editor
hiraethified
Even taking in our legacy issues, I'm struggling to see how a team that is attracting crowds up to seven times larger than other teams in the league would end up with a 'bottom six budget.'
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Braintree vs Hamlet, Tues 15th Feb 2023
- Thread starter The new one
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baleboy_93
Well-Known Member
Through standing with fans during games, regular chats with the management team, this forum does get read by members, as do our social media channels. There is usually at least two board members at every game too and they can see things first hand
Moroccan Sunset
Well-Known Member
That was purely hypothetical. I'm not saying we have or will have a bottom six budget. It was just to illustrate the point that Barnes could finish outside the top 10 and still have done a good job.
Moroccan Sunset
Well-Known Member
Through standing with fans during games, regular chats with the management team, this forum does get read by members, as do our social media channels. There is usually at least two board members at every game too and they can see things first hand
Thanks Tom. Was intrigued to know if anyone from the board has a look on here.
Two games to come against teams below us this month, those are must win, we allowed Weymouth (bottom at that point) to get their first home win of the season, we cannot afford to lose those two games to Hampton and Concord. If we can get 6 points from the 12 left to get this month then that would make a big difference. If we finish this busy month with a single point......woah.
Just to be clear I have no objection to trying some youngsters from a higher level, if they can be found. I wouldn't want to go too far down that route though. Experience playing in crucial matches could be important at the end of the season. They are probably more high risk than an experienced player too, if we can find any of them mind. For every Carl Emberson or Peter Crouch there's lads like the two loanees from QPR we sacked at half time on their debut.
I'm not sure why the budget has seemingly been cut, I'm simply not privy to that information. I am confident if there is slack it will be released to try and keep the club at tier two. If the club had been safe it would have made sense to hold it back for next season There probably is a shortfall though, I seem to recall the Chairman's notes cited a loss of about £40k due to rail strikes, earlier this season. That wouldn't have been budgeted for as no-one knew the strike dates when budgets were being set. I think there's been more rail strike impacted match days since then too.
I'm not sure why the budget has seemingly been cut, I'm simply not privy to that information. I am confident if there is slack it will be released to try and keep the club at tier two. If the club had been safe it would have made sense to hold it back for next season There probably is a shortfall though, I seem to recall the Chairman's notes cited a loss of about £40k due to rail strikes, earlier this season. That wouldn't have been budgeted for as no-one knew the strike dates when budgets were being set. I think there's been more rail strike impacted match days since then too.
scousedom
Well-Known Member
Thing is. If DHFC get 2,000 at average £10 a go and £8 is costs cos London and our ground, that’s £4,000. Plus a tenner a head spend of which say 50% is costs gets you to £9,000.
If you are charging £15 (about average for the league) and costs lower at £5 (because not London and not our ground) and spend per head is half that at DHFC (fiver a head) you only need 720 people to make the same net.
And as has been said above, you’ve probably got a sugar daddy. Maybe a not so nice one too.
Former Oxford City FC president jailed for fraud
The former president of Oxford City Football Club is jailed for 12 years and seven months after pleading guilty to a multi-million pound fraud in the US.
www.bbc.co.uk
(I know those numbers will be way off btw. But just illustrating that the headline gate potentially tells you very little about net financials.)
editor
hiraethified
Err, that was seven years ago and he quit the club back in 2015. What possible relevance does it have to the current club's set up?And as has been said above, you’ve probably got a sugar daddy. Maybe a not so nice one too.
Former Oxford City FC president jailed for fraud
The former president of Oxford City Football Club is jailed for 12 years and seven months after pleading guilty to a multi-million pound fraud in the US.
scousedom
Well-Known Member
The other not small item that wouldn’t have been accounted for would have been severance pay to GR and team. No idea what it would be. I think it’s been comforted on here as existing but not the amount (and that’s only right).
scousedom
Well-Known Member
Same chairman still.
But it was more an illustration of the potential for bad sugar daddies in genera not at that club, now, in particular. That you’d said “Oxford” merely meant they were in my head and so were the first club I typed into Google when looking for examples of dodgy owners.
editor
hiraethified
Not sure what relevance that has.
Moroccan Sunset
Well-Known Member
Blimey. Are we counting Crouch as one of the better loans?
I'd managed to wipe Rickey Browne and Marcel Nugent out of my brain up until I read your post. If I get nightmares tonight, I'm blaming you.
scousedom
Well-Known Member
The guy was prepared to ask no questions about how the other guy was getting his money is still in charge.
If we were owned by that guy, and our Chairman was on his watch, and he was carted off to jail for a decade for swindling pensioners life-savings, would you not expect the Chairman to stand down with him? At Hanlet of all places???
But as I said. It’s an example of sugar daddies in general and their not always being so sweet. Give me genuine fan ownership anyway. But failing that give me a simple, honest daddy (as we have now).
No more Clasper is the daddy chat please.
scousedom
Well-Known Member
Yeah I was about to petition for un-gendering of the terminology, having read it back and shuddered.
editor
hiraethified
Fraudsters don't generally tell their associates that they're fraudsters and there's no shame in being taking in. And if the fans decided to stick with the chairmen - who apparently was completely innocent - then that's their choice. He's clearly doing something right given the miniscule budget they must have.
After Hamlet's volte-face about gambling I don't see us inhabiting any special kind of higher moral ground these days. Fraudsters and the gambling industry is all about taking money off the vulnerable, and we were happy to facilitate the promotion of the face of Paddy Power.
scousedom
Well-Known Member
This is only really agreeing with my underlying point which is that fan ownership should always be first preference.
Peter bust a gut in a truly terrible team that was on a run of form worse than the current team. I'd say he was a success.
Did he transform the team? No. Did he do his best in a pretty hopeless situation? Yes. I'm not sure Lionel Messi could have transformed that team mind. Most of them had long since given up and were cruising towards the end of season. With honourable exceptions.
Edited to say I had managed to blank their names out so I googled them to see what happened to them. Rickey subsequently played for Slough Town. Their website states he enjoyed a spell on loan at Hamlet from QPR. I'm glad he enjoyed it, I don't think anyone associated with Hamlet remembers his 45 minute cameo with affection.
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Suspect it's worse than that tbh. I don't know when budgets are set but I'd guess it's around now, to give managers time to start work on retaining key players.
A year(ish) ago would anyone have forecast Ukraine would still be going on? With all the economic fall out we have seen. You would have built in big energy price increases but would you have forecast them to be as repeatedly severe as they have been? Would anyone have forecast double figure inflation, with the ramifications that brings for your cost base? Would anyone have built in Trussonomics blowing up the economy and rapid interest rate rises?
The evidence of my eyes out this way shows alcohol sales etc are significantly down as people cut expenditure. Has that happened at Hamlet, where we all know discretionary expenditure is important to the economic plans. If it has, would that have been forecast?
Many leisure / discretionary based businesses forecast 2022 would see an improvement on 2021. A lot are now reporting the year / cost of living crisis was even more challenging than 2021. (Out this way the Watercress Line steam railway recently hit headlines for announcing drastic cutbacks to ensure survival.)
What I would say is, under Ben, Hamlet's forecasting has usually been cautious. It probably was for 22/23. If Hamlet are struggling to hit budget - and at the moment that seems to be speculation not fact - I suspect other more aggressively budgeted clubs will be really struggling. No doubt the sugar daddies will be sinking in even more money to cover any issues.
I'm not privy to Oxford's wage bill but I believe there are some pretty wealthy people around the club. It may not be as small as gate levels would lead people to suspect.
editor
hiraethified
I'd argue that Hamlet have a far more affluent crowd than many in our division and just about every other club is struggling with the very same financial issues. And yet here we are, firmly rooted to the bottom of the form table with just one point in six games.
AveryDave
Well-Known Member
Is there another club in our League who haven’t got a benefactor or group of backers that can make a decision to put their hands in their personal pockets if the manager comes to them and asks for funding outside of a budget? Even if they’re the likes of Parmenter at Dover?
It feels like our circumstances, as entirely understandable as they are given the history that’s got us here, are different to pretty much everyone else we’re competing against?
It feels like our circumstances, as entirely understandable as they are given the history that’s got us here, are different to pretty much everyone else we’re competing against?
There's no doubt the club is underperforming on the pitch right now. I'm not denying that. The posting you quoted was looking for reasons why there may be a budget challenge, not trying to justify being close to the bottom and in an awful run of form. I don't believe for a second the club has the sixth lowest budget in the league.
I would query whether certain clubs are facing the same challenges? Missed budgets aren't an issue when a Directors Loan will sort it all out. The last accounts I saw for one high flying team appeared to show £300k in Directors Loans. I strongly suspect their next results will show that figure has increased. I'm prepared to bet any budget shortfall at Hamlet is well south of 300k. One side is seemingly having to make cutbacks due to the financial reality of life in 2023. The other is almost certainly happily overspending again, hoping the loans never get called in.
Whatever money there was this season clearly wasn't spent well. The management team responsible paid a heavy price for it. Anyone who spoke to me at Farnborough knows my opinion on going into 2022/23 with Gavin in situ...
Possibly Concord? There were changes there last season and the money going in seems to have either gone or been seriously cut back. Possibly Hungerford given their Chairman is off, though they were low payers so he may not have been sinking money in.
I know nothing about Cheshunt but they must be another candidate?
Off the top of my head, that's probably it.
Paula_G
Flitting in & out like Tinkerbell on Meth
A marked point standing on the terraces on Tuesday night was that for neither goal did the players come over to celebrate with the dozen or so supporters, a sizeable number of whom were directors or club officials, stood behind the goal. Whether this was because after each goal they were keen to restart and get back on the attack PDQ or for other reasons, I won’t speculate. I don’t pretend to read the mind of players.
Paula_G
Flitting in & out like Tinkerbell on Meth
As for the financial position of the club, if individuals are keen to find out then I recommend that they invest in the club and become a shareholder which would allow them to become privy to the full accounts of the club, as opposed to the Unaudited Abridged Accounts available through Companies House. Hopefully that would allow people to make informed rather than speculative statements on matters financial?
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