Boris Johnson for London mayor.

[kyser_soze]

And could you remind us which 'progressive' party is in control in Westminster?

Oh go on then, I'll save you the time....it's the Tories again, you know, same party that Johnson represents. Livingstone might have some pretty serious faults but God help us all if we end with a Tory Mayor.

Why are you attempting to start a row here? I've already said I wouldn't vote for Boris and that Westminster are cunts for attempting to undermine the GLAs policies re: cycling etc...

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Why are you attempting to start a row here? I've already said I wouldn't vote for Boris and that Westminster are cunts for attempting to undermine the GLAs policies re: cycling etc...

I'm not, I was being rhetorical innit?

So I was actually agreeing with you.

No happy mondays round yours today then?

 

[kyser_soze]

Nope.

Well sorta...ish...just had to listen to a creationist nurse banging on about my not going to church, abortion and how my 'belief' in evolution is a sin against God...

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

And there's you mithering about Westminster council, when much more important eccumenical matters are afoot. Save your soul, whilst you've still got time.....

 

[kyser_soze]

Meh to my soul...

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Like Cameron, Johnson's bike-riding is little more than a PR stunt.

Don't believe the hype!

What makes you say that? Johnson's been at it all his life. Whatever you think of him politically I would say his bike riding is genuine.
I have asked him about this personally (and off any kind of media record). He is a rather frank and straightforward chap and seems to genuinely love his bike etc. Of course he could be cleverly manipulating me (who is after all nobody so why would he?), but comparing him to his peers I would say he is on the level.

 

[kyser_soze]

Yeah, Boris has been a bike rider for years now, unlike DC.

One of the reasons that I have a liking of him is that he's an unapologetic Tory cut from a similar mould to Alan Clark.

 

[nino_savatte]

What makes you say that? Johnson's been at it all his life. Whatever you think of him politically I would say his bike riding is genuine.
I have asked him about this personally (and off any kind of media record). He is a rather frank and straightforward chap and seems to genuinely love his bike etc. Of course he could be cleverly manipulating me (who is after all nobody so why would he?), but comparing him to his peers I would say he is on the level.

Well, how would I know that? He's a politician with a very big mouth and an even larger ego. Whenever I see high-profile politicians cycling or involved in something 'green', I always suspect the motives that ma lay behind the actions. Politicians are fond of photo ops and, in that regard, Johnson is no different to the others.

Personally, I am no fan of Johnson; I think he is a loathsome and detestable man.

 

[nino_savatte]

Yeah, Boris has been a bike rider for years now, unlike DC.

One of the reasons that I have a liking of him is that he's an unapologetic Tory cut from a similar mould to Alan Clark.

Aye and Alan Clark had some rather controversial views.

 

[kyser_soze]

I think he is a loathsome and detestable man.

So you've met him, talked to him? ON what grounds are you making such a scathing appraisal of someone you've never met? You know him through a media lens and that's it.

As I've said, I don't agree with his views but having met the guy a couple of times at least he HAS views, and as a person I thought he was alright - the same way I think that lots of people on here have tosspot views politically but are OK people (and I would imagine the same applies from them to me too).

 

[corporate whore]

having met the guy a couple of times

So is he an amiable buffoon or is that just his public persona? Do you think, having looked him in the eye, that he's capable of understanding and reacting to the many and varied needs of Londoners?

ETA - genuine question, 'cos it looks a bit confrontational..

 

[nino_savatte]

So you've met him, talked to him? ON what grounds are you making such a scathing appraisal of someone you've never met? You know him through a media lens and that's it.

As I've said, I don't agree with his views but having met the guy a couple of times at least he HAS views, and as a person I thought he was alright - the same way I think that lots of people on here have tosspot views politically but are OK people (and I would imagine the same applies from them to me too).

Since when did I have to "meet" someone to form an opinion of them - particularly as he has such a high media profile? I never once met Tony Blair but I think he is also detestable. I am sure you held similar views regarding Blair....or did you meet him too?

I am sure many on this thread, who have expressed admiration for Johnson have probably never met him either.

 

[kyser_soze]

I don't detest Blair as a human being - I have no respect for his politics or what he's done in lying to the country, but since I've never had personal contact with him no, I don't 'detest' him. You have an opinion on his policies, not the person.

 

[nino_savatte]

I don't detest Blair as a human being - I have no respect for his politics or what he's done in lying to the country, but since I've never had personal contact with him no, I don't 'detest' him. You have an opinion on his policies, not the person.

But, would you not agree, that those who have expressed a liking for Johnson have also never once met him? He has a media-friendly image, true, but beyond that?

 

[kyser_soze]

I'd say the same - I really can't get my head around the idea that someone can hold an opinion on what someone is like as a person - how they are to their friends, their family, their colleagues - be it positive or negative. I also feel that such false intimacy, as much a function of the media as it is, also helps to give rise to the tendency toward dehumanising those we dislike (see my comments on the last couple of racism threads) - you conflate the whole human being from the sum of their representations, which is the same process that causes racism. Saying 'All Tories are scum' shows the same thought process that lies behind 'Chavscum' - it's grouping individuals together under a convenient label and dehumanising them because it's easier to hate something that's faceless...saying 'Supporting Tory policy shows a tendencey toward scumminess'

Fuck me, I'm turning into pembrokestephen...

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Well, how would I know that? He's a politician with a very big mouth and an even larger ego. Whenever I see high-profile politicians cycling or involved in something 'green', I always suspect the motives that ma lay behind the actions. Politicians are fond of photo ops and, in that regard, Johnson is no different to the others.

Personally, I am no fan of Johnson; I think he is a loathsome and detestable man.

Well I think jumping to conclusions about somebody because of their political orientation or occupation is a bit much if you are just going to reply with "Well how was I supposed to know that".



Personally I think he's ok as a person but I'm not voting Tory any day soon. I can also see why he annoys people but he doesn't pretend to be anything he is not and is not putting on an act for the camera (like most of the politicians I interview) which I find refreshing.

 

[George & Bill]

Whenever I see high-profile politicians cycling or involved in something 'green', I always suspect the motives that may lay behind the actions. Politicians are fond of photo ops and, in that regard, Johnson is no different to the others.

I agree, but you presented this broad suspicion as if it were some kind of inside line:

Like Cameron, Johnson's bike-riding is little more than a PR stunt.

Don't believe the hype!

Even though other people had already told you that they knew Johnson rode a bike when the cameras weren't around, you still seemed to think that your general suspicion was more trusworthy than other people's specific information.

If I may say so, you are a bit of a tosser as well!

 

[George & Bill]

I'd say the same - I really can't get my head around the idea that someone can hold an opinion on what someone is like as a person - how they are to their friends, their family, their colleagues - be it positive or negative. I also feel that such false intimacy, as much a function of the media as it is, also helps to give rise to the tendency toward dehumanising those we dislike (see my comments on the last couple of racism threads) - you conflate the whole human being from the sum of their representations, which is the same process that causes racism. Saying 'All Tories are scum' shows the same thought process that lies behind 'Chavscum' - it's grouping individuals together under a convenient label and dehumanising them because it's easier to hate something that's faceless...saying 'Supporting Tory policy shows a tendencey toward scumminess'

OTOH, I don't see why you need to know what someone is like personally in order to deem them in some sense detestable. If my mum went into a school and opened fire on a classroom full of kids, I would have to concede that the view of people who had seen her on the news and called her a detestable human being was correct, even though I would know what a nice person she could also be.

That is to say, a person can be legitimately described as detestable on the basis both of their acts and their nature, and just because someone is detestable does not mean to say they are not also likeable.

 

[kyser_soze]

in some sense detestable

But you have to specify what sense - and you're using a somewhat extreme example as well! My point is that to express detest at someone you've never met or known on a personal level, rather than for their ideas/actions dehumanises them and isn't good for anyone.

Hell, I'm as guilty of it as anyone else, worse in some cases because I'm aware of it - I've made the journey from being racist to where I am now so I know when I'm doing it...

 

[untethered]

Boris for mayor. I can see this putting a few Tory noses out of joint, the hardworking but low-profile people that have been chasing the candidacy for months.

If a Tory gets elected, it'll certainly be a good test of how green the party is now.

Whoever gets in, I'd like to see moves towards toning down the commercialism of the city. While all cities have an economic base and London is a particularly significant commercial centre, there are places in which those considerations override all others (eg. in planning). Stricter control on public advertising would be very good.

 

[kyser_soze]

toning down the commercialism of the city

For 2000 years the whole PURPOSE of London has been commercialism...

 

[untethered]

For 2000 years the whole PURPOSE of London has been commercialism...

Sadly that's true, but it'd be good to see a mayor restore a bit of balance and show that life is about more than just getting and spending.

 

[kyser_soze]

So the fact that London has more free art galleries, parks, museums etc than any capital city in Europe doesn't create a balance? Do you not get out much in London or something?

 

[untethered]

So the fact that London has more free art galleries, parks, museums etc than any capital city in Europe doesn't create a balance? Do you not get out much in London or something?

I'm well aware of such things, but even those are often tainted by commercialism.

I'll have to think up some specific proposals, but restricting Sunday trading further, limiting opening hours generally, banning street advertising would all be steps in the right direction.

 

[Skim]

restricting Sunday trading further, limiting opening hours generally, banning street advertising would all be steps in the right direction.

I have no idea what Johnson's plans are for London – does anyone? – but you can be sure he won't be restricting Sunday trading hours or banning street advertising. Those aren't even issues specific to London...

 

[Dan U]

A least Ken has a fight on his hands for once.

In the eyes of many Londoners Boris is at least as big a joke as Livingstone was when he first ran for mayor.

I think he might win if he distances himself considerably from Tory HQ.

 

[kyser_soze]

I don't think Livingstone running for mayor was seen by a joke by anyone except possibly a bad one in the eyes of Anthony Blair - he was basically a shoe-in the first time out, and while there's a humourous perception of him, I don't think anyone's ever viewed KL as an aimiable buffoon...

 

[Dan U]

I don't think Livingstone running for mayor was seen by a joke by anyone except possibly a bad one in the eyes of Anthony Blair - he was basically a shoe-in the first time out, and while there's a humourous perception of him, I don't think anyone's ever viewed KL as an aimiable buffoon...

I think a lot of the older generation who remembered the GLC and the way it was portrayed at it's demise blanched a little at the prospect of 'Ken for Mayor'

But London is a young city and the leopard changed his spots.

 

[untethered]

shoe-in

It's shoo-in. The allusion is to herding animals, not footwear.

 

[kyser_soze]

Meh, one vowel out and it still made sense...