Boy aged four savaged by bulldog
- Thread starter wiskey
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geminisnake
a complex mass of conflicting ideas
longdog said:
Did you never come anywhere near where I lived in Rainham?
There was two rotties at the end of the road. The male was mental in a scary way, chained up and secured to a BIG metal post whereas the female was only dangerous if you let her drool on you
I've never met a staffie that wasn't a soppy lump of muscle and would only be dangerous if they sat on you too long(dead legs), though I am aware that some grade A twats own them and train them badly
Not a big fan of dobermans, but again they can be very loving and soppy when brought up properly, as can virtually any dog really.
longdog said:
When we were looking into getting a dog, we researched Staffs and everyone told us that they were the best dogs to have with young children (we have 3) and that they were lovely natured dogs. I just didn't like the look of them and a while later, a little girl down the road had her top lip bitten by a neighbours staff
So I'm glad we didn't have one of them.We ended up with a Jack Russell who is the most soppy dog in the world! He adores visitors and brings them his toys and he loves the children! Tickle his tummy and he will be your friend for life.
However, at his last visit to the vet, he took offence to having a thermometer up his bum and went berserk
The vet and his assistant couldn't even get a muzzle on him and I had to calm him down for a good while before he sat beautifully for his jab 
So I now know what he is capable of, he even scared me and although I am 99% positive that he would never hurt a child when we have visitors with small children that he doesn't know well, I always put him in his cage until they have gone.
You can never be too careful
Gratuitous pic of Charlie on his daddy's lap
http://s70.photobucket.com/albums/i107/mandy12336/th_charlie2.jpg
subversplat
writer of wrongs
If people took the same sort of assumptions they do about dogs and particular breeds of dogs and applied them to various sections of people, everybody would be rightly outraged. I'm not suggesting that racism is in any way the same as dog-breedism, but the same sorts of things that can make a person into a twat (neglect, violent upbringing, whatever) work just the same for a dog. Most breeds of dog have had hundreds of years of weeding out those that attack familiar people so any that decide to go for people have been brought up badly, excepting a few cases where it is well documented where dogs will flip out (Alsatians are particularly narky in hot weather, for example) it is almost always human error that causes people to be sent to hospital. Obviously (and rather unfairly in some cases, imo) it's the dog that gets put down, rather than the owner.
zenie
>^^<
Ok well....
Here here!!
It's usually called a 'pit-type' this can be applied to any old dog that the dog warden sees fit. (i.e anybull dog/staffie/english bully cross)
Unless intervened the warden can have a destruction order on any dog they deem to be matching chacteristics!
There is currently no breed rescue for the dog that bit the boy and was subsequently destroyed today. It is also becoming a very popular breed - I've met some lovely American Bulldogs, I've met some that 'idiots' train as guard dogs, and I've met a lovely but fear-agressive american who you cant be left alone with so go figure.
It's all about how they are brought up - seeing as this dog came from a rescue situation is no surprise! We have to ask what it's background was...
I'm interested to know which rescue rehomed him to them though - someone is going to get their arses kicked for this!
Serious lessons to be learnt me thinks!
Well to clear it up they are not viscious if trained correctly.
Not even low income - mostly people cant be arsed, or use incorrect training techniques, punishment not praise, whacking the dog when it does something wrong etc..
Dog training need not cost money but it can take time and perseverence!
See I wouldn't recommend anyone get a JR cos I know them to be agressive little fuckers!
FWIW I have only been bitten by one dog - that was a spaniel puppy that did not want to be away from it's Mum - it bit me on the nose when it was sat on my lap
I'd be more scared of a 'livewire' dog like a Springer Spaniel - there's something about the eyes.
Pitbulls/American Bulldogs and Staffs can be brilliant brilliant pets.
Americans are a bit big for me mind!
oryx said:
Here here!!
wiskey said:
It's usually called a 'pit-type' this can be applied to any old dog that the dog warden sees fit. (i.e anybull dog/staffie/english bully cross)
Unless intervened the warden can have a destruction order on any dog they deem to be matching chacteristics!
There is currently no breed rescue for the dog that bit the boy and was subsequently destroyed today. It is also becoming a very popular breed - I've met some lovely American Bulldogs, I've met some that 'idiots' train as guard dogs, and I've met a lovely but fear-agressive american who you cant be left alone with so go figure.
It's all about how they are brought up - seeing as this dog came from a rescue situation is no surprise! We have to ask what it's background was...
I'm interested to know which rescue rehomed him to them though - someone is going to get their arses kicked for this!
Serious lessons to be learnt me thinks!
wiskey said:
Well to clear it up they are not viscious if trained correctly.
Not even low income - mostly people cant be arsed, or use incorrect training techniques, punishment not praise, whacking the dog when it does something wrong etc..
Dog training need not cost money but it can take time and perseverence!
moomoo said:
See I wouldn't recommend anyone get a JR cos I know them to be agressive little fuckers!
FWIW I have only been bitten by one dog - that was a spaniel puppy that did not want to be away from it's Mum - it bit me on the nose when it was sat on my lap
I'd be more scared of a 'livewire' dog like a Springer Spaniel - there's something about the eyes.
Pitbulls/American Bulldogs and Staffs can be brilliant brilliant pets.
Americans are a bit big for me mind!
Pingu
Credo
wiskey said:
those four breeds are only banned because of a legislation called the Dangerous Dogs act. This act specifically names those four breeds because at the time the legistaltion was laid down tehy were the ones in the press. The DDA actually covers all breeds but only the four specific breeds were "banned". The ironic thing is is that often dogs specifically bred and trained for dog fighting pose the least risk to humans. This is because the dogs need to be agressive towards other dogs but not their handlers as they need to be able to pull them out of the pit without getting eaten.
The DDA is a very piss poor bit of legislation that only looks at if a dog acted in a manner likely to cause injury to a human at the time the incident took place. The incident can only be directed at a human and need to have talen place in a public place (or a place which is not public but where the dog was not permitted to be). Under the DDA if your dog barks at someone whilst they are in your car when you are driving along then in theory you could have broken this law. There was existing legislation called the Dogs act 1871 which looks at "is the dog dangerous" which is a much better act for the problem of dangerous dogs. However at the time the DDA was brought in the press was having a bit of a phase of dog attack stories so the Government needed to be seen to be doing something.
Back to why dog atacks happen. Often they are a the result of people not accepting the responsibility of pet ownership and assuming that dogs just behave well and come already trained and socialised. They dont. In order to have a well socialised and well behaved dog you need to put time and effort into making this happen. You do get some dogs who no matter how much time you put in will never be fully socialised etc but the vast majority of "aggresive" dogs I see are due to poor ownership.
Also we, as humans, tend to look on dogs as small furry humans and try to rationalise their behaviour according to our own behaviours. This doenst work. Dogs have different things thta determine their behaviour and we are not very good at picking up on the subtle signals dogs use. for example: a wagging tail means the dog is happy right?... Wrong a straight tail with a slower deliberate wagging action means the dogs is very unhappy and is feelong defensive. Ears back means a dog is frightened? nope it can also be a sign of contentment. You have to be able to look at the whole of the dogs body language to be able to understand whats going on.
so you have poor socialisation, maybe a bit of bad breeding and an inability to understand how dogs behave and you get situations like this arrising. Often kids will run about all excited by dogs. A dog thats not used to this will react many ways but often the dog will get excited too. This can result in either the dog joining in the play - dogs play using their mouths (no hands you see), or by chasing, barking etc etc. Or the dog will see the agitation and excitement as "somethings wrong" and it will go into defensive mode, starnge people running about .. still all excited.. shit I need to defend myself here. Or lastly the excitement can trigger one of the drives that dogs have and the kids suddenly become somthing that needs chasing down for dinner (lets call this prey drive).
In this particular case I would say that the trigger was probably teretorial in nature and the owner shoulnt have allowed the dog out unsupervised. ABDs do often have strong teretorial instincts. However without knowing the exact situation its hard to say what happened.
I have been bitten btw by more JRTs than any other breed and the most aggressive dog I have ever come across was a golden retriever. Now bear in mind I specialise in Rotties. and this is a nice time to intoruce some breed specific misunderstansdings..
a rottis is lying there and is growling at you.. itsb pissed off right? not necisarrily. Rotts have something called the Rottie Grumble which basically means "come tickle my tummy" but unless you know the difference between a growl and a grumble you could be making a big mistake. Also a dog lying on its back is often a submissive gesture.. not so with Rotts, they play and sleep lying on their backs a lot (known as roaching).
but back to the case in question. The VAST MAJORITY of agression issues I see are due to the owner and not the animal. Dogs do not come with an instruction manual and are not toys. you get out what you put in and the more time you spens socialising and training the less risk there is of incidents like this occuring
with regards to PIt bull and pit bull types btw.. its not as easy to spot one as you may think.
try this
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html
eta
its not generally a good idea to apply US stats etc to the UK as the cultural differences between how the US treas dogs, dog attacks, training methods etc differ a lot from the same things in the UK.
I recently went on a camping trip with some mates and one had a staffy. I have to say that even at less than a year old, it was the best trained dog I've ever had the pleasure to meet. Would come when called (and not just by it's owner), would wait to fetch until instructed, would sit calmly waiting to be called when told to sit and you walk hundreds of yards away, would drop it's toy on command and wouldn't even pick it up unless you told it to. Bearing in mind it was still an inquisitive puppy and was with 2 dozen slightly tipsy (and equally excitable) adults, it amazed me as I've always had a preconception about the breed.
I've no doubt whatsoever that it's impeccable behaviour was down to good treatment and intensive but caring training. I wish all dog owners would take the time to ensure their dog was properly trained. It really pisses me off when owners think that because they have a stereotypically docile breed that training isn't required.
I've no doubt whatsoever that it's impeccable behaviour was down to good treatment and intensive but caring training. I wish all dog owners would take the time to ensure their dog was properly trained. It really pisses me off when owners think that because they have a stereotypically docile breed that training isn't required.
I'm too drunk to post a proper reply, so I have highlighted the part which I feel sums up why their are aggressive dogs. 'Hard' dogs have a reputation so a lot of the time folk take them in for all the wrong reasons. Some of the friendliest dogs I have met in my life have been the most frightening.subversplat said:
Also, I'm no veggie/vegan, but I do think (in an abstract not entirely serious way) that owners of dogs that savage people should be put down rather than the dog. At least that way folk would think about the dogs they own and how they rasie them.
[falling asleep]see y'all later[/falling asleep]
This is why I get nervous when dogs run up to me in parks or whatever, I don't know if they're going to jump around happily or bite a chunk out of my leg 
I think situations like the one in the OP are caused by owners making their dogs unnecessarily and unpredictably aggressive (by playfighting all the time and encouraging energetic wild behaviour etc..)
I think situations like the one in the OP are caused by owners making their dogs unnecessarily and unpredictably aggressive (by playfighting all the time and encouraging energetic wild behaviour etc..)
Pingu
Credo
wiskey said:can you explain what that means please
most breeds have an organisation that specialises in rescue for that breed.
i.e. we specialise in Rotties. because of this we know the breeds characteristics well and what makes a good environment for the breed to go into. e.g. we wont rehome to someone who has a lifestyle that wouldnt allow for time to train and exercise properly or someone who wont give the dog the mental stimulation it needs.
because there in no rescue that specialises in American Bulldogs they tend to end up in normal rescues who will have less on an idea of the breeds characteristics.
Not saying allbreed rescues are not good its just that by their nature they have a general understanding of dogs as opposed to someone with years of experience with that breed.
Idaho
continuity character
Don't get me started on this. I think that 50% of dogs in this country should be killed, dogs should be on leads unless in specified fenced in dog areas in parks. The dog licence should be £100 a year and fines for dogs shitting in the street, being off leads etc, should be huge.
And if your dog bites someone you should have it semi-cooked in front of you and be forced at gunpoint to eat the whole thing using just a blunt knife.
I take a fairly balanced line on it as you can see
And if your dog bites someone you should have it semi-cooked in front of you and be forced at gunpoint to eat the whole thing using just a blunt knife.
I take a fairly balanced line on it as you can see
Idaho said:I take a fairly balanced line on it as you can see
cats are so much better
*scarpers*
geminisnake
a complex mass of conflicting ideas
Pingu said:
Tried that, having no idea what a pit bull looked like. I certainly would never have guessed correctly. Some of them is ugly breeds though
Funky_monks said:
In fairness, one reason for the relatively high incidence of Labrador bites is likely to be that that labbies are very common dogs. Just reporting the gross number of incidents only tells half the story, because it doesn't allow you to work out how prevalent aggressive behaviour actually is amongst particular breeds.
I'm quite scared of dogs unless I know them. Strays and unrestrained dogs in the street make me very wary, and some types of dog make me nervous even under control. In particular, I'm not fond of bull terriers, rottweilers, alsations, dobermanns and the like. On the other hand, I've never been scared of a labrador. OK so some of them do turn nasty, and they're big dogs which can cause a lot of damage if they want, but I've never met one yet that wasn't a big, dozy bundle of affection and slobber. Greyhounds don't bother me either these days, mainly because I've got to know longdog's hound, who's unlikely to do you an injury unless it's by tripping you up as he lies sprawled across the floor.
Pingu said:
That aspect is so often the thing overlooked when owners get a dog. Whatever the dog is, it needs food, exercise, basic training and company, and a lot of people don't think any more of it than that, but some dogs need way more mental exercise than physical.
Having worked in animal rescue voluntarily for years, I've handled loads of untrustworthy (note the phrase, not vicious if kept under control!) dogs, and got very few bites! It takes time to learn a dog's behaviour and recognise the signals to know to pre-empt trouble and therefore stop it before it happens. The environment has to be controlled as well as the dog, and in the specific case here, neither was the case.
I have what I regard as a totally trustworthy dog around people. He was taught very early on that even growling at a human isn't allowed, and to give up even a bone if told to by a total stranger. (Literally anyone who came into my house was made to take a bone off him)
I have never left him alone with Micro-b even so, and no self-respecting owner should ever leave a dog unattended around children, even their own IMO. The dog may be totally "safe" but you can't control an environment you're not in. Children send out a lot of confusing signals to dogs, shrieking/screaming, waving arms and so on. And there's always the chance of the dog being tripped over, trodden on, having a toy/child land on him. All these things pose a threat and/or alert the dog's "protective" instincts whether the dog's in any actual danger or not. It's up to the owner to ensure they intercede before the dog takes matters into its own paws/jaws!
Unless someone breaks into a dog's house, or threatens one of the dog's "pack" (humans or other), an attack like this is always down to human ignorance or negligence. Even a dog going senile shows enough symptoms of "warning" before it becomes unsafe. Until the human owners are properly trained, the dog won't be.
Funky_monks
Neo-Rustic
Roadkill said:
I blame pedigrees and the associated inbreeding. Labs are properly inbred; inherent genetic disesases and a short life expectancy.
I'm not a big fan of the kennel club, cos they perpetuate this.
Roadkill said:
I know this is probably no help, but acting frightened is probably the worst thing you could do in terms of provoking an agressive dog into chasing you.
Pingu
Credo
Funky_monks said:
in the past I would have agreed with you, and I am still no fan of the KC.
however in recent yeras they have actually done a fair bit to encourge the "breeding out" of some of the genetic issues.
e.g. hip and eye scoring for various breeds, the attempts to get the poor bulldogs breathing sorted out by saying they should have longer snouts.
they are far far from OK in my book (mainly cos of docking) but they are much better than they used to be.
the KC cannine good citizen scheme and the safe and sound scheme (for kids) are bith very good ideas
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