London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
Yep, WW2 is a classic; 'we' won the war despite 3 out of 4 German troops dying on the Eastern Front.
Boycotting the UN Racism Conference
- Thread starter spring-peeper
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frogwoman
Let them eat newts
Also how many people know that in transnistria for eg. or in crimea, 15% of the non-jewish population (russian and ukrainians) lost their lives because of evil fash and their evil racial theories. The role of other countries such as romania in the whole business has been ignored, and i think people like Goldhagen have a lot to answer for for perpetrating the myth of "evil germans vs jews/everyone else"
frogwoman
Let them eat newts
I've got a lot to say on thisd subject btw cos its one that totally gets me going.
i think the religious/esoteric view of the holocaust as something "uncomprehendable" has a lot to answer for as well. It is totally fucking comprehendable, if you treat it as something outside time and history you are not gonna stop it from happening again, and again, and again.
i think the religious/esoteric view of the holocaust as something "uncomprehendable" has a lot to answer for as well. It is totally fucking comprehendable, if you treat it as something outside time and history you are not gonna stop it from happening again, and again, and again.
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
I agree, the presentation of WW2 in general and the holocaust in particular is absolutely fascinating. Views from outside the Anglo Saxon or even the western world - like Ahmedinajad's - serve to remind me of how narrowly mainstream society looks at that period.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
The difference between Ahmedinajad's anti-semitism and Nick Griffin's racism, though, being that Ahmedinajad didn't go into politics specifically to pursue an anti-semitic goal. Well, I would assume not, anyway.
He's an opportunistic anti-semite. Israel is a political enemy and he's quite happy, along with a lot of other people, to play to anything that might harm their position. The Israeli government and supporters do make political use of the Holocaust and anti-semitic conspiracy theories questioning that are an easy route of attack, if people are prepared to believe them.
This is of course a scummy way to behave and a tactic that actively hurts the prospects of any sort of justice in the region, though he doesn't care because he's a cunt who's quite happy to run a government that also, say, hangs gays from cranes to appease "religious hardliners". But his primary motivation is not in my judgement an anti-semitic one.
Barking_Mad
Non sibi sed omnibus
Corax
Luke 5:16
Have now.
Equal parts accurate/insightful and disturbingly theocentric imo. Given that he's president of a theocracy the second is hardly surprising though.
The speech itself is anti-zionist but not anti-semitic.
frogwoman
Let them eat newts
having said that about the "evil germans" thing.
How many people, who know about the holocaust, also know about the genocide of the herero people in german sw africa (now namibia) by the germans shortly before WWI (1910-1911)?
Some of the same ideas, and same people, were involved. It wasn't "merely" the killing off of a "barbaric tribe" as if that would make it any better - it was systematic, there was experimentation, people were herded into places like "shark island" and shot, there were very very few survivors - it was a systematic attempt at exterminating an entire race.
The denial both by the successive gov'ts of germany and the apartheid SA authorities is absolutely revolting. Namibia is where my mum grew up and it's also a place i have many happy memories going on holiday, as a kid, and when i watched a documentary and discovered that in the desert with the sand dunes there was probably a mass grave under each one, ive not been able to look at it in the same way
It is widely seen in historical research as a "trial run" of the holocaust, and while it wasn't carried out by a "fascist state" most of the ideas that led to the development of fascism was already in place, and that's why imo fascism is a continuation of imperailist and right wing views, taken to an extreme - but how much of an extreme that it is inconcievable today?
frogwoman
Let them eat newts
ah cheers - it was a few years now since i watched the documentary
good to see they've recognised it
not apologied though ... which i can understand - they dont want to pay any reparations, doesnt make it right tho
Yeah, he pisses away any credibility he might have had with all his sky pixie blah-blah. The man's a brain donor. But so too are Blair, Bush, Brown, et al, though they usually have the sense not to rant about it in public.
Oh, no, I agree entirely, I'm just pointing out that just a firebrand uses a platform to say some relatively mild statements, it doesn't mean that they're not nasty any more. (And for that matter if Tory party leader had ever offered Nick Griffin a safe seat in return for defecting, I wouldn't be surprised if he did a volte-face and said "you know what I said about Muslims? Well...I don't think I mind them as much as I used to so long as they recognise our heritage (or some shite)"...).
I don't think Pres A cares any more or less about the Palestinians than, say, Tony Blair does (although I'm willing to believe that he's an observant enough Muslim to be really ticked off by not being about to go the Haram al-Sherif).
Corax
Luke 5:16
Don't get me wrong. I'm not anti-religion; I'm a Quaker(ish) - but there's no place for statements such asYeah, he pisses away any credibility he might have had with all his sky pixie blah-blah. The man's a brain donor. But so too are Blair, Bush, Brown, et al, though they usually have the sense not to rant about it in public.
This smacks of compulsory religious adherence which, as well as being indefensibly fash and a sure route to oppression, is ridiculously counter-productive and utterly unworkable.
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
This sounds interesting....
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