Boycotting the UN Racism Conference

[Combustible]

Not a good start...
link

The quotes from Ahmadinejad don't seem anti-semitic to me. And he acknowledges the terrible persecution of the Jews in Europe which is at odds with the claims he is a Holocaust denier and certainly would be at odds with typical anti-semitic views

 

[Dr Jon]

The quotes from Ahmadinejad don't seem anti-semitic to me. And he acknowledges the terrible persecution of the Jews in Europe which is at odds with the claims he is a Holocaust denier and certainly would be at odds with typical anti-semitic views

Indeed. Sounds like the usual "anti-semite!" hysteria which erupts when anyone criticises Israel.

 

[Spion]

"Following World War II they resorted to military aggressions to make an entire nation homeless under the pretext of Jewish suffering,"

True

"And they sent migrants from Europe, the United States and other parts of the world in order to establish a totally racist government in the occupied Palestine," he said.

True

"And in fact, in compensation for the dire consequences of racism in Europe, they helped bring to power the most cruel and repressive racist regime in Palestine."

True

"Such outrageous anti-Semitic remarks should have no place in a U.N. anti-racism forum," he said.

Utter bullshit.

 

[ViolentPanda]

True

True

True

Utter bullshit.

Agreed.
We must be self-hating Jews.

 

[spring-peeper]

The quotes from Ahmadinejad don't seem anti-semitic to me. And he acknowledges the terrible persecution of the Jews in Europe which is at odds with the claims he is a Holocaust denier and certainly would be at odds with typical anti-semitic views

The "not a good start" comment was about the walkout, not the speech. I really didn't have a problem with his speech.

imo, no-one should have boycotted and no-one should have walked. I don't think you can combat racist by turning your back on it and walking away.

 

[spring-peeper]

There was a lot of applause for his speech, btw.

 

[fishfinger]

If the reason for the walkout was due to the quoted text, then I am an evil anti-semite too.

 

[spring-peeper]

Here's the BBC's list of quotes from the speech.

Diplomats have walked out of a UN conference on racism during a speech by Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Here are some key quotes from his address:


The victorious powers [of the world wars] call themselves the conquerors of the world, while ignoring or down-treading the rights of other nations by the imposition of oppressive laws and international arrangements.


Following World War Two, they resorted to making an entire nation homeless on the pretext of Jewish suffering. They sent migrants from Europe, the United States and other parts of the world in order to establish a totally racist government in the occupied Palestine. In compensation for the dire consequences of racism in Europe, they helped bring to power the most cruel and repressive, racist regime in Palestine.


It is all the more regrettable that a number of Western governments and the United States have committed themselves to defending those racist perpetrators of genocide, whilst the awakened consciences and free-minded people of the world condemn aggression, brutality and the bombardment of civilians of Gaza.


[Conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan were] a clear example of egocentrism, racism, discrimination or infringement upon the dignity and independence of nations.


Today, the human community is facing a kind of racism which has tarnished the image of humanity. In the beginning of the third millennium, the word Zionism personifies racism, that falsely resorts to religion and abuses religious sentiments to hide hatred.


Efforts must be made to put an end to the abuse by Zionists and their supporters of political and international means... Governments must be encouraged and supported in the fight aimed at eradicating this barbaric racism and moving towards reforming the current international mechanisms.


You are all aware of the conspiracy of some powers and Zionist circles against the goals and objectives of this conference... It should be recognised that boycotting such a session is a true indication of supporting the blatant example of racism.

bbc

 

[Spion]

imo, no-one should have boycotted and no-one should have walked. I don't think you can combat racist by turning your back on it and walking away.

Those who walked out disgust me. They help perpetuate an awful situation for the Palestinians, and half the world knows these powerful people are propping up a murderous racist state

 

[Woollyredhat]

Everybody knows that Iran are the baddies silly!! And that America and Israel are protectors of the universe. And that Iran is a threat to the middle east.
And they are making nukes too, don't you know, they'll plain out kill us all. They want to wipe Israel off the map, don't you know!

What? There are people who don't fall for the U.s and likewise outlets propaganda bullshit.
Fix that PR machine stat, or we're going to have to put more chemicals into the water!!!

 

[frogwoman]

if transnistria had been a member of the UN,none of this would have happened.

 

[Corax]

People on here are so ignorant.

Ahmadinejad's a fanatical psychopath who's desparately trying to bring about a global caliphate and destroy the western way of life because he's jealous of our love of freedom. He could nuke a school in East Hampstead any moment. An infants school, full of beautiful little blonde boys and girls innocently playing together.

The BBC said so FFS!!!

 

[Dr Jon]

Everybody knows that Iran are the baddies silly!! And that America and Israel are protectors of the universe. And that Iran is a threat to the middle east.
And they are making nukes too, don't you know, they'll plain out kill us all. They want to wipe Israel off the map, don't you know!

What? There are people who don't fall for the U.s and likewise outlets propaganda bullshit.
Fix that PR machine stat, or we're going to have to put more chemicals into the water!!!

Interesting too that Iran still has the world's 2nd largest reserves of oil & gas. Maybe they're being set up for a bit of smash 'n' grab?

 

[Corax]

No shit.

 

[nino_savatte]

Did you notice how the BBC managed to couple "Iran's potential for nuclear arms" to the reaction to Ahmadinejad's speech as if it were about to form part of some runaway train?

 

[Andy the Don]

Can we use the next UN conference on female, sexual and religous minority rights to attack Iran and other mid-eastern countries vehemently?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Terrific. It's the UN Showboating Conference. Ahmadinejad gets to pretend that he cares about Palestinians, and a bunch of other people get to pretend how shocked they are and that they care about anti-semitism.

 

[London_Calling]

The clip I saw had a room full of a couple of hundred diplomats of whom 15-20 walked out. Ahmadinejad says what he usually says and this is the first item on the BBC 10.00pm news?

 

[Corax]

Ahmadinejad, yesterday:

 

[JWH]

Was it ever likely that Ahmedinajad would show up and make a speech that said "I fucking hate the Jews and wish to wipe them off the face of the earth"? Of course not, this is a PR exercise for him as much as for anyone else. He "acknowledges the suffering of the Jews" in the 30s and 40s - just like any other revisionist. None of them actually say "no Jews suffered anything", they just say "of course the Jews suffered...but it wasn't as bad as everyone said".

Indeed. Sounds like the usual "anti-semite!" hysteria which erupts when anyone criticises Israel.

Yes, I can't imagine any other reason why people would think the Prez is an anti-semite.

 

[Kaka Tim]

Was it ever likely that Ahmedinajad would show up and make a speech that said "I fucking hate the Jews and wish to wipe them off the face of the earth"? Of course not, this is a PR exercise for him as much as for anyone else. He "acknowledges the suffering of the Jews" in the 30s and 40s - just like any other revisionist. None of them actually say "no Jews suffered anything", they just say "of course the Jews suffered...but it wasn't as bad as everyone said".

Yes, I can't imagine any other reason why people would think the Prez is an anti-semite.

So what part of what he actually said do you take issue with?

And how is any of what he actually said 'anti-semitic'?

Cos - unlike you - we cant read his mind to discover what he secretly thinks whilst saying it so we have to deal with actual factual detail.

 

[Knotted]

Was it ever likely that Ahmedinajad would show up and make a speech that said "I fucking hate the Jews and wish to wipe them off the face of the earth"? Of course not, this is a PR exercise for him as much as for anyone else. He "acknowledges the suffering of the Jews" in the 30s and 40s - just like any other revisionist. None of them actually say "no Jews suffered anything", they just say "of course the Jews suffered...but it wasn't as bad as everyone said".

Yes, I can't imagine any other reason why people would think the Prez is an anti-semite.

The point is that the excuse of boycotting due to "anti-semitism" is the accusation of a thought crime not an actual crime. Just as the Israeli excuse for not recognising Hamas is because of their alleged 'anti-semitic' thought crimes not their actual crimes - Hamas recognise Israel in practice and are desperate to negotiate. Of course the whole conference is about trivialising the history of colonialism, slavery, genocide, population transfers and imperialism as 'racism' ie. just an attitude. Pompous PC twits all round.

 

[London_Calling]

Best I can tell, he's an "anti-Semite" because he accused Israel of racism against the Palestinians. So it's not about the message anymore, it's instantly about the messenger.

 

[goldenecitrone]

A combative electioneering speech from the Iranian. Wonder if it gained or lost him many votes at home.

 

[JWH]

So what part of what he actually said do you take issue with? And how is any of what he actually said 'anti-semitic'? Cos - unlike you - we cant read his mind to discover what he secretly thinks whilst saying it so we have to deal with actual factual detail.

But that's exactly the point - you can't just go by what people say in their speeches! You have to look at their actions and who they work for.

When Nick Griffin goes on Question Time/campaigning/whatever, he's very careful not to say anything that's too far right of the mainstream Toryism, and generally sticks to the bleeding obvious or empty invective that he can't get caught out on - just like El Prez has here.

If you were very credulous and only listened to his public speeches (as opposed to the ones secretly recorded), you might think, "ooh, that Nick Griffin's got some points about accountability in the EU, and you know what, New Labour are a shower of tossers" - and of course that's perfectly true. But only a fool would ever say that Griffin isn't a crypto-fascist.

Best I can tell, he's an "anti-Semite" because he accused Israel of racism against the Palestinians.

You're unfamiliar with, for instance, his suggestions that the Holocaust was a myth designed to oppress Germans or that historians who believe the Holocaust existed are politically-motivated?

 

[Spion]

But that's exactly the point - you can't just go by what people say in their speeches! You have to look at their actions and who they work for.

When Nick Griffin goes on Question Time/campaigning/whatever, he's very careful not to say anything that's too far right of the mainstream Toryism, and generally sticks to the bleeding obvious or empty invective that he can't get caught out on - just like El Prez has here.

If you were very credulous and only listened to his public speeches (as opposed to the ones secretly recorded), you might think, "ooh, that Nick Griffin's got some points about accountability in the EU, and you know what, New Labour are a shower of tossers" - and of course that's perfectly true. But only a fool would ever say that Griffin isn't a crypto-fascist.

You're unfamiliar with, for instance, his suggestions that the Holocaust was a myth designed to oppress Germans or that historians who believe the Holocaust existed are politically-motivated?

But which of the things he said in his speech are untrue?

 

[In Bloom]

Can we use the next UN conference on female, sexual and religous minority rights to attack Iran and other mid-eastern countries vehemently?

Well it'd be a bit odd if it wasn't mentioned at all.

 

[London_Calling]

Apropos of nothing in particular directly, it’s always interesting to me to get another perspective – like Ahmedinajad - other than that we’re taught through school and life; other than the western wars, the western holocaust, the western guilt tripping, the western media, the western entertainment industry – so little of it penetrates the east/Muslim world where they obviously have their own history and culture.

I wouldn’t go as far as some by talking in terms of a holocaust ‘industry’ or a holocaust obsession but I’d be surprised if many weeks in my life have gone past without it cropping up in media somewhere. Not the case for very many other cultures.


/anyway, is that the time . . .

 

[DexterTCN]

The Russians must get sick of hearing about what happened in WWII.

This walk-out and outrage (yawn) seems just a little engineered for me. And convenient, when there's a discussion to be had. Over 1000 Palestines died a little while ago and they're still being treated just like the blacks in apartheid South Africa.

Not acceptable that the supporters of that regime and this are the ones trying to cloud the issues and change the subject.

 

[frogwoman]

Apropos of nothing in particular directly, it’s always interesting to me to get another perspective – like Ahmedinajad - other than that we’re taught through school and life; other than the western wars, the western holocaust, the western guilt tripping, the western media, the western entertainment industry – so little of it penetrates the east/Muslim world where they obviously have their own history and culture.

I wouldn’t go as far as some by talking in terms of a holocaust ‘industry’ or a holocaust obsession but I’d be surprised if many weeks in my life have gone past without it cropping up in media somewhere. Not the case for very many other cultures.


/anyway, is that the time . . .

Well ... as a jew ...

my personal view of "the holocaust" is that there were actually a lot more than six million jews who died. i wouldn't be surprised , quite honestly, if the figure was more like about 7.5 million - which was the original estimate before it was revised downwards.

(and that is not even discussing the 6 million+ non jews - ie russian POWs, serbs, poles gypsies, mentally ill etc etc) the way that the subject is approached imo in "the west" is an absolute fucking disgrace. and i do think that people are making money from it, whereas people who actually survived it in many cases and who live in countries (such as belarus and elsewhere) where they stil do face anti-semitism on a day to basis, have got vritually nothing, and its totally fucking disgusting.

I mean in one concentration camp there is actually a gift shop where you can buy souvenirs from that camp. ffs

and all the wrong lessons have been learnt from it. the idea for example that we went into world war II to "get rid of an evil dictator", totally the ignoring the social forces/causes that allowed the grwoth of fascism in the first place and the part played by elites in germany and elsewhere that allowed fascism to grow.

its like since world war II, the way its taught is like "oh shit the holocaust - that was bad, that better not happen again" totally ignoring what actually happened to make it happen, to make it possible for such a thing to take place.