbyn.

They also say they are able to fill all the relevant shadow posts to the government, unlike Mr Corbyn.

They point to Parliamentary rules which say the official Opposition must be "prepared to assume power."

A source said: "We have looked at Erskine May (the Parliamentary rule book) and will put it to the Speaker that the Labour Party no longer meet obligations to remain as the official Opposition."
 
...and you know what? I bet there's plenty of Labour MP's desperate enough to stick the knife into Corbyn that they'd go along with this madcap scheme. The fools.
 
...and you know what? I bet there's plenty of Labour MP's desperate enough to stick the knife into Corbyn that they'd go along with this madcap scheme. The fools.
They already went along by voting no confidence in him yesterday. The SNP group is quite correct, Corbyn does not have the support of enough MPs to top their tally. Whether or not Corbyn has enough to fulfil his official obligations, as they claim he does not, I don't know - I can't pretend to be an expert in Erskine May. But if they say they've looked into it, it'll be interesting to see what the response of the Speaker is. I assume he can't just laugh it off, but will have to come up with a plausible answer.
 
They already went along by voting no confidence in him yesterday. The SNP group is quite correct, Corbyn does not have the support of enough MPs to top their tally. Whether or not Corbyn has enough to fulfil his official obligations, as they claim he does not, I don't know - I can't pretend to be an expert in Erskine May. But if they say they've looked into it, it'll be interesting to see what the response of the Speaker is. I assume he can't just laugh it off, but will have to come up with a plausible answer.
I do know that Labour is unable to appoint a shadow secretary of state for Scotland from its Commons benches. I would have thought that under the circumstances that currently prevail, having one would be fairly necessary.
 
I do know that Labour is unable to appoint a shadow secretary of state for Scotland from its Commons benches. I would have thought that under the circumstances that currently prevail, having one would be fairly necessary.
The SNP case seems to hinge on this phrase: The official opposition must be 'prepared to assume office'. (Prepared as in "in a position to", rather than "yeah huh, totally up for it, dude").

“For those asking how this is possible it's in Erskine May. The official opposition must be 'prepared to assume office'. Labour can't anymore”.

“Labour can no longer meet its obligations to remain as the 'official' opposition. They must stand aside.”

Will this force the rebels to form their own group and appoint a new leader in order to form a legitimate opposition? :D terrific stuff.
 
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Got a little bit more (but not much). It would seem that this is JPM's "base case" on Brexit.

JP Morgan says Scottish independence, new currency now its 'base case'

U.S. bank JP Morgan said on Wednesday it now expects Scotland to vote for independence and introduce its own currency before Britain leaves the European Union in 2019.

"Our base case is that Scotland will vote for independence and institute a new currency at that point (2019)," JP Morgan economist Malcolm Barr said in a note to clients on Wednesday.
 
danny la rouge
Sturgeon appears to have been told in no uncertain terms that the only way for Scotland to be an EU member state is...just that...to be a state. Is that your reading of this first contact?
I don't know enough yet. What we're reading at the moment is Guardian journalists' interpretation of meetings they weren't at.

If these readings turn out to be correct, and taking into consideration the JP Morgan view, then indyref2 will be more than "highly likely", and sooner rather than later.
 
More:

Can Scotland remain in the EU after Brexit? | Sionaidh Douglas-Scott

"I have made detailed legal argumentsas to why an independent Scotland should be admitted to the EU without having to go through the full accession process for new applicants. I believe those arguments continue to be persuasive, but I offer here a more general case.

[...] the EU’s very raison d’être is at issue. Could it act in such a way as to dispossess Scots of their acquired rights and EU citizenship as a result of the country using the democratic right to vote for independence? Such a move would seriously undermine the EU’s claim to be a promoter of democracy."
 
Got a little bit more (but not much). It would seem that this is JPM's "base case" on Brexit.

JP Morgan says Scottish independence, new currency now its 'base case'

U.S. bank JP Morgan said on Wednesday it now expects Scotland to vote for independence and introduce its own currency before Britain leaves the European Union in 2019.

"Our base case is that Scotland will vote for independence and institute a new currency at that point (2019)," JP Morgan economist Malcolm Barr said in a note to clients on Wednesday.
Presumably Scotland would have to get this new currency designed & ready to go before any Indyref2, yes? Correct me if I am wrong but was not Salmond not having any credible answer to what an independent Scotland would use for currency the main reason why the independence vote was lost?

Could a new interim currency for an independent Scotland before joining the € work like the Irish Punt? Before 1979 this was linked to UK £ & was same value. After joining the ERM the link was broken & an exchange rate introduced. Would that work & would the UK government allow it?
 
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Correct me if I am wrong but was not Salmond not having any credible answer to what an independent Scotland would use for currency the main reason why the independence vote was lost?
You are wrong about that.

However, I do think the SNP's currency strategy was a mistake. Not because they didn't have credible answers: they did. What they mainly had was a presentation problem. You can read the whole story here if you are feeling particularly masochistic: Will you vote for independence? Many of us who are not in the SNP felt irritated at being expected to explain a policy we didn't agree with.

The strategy they opted for in general was to not give make too many changes, so that independence wasn't scary. But the trouble with that was that if too little changed, people start to wonder why they should bother. Isn't the point of change to make differences?

The four currency options they gave were perfectly coherent, credible and workable. But their preferred option (using Sterling) was the wrong one. It made it appear that currency was something Westminster - Osborne - would have to grant. This is a tactical error. It also meant that too many economic levers had to stay at Westminster. (So what, you might say, the euro zone has the same problem visa vis national sovereignty. But if you're selling change, it's another own goal to say you don't have this change available). So those were the presentational problems. Which Salmond miraculously overcame when in the 2nd TV debate Darling stupidly lost the whole country on his one advantage by being a twat. So, the issue stopped being a problem in the public perception. Salmond didn't win it. Darling lost it.

However, and more importantly, I had a problem because it was tying the country's economic policy to Westminster in a practical way. I thought the best option was a separate currency, the Scots pound, which should probably initially be pegged to Sterling so that there wouldn't be destabilising trading (in either direction) on the currency in the launch period, possibly 18 months, but the time scale not set (at least not publicly). It would then be unpegged.

That's last time. This time different conditions apply. We await what time scale Brexit will have. We await what the economic conditions will be. We await what the terms and treaties Westminster will have negotiated. We await, what is more, the shape of the EU at the time.

New EU members states are currently expected to join the euro as a condition of entry. However, before joining eurozone they have to meet "convergence criteria". This waiting period has proven to be long and without a foreseeable end in sight in a number of cases. In the meantime, they use their own currency.

All of this is still hypothetical until we see what comes of the process Sturgeon has entered into. The stage Brexit is at when Sturgeon decides whether or not to call indyref2 will make a difference.
 
Time frame is two years from Atricle 50 triggering,to extend requires Council unanimity. Failure to agree pretty much means WTO.
Stage we are at the moment is interested parties (including Holyrood) submitting there red lines and Xmas lists to the Whitehall dept set up this week.
I would imagine Victoria Quay is working overtime.

The countries in "convergence" are only going to be marginally less pissed at Juncker than Denmark over this
 
Time frame is two years from Atricle 50 triggering
Indeed. But triggering is in the hands of the new PM, or his or her successors. The trigger date could be October or it could be 2020, or it could be never, making completion of Article 50 process 2018, 2022, or two years after never. Or two years after some other point in time.
 
Indeed. But triggering is in the hands of the new PM, or his or her successors. The trigger date could be October or it could be 2020, or it could be never, making completion of Article 50 process 2018, 2022, or two years after never. Or two years after some other point in time.
Theoretically yes.
 
Theoretically yes.
And we are unlikely to have any more clue than what is theoretically possible until the Tories have their new leader. The election of that leader will probably partly be about the way the Tories want to play Brexit, including time scales.

That's what I'm saying. We don't know that yet. We have to wait and see.
 
And we are unlikely to have any more clue than what is theoretically possible until the Tories have their new leader. The election of that leader will probably partly be about the way the Tories want to play Brexit, including time scales.

That's what I'm saying. We don't know that yet. We have to wait and see.

It is advisable though, if you have some sacred cows/worries/concerns/interests with regards relations to Europe to make your MSP/MP aware over the next couple of months.

From PMQ's I'd say salmon fisheries were more on the ball than Cameron. And the Filton MP better than the defense ministers A400M is military
 
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Article 50 will be triggered as soon as the new PM settles in, within a month.

Spain will not allow an independent Scotland to join the EU, Belgium would also block it.

A huge number of Scottish non-elites north and south of the border also voted leave. Their voice is being ignored by Sturgeon and her elite as are the non-elites all over Europe.

Sturgeon is a good politician, but not great. And if she gave a fuck about people she would not be joining the labour plotters in using this week of turmoil to further her own ends, when she could me making real and positive capital for the least well represented in Scotland and the wider UK.
 
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