Braintree vs Hamlet, Tues 15th Feb 2023

[Roger D]

You have to admire teams like Oxford. Their crowds are about 17% the size of Hamlet's and they're already 23 points ahead.

Oxford City are company number 3127905

CLUB OWNERSHIP

www.oxfordcityfc.co.uk

Here are their accounts.

OXFORD CITY FOOTBALL CLUB (TRADING) LIMITED filing history - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

OXFORD CITY FOOTBALL CLUB (TRADING) LIMITED - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity

find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk

A quick look shows that, whilst they seem perfectly stable, their operational model is a world apart from the one used by the Hamlet.

 

[B.I.G]

As for the financial position of the club, if individuals are keen to find out then I recommend that they invest in the club and become a shareholder which would allow them to become privy to the full accounts of the club, as opposed to the Unaudited Abridged Accounts available through Companies House. Hopefully that would allow people to make informed rather than speculative statements on matters financial?

People might benefit from you explaining how they might obtain the aforementioned shareholding.

 

[Pink Panther]

A marked point standing on the terraces on Tuesday night was that for neither goal did the players come over to celebrate with the dozen or so supporters, a sizeable number of whom were directors or club officials, stood behind the goal. Whether this was because after each goal they were keen to restart and get back on the attack PDQ or for other reasons, I won’t speculate. I don’t pretend to read the mind of players.

Given that we were still behind after each goal scored, I would think everyone just wanted to get back to their own half ASAP. I can't imagine there's anything more to read than that.

 

[Paula_G]

Peter bust a gut in a truly terrible team that was on a run of form worse than the current team. I'd say he was a success.

Did he transform the team? No. Did he do his best in a pretty hopeless situation? Yes. I'm not sure Lionel Messi could have transformed that team mind. Most of them had long since given up and were cruising towards the end of season. With honourable exceptions.

Edited to say I had managed to blank their names out so I googled them to see what happened to them. Rickey subsequently played for Slough Town. Their website states he enjoyed a spell on loan at Hamlet from QPR. I'm glad he enjoyed it, I don't think anyone associated with Hamlet remembers his 45 minute cameo with affection.

Was rather terrified the interviewers on the Crouch doc might ask me to describe some of the games he played in for us. Apart from the 1-0 defeat at Harrow when both of the home centre halves had to go off after a clash of heads and an exceptional goal from Danny Carroll away on the Heybridge cabbage patch in an unlucky draw, a lot of games have faded into the mists of memory.

 

[Paula_G]

Given that we were still behind after each goal scored, I would think everyone just wanted to get back to their own half ASAP. I can't imagine there's anything more to read than that.

Which is why I didn’t.

 

[Paula_G]

People might benefit from you explaining how they might obtain the aforementioned shareholding.

I’d say speak to the club via any of the usual media. The best point of contact would be via the club secretary on the contacts page of the website Contact Dulwich Hamlet FC

 

[scousedom]

Does anything prevent shareholders sharing the fuller set of accounts with non-shareholders?

 

[Roger D]

It is privileged information You certainly wouldn't be popular. Not sure on the exact law but, from memory, they stress at shareholder meetings the information is privileged.

Clearly some things may get discussed the club would not want public, due to the legal requirements to inform shareholders of risk to the company etc.

The Company Secretary is probably the person to contact re shares. Note the last two releases have been £500 minimum purchase. There was discussion about not issuing new shares after the agreement to transfer to 50% + 1 Supporter Trust ownership was signed, to avoid a moving target. No idea whether it happened.

 

[Moroccan Sunset]

People might benefit from you explaining how they might obtain the aforementioned shareholding.

I’d say speak to the club via any of the usual media. The best point of contact would be via the club secretary on the contacts page of the website Contact Dulwich Hamlet FC

While we're at it: how does one get on the board? Is it shareholders only? Is it invite only?

 

[scousedom]

While we're at it: how does one get on the board? Is it shareholders only? Is it invite only?

You need to be the spokesperson for a major bookmakers as I understand it.

 

[editor]

Oxford City are company number 3127905

CLUB OWNERSHIP

www.oxfordcityfc.co.uk

Here are their accounts.

OXFORD CITY FOOTBALL CLUB (TRADING) LIMITED filing history - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

OXFORD CITY FOOTBALL CLUB (TRADING) LIMITED - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity

find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk

A quick look shows that, whilst they seem perfectly stable, their operational model is a world apart from the one used by the Hamlet.

There's plenty of other teams with crowds far, far smaller than Hamlet's who aren't sitting at the bottom of the form table with truly abysmal records, neither are they fortunate to be attracting relatively affluent crowds.

 

[scousedom]

It is privileged information You certainly wouldn't be popular. Not sure on the exact law but, from memory, they stress at shareholder meetings the information is privileged.

Clearly some things may get discussed the club would not want public, due to the legal requirements to inform shareholders of risk to the company etc.

The Company Secretary is probably the person to contact re shares. Note the last two releases have been £500 minimum purchase. There was discussion about not issuing new shares after the agreement to transfer to 50% + 1 Supporter Trust ownership was signed, to avoid a moving target. No idea whether it happened.

I should know this but shamefully I don’t… If DHST is a shareholder can it share the full accounts with its members?

 

[Roger D]

I don't think there's a requirement to be a shareholder but it would be a bit odd if someone on the limited company board didn't have sufficient confidence to risk £500 (if the opportunity arises.)

The appointments to the limited company are subject to usual legal shareholder approval.

I believe the football committee / board / whatever it's called now is by appointment. If so, that's not new. It always was in the late twentieth century, after the Limited Company was founded. I'm not aware of it changing. There is one very significant change, the Trust get to nominate their representatives now.

Edited to say ignore the bit about the football committee. I think I reverted to the 1990's and don't think it exists now. The trust nominate people to the Limited Company.

 

[Roger D]

There's plenty of other teams with crowds far, far smaller than Hamlet's who aren't sitting at the bottom of the form table with truly abysmal records, neither are they fortunate to be attracting relatively affluent crowds.

I've stated I believe we are underperforming against budget. I just don't see what crowd size has to do with it. Total income and expenditure is the acid test of whether or not you are over or under achieving. Crowd size and income are rarely directly correlated in this league...

A club with two fans and a ten million quid budget would not be over achieving if they won Conny South.

 

[editor]

. I just don't see what crowd size has to do with it. Total income and expenditure is the acid test of whether or not you are over or under achieving. Crowd size and income are rarely directly correlated in this league...

A club with two fans and a ten million quid budget would not be over achieving if they won Conny South.

OK, then we'll have to agree to disagree. I think that if a team is doubling, tripling, quadrupling or whatever the word is for seven times the size of their opponent's attendance week after week, then that would make a fucking huge difference to the budget available, especially if they're attracting an affluent crowd who are able to spend freely in the bar and at the merch stall.

 

[Moroccan Sunset]

I don't think there's a requirement to be a shareholder but it would be a bit odd if someone on the limited company board didn't have sufficient confidence to risk £500 (if the opportunity arises.)

The appointments to the limited company are subject to usual legal shareholder approval.

I believe the football committee / board / whatever it's called now is by appointment. If so, that's not new. It always was in the late twentieth century, after the Limited Company was founded. I'm not aware of it changing. There is one very significant change, the Trust get to nominate their representatives now.

Did Crouch pay £500 for his place on the board? (Know you don't know, but one for those who do.)

 

[gnar182]

Get the fella with the £12 burgers back and negotiate a cut, we’ll be loaded in no time.

 

[Roger D]

Did Crouch pay £500 for his place on the board? (Know you don't know, but one for those who do.)

Peter Crouch was never a Director of the Limited Company. His name did not appear on the last shareholder register I saw.

To the best of my knowledge he was never formally on the football club board / committee. Even if he was, I wouldn't particularly expect them to be shareholders. They run the football side not the limited company. Also, whilst not true of Peter, as volunteers / club employees you will have a range of income brackets and I'm not sure it would be fair to expect anyone who passed through the football committee to stump up £500.

Edited to say ignore the bit about the football committee as I think I reverted back to the 90's and I'm not sure it exists now

 

[gnar182]

Did Crouch pay £500 for his place on the board? (Know you don't know, but one for those who do.)

Was he ever actually part of the board?

Edit: Roger beat me to it. Curse these chubby thumbs.

 

[editor]

Peter Crouch was never a Director of the Limited Company. His name did not appear on the last shareholder register I saw.

To the best of my knowledge he was never formally on the football club board / committee. Even if he was, I wouldn't particularly expect them to be shareholders. They run the football side not the limited company. Also, whilst not true of Peter, as volunteers / club employees you will have a range of income brackets and I'm not sure it would be fair to expect anyone who passed through the football committee to stump up £500.

I wonder how much Crouch made from that TV documentary which Hamlet kindly provided the free backdrop to? Be more than £500, I reckon. Kerrching!

 

[Moroccan Sunset]

Peter Crouch was never a Director of the Limited Company. His name did not appear on the last shareholder register I saw.

To the best of my knowledge he was never formally on the football club board / committee. Even if he was, I wouldn't particularly expect them to be shareholders. They run the football side not the limited company. Also, whilst not true of Peter, as volunteers / club employees you will have a range of income brackets and I'm not sure it would be fair to expect anyone who passed through the football committee to stump up £500.

Fair enough. That was gonna be the point I was going to make (re: £500/range of incomes).

So I thought it was just the board running things now? (Hence why I thought from your post that you had to pay £500 to have any say in proceedings.) Who's on the football committee? I've got a programme here: is it all the people listed as 'Football Officials'?

 

[Moroccan Sunset]

I wonder how much Crouch made from that TV documentary which Hamlet kindly provided the free backdrop to? Be more than £500, I reckon. Kerrching!

Tbf, we would have made money out of it, too. We used each other.

 

[editor]

Tbf, we would have made money out of it, too. We used each other.

Did Hamlet charge for the use of facilities? Did Discovery pay the club a fee?
I was told that we didn't get any money at all for hosting Crouch's profile-raising show, but there again I was told that he'd been appointed as a director which apparently wasn't true.

 

[Roger D]

Fair enough. That was gonna be the point I was going to make (re: £500/range of incomes).

So I thought it was just the board running things now? (Hence why I thought from your post that you had to pay £500 to have any say in proceedings.) Who's on the football committee? I've got a programme here: is it all the people listed as 'Football Officials'?

I had just logged on to say I think I was talking rubbish and the Football Committee has now gone. That was a 90's thing when we had hands off owners. Apologies all.

Re £500. I don't think anyone would be expected to stump up if it would be problematic but Directors usually hold some shares. The Trust representatives wouldn't really be covered by that expectation. They represent a shareholding worth well over £500.

Current limited company officials: -

Dulwich Hamlet Football Club Limited - Ownership

Company Name: Dulwich Hamlet Football Club LimitedRegistered in England and Wales Number 02840930Company Type: Private Limited Company – Limited by SharesRegist

www.pitchero.com

 

[domestos]

The Orange Tree on Cressing Road is your best bet, it was a designated away supporters pub for the Trophy game 6 years ago and we were made welcome. There's not much else near the ground and it isn't a great town for pubs.

For the next time although it's a long time since I've been there - the Boars Head was a decent traditional dimpled pint mugs pub. Lots of pubs have permanently closed in Braintree

 

[The new one]

That sums crouch up a nobody within the club last season St Albans away shaking everyone hand with the cameras behind him following ever move he made

 

[liamdhfc]

Oxford City are company number 3127905

CLUB OWNERSHIP

www.oxfordcityfc.co.uk

Here are their accounts.

OXFORD CITY FOOTBALL CLUB (TRADING) LIMITED filing history - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

OXFORD CITY FOOTBALL CLUB (TRADING) LIMITED - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity

find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk

A quick look shows that, whilst they seem perfectly stable, their operational model is a world apart from the one used by the Hamlet.

Very interesting accounts. Negative shareholders funds increasing year on year and almost £1million of loans of which around £800k quite recent (Covid?) Large debtors figure owed by a related charity strengthens the numbers. Seems to have been owed to them for years now.
It’s the business models that allow clubs to pay more than Dulwich and the average attendance has no bearing whatsoever on a club’s playing budget.
Be interesting to see their 2022 accounts that should be filed shortly

 

[Roger D]

The FY 2021 Y/E accounts declare £180k of Covid money from the government in the notes.

The charity entry caught my eye too. Curiously the debt owed rose dramatically in a year the accounts carried a note saying Oxford City relied on creditors good will to trade. (May 2018 accounts from memory.)

 

[liamdhfc]

The FY 2021 Y/E accounts declare £180k of Covid money from the government in the notes.

The charity entry caught my eye too. Curiously the debt owed rose dramatically in a year the accounts carried a note saying Oxford City relied on creditors good will to trade. (May 2018 accounts from memory.)

And I believe they are busy offloading players at the moment. Sure the keeper has gone to Dartford and Iaciafano is available

 

[Roger D]

I should know this but shamefully I don’t… If DHST is a shareholder can it share the full accounts with its members?

Don't know for sure but they'd be daft to. The Trust, who have a substantial shareholding, has access to information far more sensitive than the average shareholder. The shareholders have access to privileged information. I'm a shareholder and have no idea whether the budget has been cut this season. The Trust members on the limited company board almost certainly know. They have access to live information. Shareholders will be told after the event. Rightly so too.

If the Trust goes around releasing privileged information, I'd be very surprised if they kept their seats on the limited company board. If it was your company, would you want people on the board who represent a body happy to leak privileged / sensitive information?

I stress that's a hypothetical comment. I don't believe the Trust would release privileged information.