Breaking News: Civil War in Gaza

[ViolentPanda]

Our Phalangist friend again, unless I'm much mistaken. I lose track of what his first ever name was....

Shrapnel?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Oh yes, PeteTheShrap or something... was that his first? or was the first mobymonster? Gawd, this is confusing, and we don't even have records of early bannings... *goes away to search archives and bring board grinding to a halt*

 

[moono]

mears;

You act as though this sad situation is all the fault or Israel and their big bad friend the US.

Bullshit

You'd have to be really out of it not to know that the entire Palestinian tragedy is directly the doing of the US of A. Shit, America is currently supporting and financing a coup in Palestine. It's freely admitted everywhere you care to look.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I'm not putting words in your mouth, speak your opinion. Should they or should they not? Fine I will give you my opinion. Egypt is the lesser of some evils in the region, if you want me to expand on the "evils" later please do tell.

I've spoken my opinion, you appear unable to listen/comprehend.
Unsurprising, as your own opinions operate purely to service your political beliefs .

Egypt is more secular and more open than other countries in the region.

To use a pbman-ism, are you smoking crack? The Egyptian government has a veneer of secularism that covers a collaboration with and appeasement of the most reactionary elements of Egyptian Islamism. The same elements your beloved country spent over 30 years post WW2 covertly funding, training and arming.

The government doesn't go on about apocalypse and destroying Israel.

How would you know? If the Economist doesn't run a story for you to construct your opinion around you don't tend to have a clue, usually.

So yes, I do think they warrant our financial support. But if Mubarek puts his son in charge, if it turns into another Syria or Saudi Arabia than fuck them.

Yeah, right, fuck them.

You fucking plum.

 

[ViolentPanda]

mears;


You'd have to be really out of it not to know that the entire Palestinian tragedy is directly the doing of the US of A. Shit, America is currently supporting and financing a coup in Palestine. It's freely admitted everywhere you care to look.

Mears has never proved particularly capable of drawing his own conclusions. he tends to like pre-digested "talking points" spat out by rightwing journos and pols to construct his worldview around, which is why he comes across as such a buffoon and an empathy-free douchebag.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Mears has never proved particularly capable of drawing his own conclusions. he tends to like pre-digested "talking points" spat out by rightwing journos and pols to construct his worldview around, which is why he comes across as such a buffoon and an empathy-free douchebag.

which is why he should be banned permenantly from these forums, i have no wish to see him banned ont he wider urban but here he's just tiediously repeativly bollocks...

 

[ViolentPanda]

which is why he should be banned permenantly from these forums, i have no wish to see him banned ont he wider urban but here he's just tiediously repeativly bollocks...

Hey, he does have some comedy value.

I mean, that shit about Egypt being "more secular and more open", that was hilarious. They have one of the highest detention rates for "political crimes" in the ME and they're "more open".

Perhaps mears meant "more open" in an Orwellian sense?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Hey, he does have some comedy value.

I mean, that shit about Egypt being "more secular and more open", that was hilarious. They have one of the highest detention rates for "political crimes" in the ME and they're "more open".

Perhaps mears meant "more open" in an Orwellian sense?

or in the neocon explotiative sense....

 

[mears]

mears;


You'd have to be really out of it not to know that the entire Palestinian tragedy is directly the doing of the US of A. Shit, America is currently supporting and financing a coup in Palestine. It's freely admitted everywhere you care to look.

I disagree completely. The ones at most fault right now is the Palestinian leadership. They are not children, no one forced them to turn guns on eachother. They blew it themselves.

 

[mears]

I've spoken my opinion, you appear unable to listen/comprehend.
Unsurprising, as your own opinions operate purely to service your political beliefs .

To use a pbman-ism, are you smoking crack? The Egyptian government has a veneer of secularism that covers a collaboration with and appeasement of the most reactionary elements of Egyptian Islamism. The same elements your beloved country spent over 30 years post WW2 covertly funding, training and arming.

How would you know? If the Economist doesn't run a story for you to construct your opinion around you don't tend to have a clue, usually.

Yeah, right, fuck them.

You fucking plum.

So you think Egypt should be isolated the way the US isolates Iran and Syria. I don't think so, isolationg Egypt, not giving aid will further enhance the influence of the Muslim Brotherhood. But if Egypt does turn into a hereditary autucracy than it must should be abondoned.

You see, no personal insults. You should try it as well.

 

[mears]

mears;


You'd have to be really out of it not to know that the entire Palestinian tragedy is directly the doing of the US of A. Shit, America is currently supporting and financing a coup in Palestine. It's freely admitted everywhere you care to look.

So tell me where to look?

 

[mears]

None, but the people of the middle east deserve all the help we can muster. Aid for farms, factories and trade agreements, less F-16's and security training.

Who the fuck do you think paid the salary of the Palestinian Authority to come into work and twiddle their thumbs?

Right, Iran should spend money not on arms but infrastructure building now in Gaza. Saudi Arabia should start companies in gaza instead of giving handouts to families of suicide bombers.

I think we are getting somewhere.

 

[Luther Blissett]

Who the fuck do you think paid the salary of the Palestinian Authority to come into work and twiddle their thumbs?

Right, Iran should spend money not on arms but infrastructure building now in Gaza. Saudi Arabia should start companies in gaza instead of giving handouts to families of suicide bombers.

I think we are getting somewhere.

It's really not as sensational as you're making out. US-dwelling Palestian businessmen have tried to invest both time and money in Palestinian territories, but have experienced great difficulty getting through all the external checkpoints and obtaining the necessary permits from Israel to manage their businesses and actually get to their offices, etc.

The Israeli government has effectively frozen visitation and re-entry of foreign nationals of Palestinian origin to the West Bank and Gaza. We go to Ramallah to speak with two coordinators of the “Campaign for the Right of Entry and Re-Entry to the Occupied Palestinian Territory.” We’re also joined by a leading Israeli human rights attorney and a Palestinian-American filmmaker recently detained by Israeli officials and deported.

[...]

SAM BAHOUR: Well, we have, many of us, the bulk being Palestinian Americans, but foreign nationals of different countries, have come back or come to Palestine following the Oslo Peace Accords to contribute to building a different kind of Palestinian reality, one free of Israeli occupation and one that can merge into the nation-states of the world. And we've been here during the good and bad.

We have only been allowed by the Israelis to remain in Palestine with our families and our businesses and our livelihood via tourist visas. That’s the only mechanism that Israel allowed foreign nationals, people who, like myself and like my colleague Anita, who don't have Palestinian residency, Israeli-issued ID cards to come. My wife does have an Israeli-issued ID card, and many other spouses of foreign nationals do, as well. Israel has allowed us to apply for family unification, but they refuse to process those applications, so we’ve been here for ten, fifteen, some of us twenty and thirty years, coming in and out of the country every three months, as the only way Israel would allow us to.

Following the January legislative elections for the Palestinian Authority and the emergence of a Palestinian government led by Hamas, Israel took an unannounced measure of denying entry to all of those that left the country to renew their tourist visas. Upon re-entry, they were told they can no longer come back, under the premise, most of the time, of security. And basically, this has resulted into hundreds, if not thousands, of families being separated, as well as businesses being separated from their owners.

We are now in a phase where, after nine months of a very global campaign that mobilized people to speak out against this policy of emptying Palestine from Palestinians and foreign nationals, that for the first time ever Israel last month actually documented a policy reversal. That's what it was being proclaimed to be. In reality, what we have is a document that puts in writing Israelis’ human rights abuses and violation of international humanitarian law. Even post this new announcement of a reversal of this denial-entry program, we're seeing people who have been refused entry every single day. We had yet another one yesterday from the Ben Gurion Airport. So things have not changed; just the opposite.

The violations of international humanitarian law have now been documented by the Israeli occupation, and they very clearly say that not only, as you said in your introduction, that the visitation to the Occupied Territories is now restricted, but more importantly maybe are the 150,000 to 200,000 Palestinians that are demanding residency rights to remain with their families, and that’s completely omitted from the letter and basically being ignored by the Israelis completely, even though international law stipulates that families should not be separated under occupation. The occupying power, Israel, has obligations under international law, and they must follow those obligations. Otherwise, we have the law of the jungle, and that's what Israel has created today: a reality of the law of the jungle.

And we're asking our home countries, be it the US or otherwise, to take a stance not to allow Israel to continue to discriminate against their citizens when they’re entering Israel, because today we are being discriminated against. If you are an American citizen, such as I am, trying to enter at the Israeli border, if they know that we are from Palestinian ethnicity or that we're heading towards going to the West Bank, we are either denied entry or entry is restricted. If you're a Jewish American, or otherwise, coming to Israel or even coming to live in the illegal settlements spread out throughout the West Bank, you don't go through these same restrictions.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/01/18/1621247

 

[moono]

mears;

I disagree completely. The ones at most fault right now is the Palestinian leadership. They are not children, no one forced them to turn guns on eachother. They blew it themselves.

I'm not so sure that Fatah factions weren't 'forced' to attempt to assassinate Haniyeh, twice in one week. You did know that , mears, right ?

They were almost certainly paid though. That's the way that Fatah has functioned. Hamas is the antidote to that and, even for secular observers, have moral high ground enough to train their judicial artillery on Gazan criminals and collaborators. The West Bank is now the prize. Israelis acknowledged this on last night's tv. Personally, I believe that discipline will always win, and that's what Hamas have .

We'll see though. It is written- but not available to everybody. Lol.

 

[ViolentPanda]

So you think Egypt should be isolated the way the US isolates Iran and Syria.

Third time: Don't put words in my mouth.
I think that if the US gives aid to Egypt (or Israel or anyone else for that matter) they should do so through a non-tied system, and one that doesn't allow so many "dual use" purchases with that aid.

I don't think so, isolationg Egypt, not giving aid will further enhance the influence of the Muslim Brotherhood. But if Egypt does turn into a hereditary autucracy than it must should be abondoned.

Trans:
We'll pretend they're a democracy until they're no longer a geo-strategic asset, then we'll invent some shit about how their democracy isn't credible.

You see, no personal insults. You should try it as well.

I'm not minded to make the effort for someoe as wilfully ignorant as yourself.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Who the fuck do you think paid the salary of the Palestinian Authority to come into work and twiddle their thumbs?

Tut tut mears, it's "all America all the time" in your empty head, isn't it?

Google is your (probably only) friend.

 

[tangentlama]

historical thread from early 2006, showing Fatah's ongoing opposition to Hamas, from before and after Hamas' election to Government