Boycotting Israel as a route to peace.

[frogwoman]

Apart from being an exceptionally ignorant comment, it's also a pretty dire insult to conscripts' intelligence and state of mind.

where do these people come from, vp?

 

[ViolentPanda]

If those verses are 'out of context', do put them in context for me.

It is common practice to read the quaran literally as it was intended by its author.

Oh right, that must be why Allah has struck down any Muslim scholar who has written commentary on the Quran.

What's that? He hasn't?

Ah, it must be that your attribution of literalism is mistaken.

The bible is often in parables and not the direct word of God, but inspired by God, there is much room for interpretation. There in lies the difference, what the quran says - you do, what the bible says- you interpret and embrace

Oh dear.

 

[frogwoman]

The God of Israel loves sinners, Allah does not... how can this be the same God assuming both are direct quotes from God?

What makes you think that Allah doesn't love sinners? are you going to start going on about a "moon g-d" next or something?

enquiring minds want to know ...

 

[ViolentPanda]

where do these people come from, vp?

East Anglia.

It's the only possible answer.

 

[ViolentPanda]

What makes you think that Allah doesn't love sinners? are you going to start going on about a "moon g-d" next or something?

enquiring minds want to know ...

I don't know about a moon g-d, but I know where there's a mooncalf

 

[tangentlama]

I don't know about a moon g-d, but I know where there's a mooncalf

pml

 

[astronaut]

Hey , you got to admit that I know how to draw them out of the woodwork.

Extremism begets extremism.

If you learned to be a lot more moderate, then perhaps extremists from the other side wouldn't go at you so readily.

Having said that, gumby does seem an extremist himself -- but perhaps it was moono who provoked him by calling Israel fascist?

 

[frogwoman]

he he

gumby, if you're as contemptuous of muslims as you seem to be then isn't that an insult to g-d, seeing as, like, he was the one that made them?

 

[frogwoman]

Extremism begets extremism.

If you learned to be a lot more moderate, then perhaps extremists from the other side wouldn't go at you so readily.

Having said that, gumby does seem an extremist himself -- but perhaps it was moono who provoked him by calling Israel fascist?

Or maybe they're both as bad as each other?

 

[astronaut]

Or maybe they're both as bad as each other?

Absolutely -- ultimately its a chicken-egg issue

Question is, is moono the egg or the chicken?

 

[astronaut]

Found the following in New Perspective Quarterly from Spring 2006:

Sadly, but not surprisingly, all three cultures—American, Israeli, Palestinian—have now regressed from their more universal and positive elements to a psychological circling of the wagons, a reversion to the certitudes of super-patriotism, “my country right or wrong,” in search of the elemental strengths of inflated nationalism in a time of trouble. But any culture perceiving itself under siege grows less receptive to open-minded and self-reflective examination of its security problems. As a result, none of these cultures has been ready to settle for anything less than “complete victory” cast in an elemental framework of good versus evil. Alternative perspectives that might shake certainty in the total virtue of one’s own position and policies have been quite unwelcome. Yet, this psychological mindset could not be more damaging to prospects for any ultimate accommodation, reconciliation or resolution.

The same is true of extremist supporters of one side or another.

 

[tangentlama]

So boycott both.
Boycott Palestine and Israel.

 

[astronaut]

So boycott both.
Boycott Palestine and Israel.

Or try to reconcile them.

 

[moono]

frogwoman;

Or maybe they're both as bad as each other?

You still on my case ? Get off it. It's the topic that attracts arseholes, not me.

 

[obanite]

After doing some digging I've found that Ishaq was a prophet, not a chapter:

The God whom Abraham, Ishmael and Ishaq worshipped was the same God the sons of Jacob worshipped and surrendered to. They were called neither Jews nor Arabs in that time, but were considered righteous.

Also:

References to Ishaq in the Qur'an

* Appraisals for Ishaq: 6:84, 12:6, 19:50, 21:72, 21:73, 37:113, 38:45, 38:46, 38:47
* Ishaq prophecy: 2:133, 2:136, 2:140, 3:84, 4:163, 6:84, 12:6, 19:49, 21:73, 37:112

Still no sign of this mysterious 489, other than in partisan websites. Perhaps I've suddenly lost my critical information finding abilities, but I'm beginning to suspect some possible intentional misquoting here, not just quoting out of context. Obviously since Gumby highlighted this quote in the largest text it's his biggest argument for Islam being the kind of religion he says it is.

 

[astronaut]

It's the topic that attracts arseholes, not me.

So you admit you're an arsehole?

 

[nino_savatte]

just short sighted. Who the f**k are Sweden?! And, who are you to call Israel a fascist country? Hamas have NO political platform and will crumble and take the Palestinians with them. They are the fascists, they are weak enough to send others as human bombs into Israel but never their own family or friends, watch Paradise Now, and see how these men are, when once of the potential recruits asks 'will someone come and take me?' (i.e after the explosion), the militant waves his hand and says 'yeah, sure, 70 virgins', smirking. Israel has a lot to answer for but has a far better record of human rights record than most Arab countries, I know how that sentecne will excite you, but it's the truth. Whatever, it doesn't really matter, I hardly ever bother post on here as it's pretty tedious, the constant Israel-bashing you do, are you bored?

Fucks sake, another one!

 

[moono]

Yeah. They're all annoyed because the Palestinians have invaded Israel.

So, fanatics, ultraists and Dumpties aside, the practical application of 'boycotting' might enable 'tit-for-tat' responses to Israel's abuse of its control. A contrived delay of Palestinian goods at a crossing, for example, might be met with the turning away of an Israeli freighter from the port of a conscientious State.

I have a personal desire to see this implemented, as it happens, on account of Israel blocking the movement of goods I've ordered from Palestine. Just a few ' support the Palestinian economy' items but I can see how easy it is for the Zionists to choke commerce.

 

[rachamim18]

It pays to actually read an article before using it...

Moono: In fact, Sweden is correct in that IT IS a prerequisite that participating nations MUST have participated in at least one prior Peace Keeping mission. In the end though that is merely a spin on what has pretty much been consistent Scandanavian policy toawards both Israel and Arabs. All three governments have always been pro Arab and at best, tepid with regards towards Israel.


You are constantly on about Israel being a purveyor of "Apartheid" policies and such, yet yopu NEVER offer even a modicum of proof. finally, please qualify your nonsense with a shred of evidence.

No, Muslims and/or Arabs did not drop 2000 rounds on the streets of Denmark.
Perhaps if norwegians were launching Qassams and so called "suciie bombers" into copenhagen it would be different. In any event, Muslims did run rampant in the streets of Copenhagen after a cartoon that defamed Muhammed was published in a Danish periodical.

Tangent: I don't know but those Danish riots looked pretty scary to me...

TAE: As for "selected out of context verses..." The Qu'ran is what it is. It was written [or revealed depending on your beliefs] to a warlike people. Semites sprang from the desert. The desert is a harsh, inhospitable place. One of the pillars of Islam IS mercy. However that does not extend fully to the unbeliever. I suppose the sure dealing with martial duties, dealing witht he "onstinate wife" is out of context as well? Telling a man that he should beat his wife moderately with a stick if she fails to reason does not lend itself to a peaceful interpreation. How about the Had'it and female cicumcison.

Panda: "The people of Israel are ready to recreate Masada..." Well, certainly not all. I know your Peacenik idols would run like the blubbering fools they are but many of us ARE completely willing to die for our beliefs. I would gladly sacrifce myself and all my children for the sake of my people.

As for "soldiers not being prepared to die," that statement is rubbish. If you were to add UNNECCESSERILY to it I would agree wholeheartedly. A combat soldier understand that his [or her since we are talking about Israel] job might require that ultimate sacrifice. In the ethical guide given to all inductees this is spelled out quite clearly and it is drummed in during Basic as well. A solider who takes unnessary risks won't last long in the field, one way or another he will be dealt with. The same goes for a soldier who fails to carry their own weight out of fear. In the end though, we are a culture who values, neigh, celebrates life.


Frogwoman: As an outsider it might be difficult for you to fathom a society like Israel's. From a very early age most children are indoctrinated. I began military activities at age 11. Israel is like any other society in that its people hold a myriad of outlooks. On a whole though, most realise that Israel lies surrounded by a sea of avowed enemies and has a war every 8 years on average.

 

[moono]

Rachamim;

Moono: In fact, Sweden is correct in that IT IS a prerequisite that participating nations MUST have participated in at least one prior Peace Keeping mission. In the end though that is merely a spin on what has pretty much been consistent Scandanavian policy toawards both Israel and Arabs. All three governments have always been pro Arab and at best, tepid with regards towards Israel.

I'm sorry old fruit but I've stopped believing anything you say. Be a good Rachamim and direct your tripe at somebody else. Appreciated.

 

[rachamim18]

waaaaaaa

Moono: "Old fruit" I suppose is prefferable to "jewboy" and "shyster lawyer" so I do see improvement. If you are really sick of me, just put me on ignore.Until thern, I will continue adressing your ERRONEOUS ppionts for the benefot opf others since this forum is not your personal soapbox.

 

[moono]

'Shyster' is in general usage as a 'sly crook'. If you want to claim it as your prerogative go right ahead. Neither is as apt a description of you as 'liar'.

My request is that you, as a known liar, go and be a pedant elsewhere.

 

[TAE]

If those verses are 'out of context', do put them in context for me.

Regarding the book in question, I do not claim to be familiar enough with it to be able to do that.

I was simply pointing out that your quotes, on their own, mean very little.

It is common practice to read the quaran literally as it was intended by its author.

And who is to say that the bible was intended to be read in any other way?

The bible is often in parables and not the direct word of God, but inspired by God, there is much room for interpretation. There in lies the difference, what the quran says - you do, what the bible says- you interpret and embrace

I would actually say that the bible itself disagrees with you here:
2 Peter 1:20-21

But let's not get into a big debate about scripture.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Panda: "The people of Israel are ready to recreate Masada..."

Actually, what I asked that poster was "Massively generalised bollocks. Any evidence whatsoever to back up this cockamamie contention that "the people of Israel" are prepared to do a countrywide re-enactment of Masada?
" rather than the selective edit you posted.

Well, certainly not all. I know your Peacenik idols would run like the blubbering fools...

Showing your ignorance again, I see.
I'm not a "peacenik" and never have been, and neither do I idolise "peaceniks". What I respect is people who transcend partisanship and deal with the issues, not wooly-headed idiots on either side who live in their sectarian little worlds.

they are but many of us ARE completely willing to die for our beliefs. I would gladly sacrifce myself and all my children for the sake of my people.

You'd sacrifice your children, you'd deny them any choice in the matter?

If that's so then you're scum of such worthlessness that even hyenas wouldn't piss on your corpse.

 

[TAE]

I think the south african boycot model had one advantage - as far as I know, very few people said that all white south africans should leave the area.

 

[Gumby]

No, in the end it stands or falls by how much force is brought against it.

My point exactly... a boycott is not an adequate form of force.

Massively generalised bollocks. Any evidence whatsoever to back up this cockamamie contention that "the people of Israel" are prepared to do a countrywide re-enactment of Masada?

Well maybe if you read what I wrote about consicription in Israel and how it relates to my point you'd think twice before making a fool out of yourself.

Thought not.

Are you retarded? This is an internet forum, I can not answer you while you are composing your reply.

 

[ZAMB]

You'd sacrifice your children, you'd deny them any choice in the matter?

If that's so then you're scum of such worthlessness that even hyenas wouldn't piss on your corpse.

I was going to comment on this, but Panda got there before me. Would you deny your children the right to make up their own minds whether a cause was worth dying for? What if they disagreed with you? Would you turn them in as traitors?

As for "soldiers not being prepared to die," that statement is rubbish.

Just one instance [below] of your above statement being at the least, a distortion of the facts. I have seen a number of statements from Israeli soldiers online saying that while they would give their lives to defend their country, they would not risk their lives in the commission of what they call war crimes. Some have gone to jail rather than obey such orders.

The "selective refusal" movement is not new. Since the start of the uprising 16 months ago, more than 1,000 Israeli soldiers, including those who signed the recent letter, have refused to serve in the occupied territories. None has been tried, but 50 have been jailed for insubordination. Israel is small -- its 1,000 refusers would be the equivalent of 40,000 politically motivated refusals in the U.S. armed forces. This represents a ratio of discontent that any government, Israeli or American, disregards at its peril.

http://news.pacificnews.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=619

 

[nino_savatte]

My point exactly... a boycott is not an adequate form of force.

Massively generalised bollocks. Any evidence whatsoever to back up this cockamamie contention that "the people of Israel" are prepared to do a countrywide re-enactment of Masada?

Well maybe if you read what I wrote about consicription in Israel and how it relates to my point you'd think twice before making a fool out of yourself.



Are you retarded? This is an internet forum, I can not answer you while you are composing your reply.

There's that word "retarded" again. Are you another one of those freepershits? Aye, silly question, of course you are.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Are you retarded? This is an internet forum, I can not answer you while you are composing your reply.

I'm not "retarded", it's purely that any rational person would know that you could not provide any evidence to answer the question I asked, so I was able to predict what your reply (if you chose to make one) would be. You wouldn't (and couldn't) have an answer.

See, quite simple really.

You're not too good with logic and rational thought, are you?

 

[ViolentPanda]

I was going to comment on this, but Panda got there before me. Would you deny your children the right to make up their own minds whether a cause was worth dying for? What if they disagreed with you? Would you turn them in as traitors?

What I find utterly offensive (and hypocritical) in Rachimim's vile declaration is that it has the stink of the same kind of irrational zealotry that he attributes to and roundly condemns in the Palestinians.[/QUOTE]

Just one instance [below] of your above statement being at the least, a distortion of the facts. I have seen a number of statements from Israeli soldiers online saying that while they would give their lives to defend their country, they would not risk their lives in the commission of what they call war crimes. Some have gone to jail rather than obey such orders.


http://news.pacificnews.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=619

Distortion of the facts is something Rachamim has been condemned for many times before.