Jesus, is he still going! I dealt with him getting shot in the head outside Turnmills in the 90s - bullet rattled round his head and lodged by his ear causing no serious damage, lucky fucker.
Boy shot dead in supermarket on Camberwell Road
- Thread starter kittyP
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That makes more sense.
ska invita
back on the other side
Is that Aylesbury YOT? I hear Aylesbury YOTs moving down to Goose Green ~ probably a good move. Must be hard to work with young offenders in the middle of a war zoneit's round the corner from my workand I work with youths in the area, so wondering if it's another one of ours gone.
It was feeling a bit odd in Myatts Field last night, did not know this.
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
From a media-cenrtic pov, there's an interesting angle in The Guardian this morning: Bystander becomes London's 22nd teen victim
They seem very keen indeed to associate this event with the media's previously very successful (but recently stalled) 'knifing' narrative and so have broadened out the knifing data set to include "teen victims". All of a sudden, the narrative gets back on the front page and the 'story' rolls on again . . .
They seem very keen indeed to associate this event with the media's previously very successful (but recently stalled) 'knifing' narrative and so have broadened out the knifing data set to include "teen victims". All of a sudden, the narrative gets back on the front page and the 'story' rolls on again . . .
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Yes, it's been all about stabbings this year. I wonder if that means there has actually been a decrease in shootings.
Yes, it's been all about stabbings this year. I wonder if that means there has actually been a decrease in shootings.
I think there has been an increase actually.
This data from the Lambeth police seems to say (page 23 - homicide in year to date) that there have been 11 murders up to July 2008 in Lambeth compared to 6 in the same period to July 2007.
http://www.downloads.lambethcpcg.org.uk/Police%20Report%200709.pdf
Virtually all the non violent crime stats are down - but gun crime is up.
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
I think there has been an increase actually.
This data from the Lambeth police seems to say (page 23 - homicide in year to date) that there have been 11 murders up to July 2008 in Lambeth compared to 6 in the same period to July 2007.
http://www.downloads.lambethcpcg.org.uk/Police%20Report%200709.pdf
Virtually all the non violent crime stats are down - but gun crime is up.
But according to this overall in London knife and gun crime is down.
Of course there can be localised maxima in certain areas or amongst certain communities.
Miss-Shelf
I'll meet you further on up the road
thats a great book - it really strengthened my gut feelings of how we should we with small children in day care and schools
Damasio/the Feeling of what happens gives a more accademic take on it - also interesting
a friend of mine has just finished a job in a hackney school in a really deprived area. Endless stories of abuse and shattered lives. Schools especially in those areas need to be small and have lots of theraputic support.
The staff in that school were just overwhelmed with the needs of the children and the conflicting need to get on with the sats driven curriculum
Couldn't see that in the linked story ... but it wouldn't surprise me.
If you remember there were a spate of teenager on teenager shootings about 18 months ago. That led to serious pressure on suppliers and carriers of guns and quite a lot of arrests were made. As a result the intelligence suggested that guns were significantly less available ... which is being seriously considered as one of the factors behind the increased use of knives in "gang-related" stabbings now. I know of at least two of the recent stabbings where the officers are pretty sure the suspects would have had access to, and would have used, guns 18 months ago ...
Just goes to illustrate the need to focus attention on the cause (the ready use of fatal violence by teenagers) rather than they symptom (the carrying of any particular weapon). Take any weapon away and they will find another. Take away the desire to use fatal violence and the world could be awash with weapons and it would make no difference (bit of an exaggeration I know, but you take the point!).
In a small way that's a positive - in that it's a lot harder to kill somebody (particularly by standers) with a knife.
Which stats were you looking at on the link to substantiate that? I couldn't see any that did (though some tables were partially blank)
(As an aside, you may like to ask at the next meeting why so much information (dates of birth, exact addresses) is included in that presentation - it would not seem necessary (approximate age and street or estate location would be more than enough) and is both a probable breach of the Data Protection Act and may lead to further problems (e.g. revenge attacks on suspects))
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
I never understood why people do that. Does one not run the risk of hot shell casings twatting ye in the eye?
ShiftyBagLady
Thinks she is a flower to be looked at
Did you miss teh big red air ambulance that landed on the green hilly bit then? Seems odd to say but I was relieved to hear it was 'only' a stabbing as
I heard an older child telling my 6 year old that someone had been shot and they died
Of course children absorb all these goings on, I still find it shocking that they should very casually say 'Yeah someone got shot dead across the road'.
Missed that as I was either hiding indoors, sitting in Kennington Park or asleep.
Just noticed a lot of 'da youth' were in big groups or staring out of flat windows.
ShiftyBagLady
Thinks she is a flower to be looked at
are you me?
It is possible.
Have you just taken off your top and and are jumping up and down?
Table on page 23 of the CPCG document. I don't go along to the meetings - just occasionally cull the crime figures for urban use.
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
I'm reading that at the moment. Interesting, but hard going!
Yes. You also run a very high chance of missing whatever you are aiming at (which, in itself, is not a bad thing in the circumstances) and hittig something else (which is). They do it purely and simply because they have seen it in films / videos (or they have seen their dickhead mates doing it ... who have seen it in films / videos ...)
(a) That doesn't provide anything to differentiate between shooting and stabbing homicides. Nor, so far as I can see, does anything else anywhere in the document. The point being made was that shootings had gone down whilst stabbings had gone up - something that would be consistent with the impression of currently serving officers.
(b) (And more importantly) That appears to be a document produced a year ago. All the graphs end in July 2007. The figures you quote (11 and 6) are homicides for the Financial Year to July 2007 and the Financial Year to July 2006 respectively.
It is, unless I am missing something, now 2008 isn't it?
Miss-Shelf
I'll meet you further on up the road
(a) That doesn't provide anything to differentiate between shooting and stabbing homicides. Nor, so far as I can see, does anything else anywhere in the document. The point being made was that shootings had gone down whilst stabbings had gone up - something that would be consistent with the impression of currently serving officers.
(b) (And more importantly) That appears to be a document produced a year ago. All the graphs end in July 2007. The figures you quote (11 and 6) are homicides for the Financial Year to July 2007 and the Financial Year to July 2006 respectively.
It is, unless I am missing something, now 2008 isn't it?
Doh! Wrong year's report.
The most recent CPCG report is February 2008 - which covers the April - October 2007 figures.
Those are 19 homicides versus 9 in the same bit of 2006 - so a dramatic worsening.
No more up to date figures exist - these are 10 months out of date.
I don't think anyone is taking issue with that (though across London I don't think the increase is anything like as marked). The issue is whether or not stabbings or shootings are becoming more or less common anongst youngsters. The public data simply does not have the level of detail needed to track that.Those are 19 homicides versus 9 in the same bit of 2006 - so a dramatic worsening.
Camilla and her people are great. More power, and money, to them. But what to do about this feckless, unsocialised youth in the long term rather than right now? Abolish them, I say.
These kids were born to unemployed, bored, uneducated teenage mothers, and somehow we have to stop people like that having babies because they grow up into these violent headless chickens. First prong of this world-beating community safety strategy, say I, is to prevent said teenage mums from getting social housing. Maybe you could reduce their benefit too. If they found they could not get a flat after having a baby, they would stop having them, and the supply of future violent morons would be cut off at the source.
Of course, the system has to be able to distinguish the dumb mums from the ones who intend, probably with a father too, to take parenthood seriously. I admit, implementing something like this would be extremely difficult, but surely we have to do something to try and prevent fools from begetting more fools.
The trouble is, the social security system currently says it values families and wants to prevent harm coming to babies and young children. That's why the feckless mums get the flats and the benefits, for the sake of the child. But while those facilities and services may be keeping child clothed and fed nothing is being done for their socialisation, education or future prospects because it is being raised by ignorant people who are proud of not knowing anything. The children then get to 16, have children who grow up in their own hopeless, ignorant, cynical image, and so it goes. This picture may not even apply to the majority of such mothers, but it is certainly big enough to make this a serious problem. You have to break the cycle somewhere.
Regarding dangerous youth from "good homes", as posted above, I believe that these cases are the minority, and that they got that way because the violent morons have set the tone for youth culture in schools and on estates, meaning the "good" kids get drawn in because they don't want to be left out.
These kids were born to unemployed, bored, uneducated teenage mothers, and somehow we have to stop people like that having babies because they grow up into these violent headless chickens. First prong of this world-beating community safety strategy, say I, is to prevent said teenage mums from getting social housing. Maybe you could reduce their benefit too. If they found they could not get a flat after having a baby, they would stop having them, and the supply of future violent morons would be cut off at the source.
Of course, the system has to be able to distinguish the dumb mums from the ones who intend, probably with a father too, to take parenthood seriously. I admit, implementing something like this would be extremely difficult, but surely we have to do something to try and prevent fools from begetting more fools.
The trouble is, the social security system currently says it values families and wants to prevent harm coming to babies and young children. That's why the feckless mums get the flats and the benefits, for the sake of the child. But while those facilities and services may be keeping child clothed and fed nothing is being done for their socialisation, education or future prospects because it is being raised by ignorant people who are proud of not knowing anything. The children then get to 16, have children who grow up in their own hopeless, ignorant, cynical image, and so it goes. This picture may not even apply to the majority of such mothers, but it is certainly big enough to make this a serious problem. You have to break the cycle somewhere.
Regarding dangerous youth from "good homes", as posted above, I believe that these cases are the minority, and that they got that way because the violent morons have set the tone for youth culture in schools and on estates, meaning the "good" kids get drawn in because they don't want to be left out.
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