Bolivia - Is Revolution on the Agenda?

Discussion in 'Wales/Cymru' started by Udo Erasmus, Aug 10, 2005.

  1. Udo Erasmus

    Udo Erasmus Well-Known Member

    Socialist Worker Public Meeting -

    Bolivia - is revolution on the agenda?
    Speaker - Chris Bambery (Editor of Socialist Worker)

    Wednesday 7th September 7.30 pm
    O'Neill's Bar, Trinity Street, Cardiff
    (nr the Hayes and by back entrance to Indoor Market)

    Marxist Discussion Forums

    War and Poverty: The Two Faces of Imperialism
    Speaker - Jonathan Jones
    Wednesday 17 August @ 7.30
    Cathays Community Centre
    Cathays Terrace
    Cardiff
    (Just past Woodville Pub)

    Can "Fair Trade" Change the World?
    Speaker - Rion Hall
    Wednesday 24 August @ 7.30 pm
    Cathays Community Centre
     
  2. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    is socialism on the agenda at these untoward meetings?
     
  3. roger rosewall

    roger rosewall New Member

    The meetings are being held by the Socialist Workers Party so I expect that there will be some passing mention of socialism. Perhaps if the speaker has a good memory there might even be a mention of workers. It is certain that there will be a Respectful mention of George Galloway.

    But in what sense are these meetings untoward?
     
  4. Col_Buendia

    Col_Buendia sort code

    Here's a clue for you from the OED:

    The SWP 'disinclined' towards socialism? The SWP showing a 'lack of proficiency' or being 'inept'? The SWP 'perverse'??

    Shurely shome mishtake, Pickman's?
     
  5. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

  6. Udo Erasmus

    Udo Erasmus Well-Known Member

  7. roger rosewall

    roger rosewall New Member

    Why the smileys?
     
  8. Udo Erasmus

    Udo Erasmus Well-Known Member

  9. Col_Buendia

    Col_Buendia sort code

    Although that's just a naked bump, it is the first post of yours that has made me laugh! ;)

    Y'must have had them roundglasses cleaned, eh? You've seen the light...
     
  10. roger rosewall

    roger rosewall New Member

    Again. Why the smiley's?
     
  11. osterberg

    osterberg Well-Known Member

    I'm smiling because it was a lovely meeting :) :) :)
     
  12. Col_Buendia

    Col_Buendia sort code

    Pray do tell more.
     
  13. roger rosewall

    roger rosewall New Member

    Did Bam Bam advocate a united front with the Muslim Association of Bolivia?
     
  14. osterberg

    osterberg Well-Known Member

    He wasn't there.That's why it was a lovely meeting :)
     
  15. Col_Buendia

    Col_Buendia sort code

    You don't mean to say that he failed to show "inclination, disposition, or readiness" for the meeting?

    Goodness, Pickman's is more prescient than I suspected. :eek:
     
  16. osterberg

    osterberg Well-Known Member

    He was double booked and replaced by a human being. ;)
    About a dozen or so people at the meeting.
    The standard SWP line on Bolivia which I don't really disagree with(have a look at their paper or website).
    So not very controversial but I found it interesting.
     
  17. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    please don't in future pretend to know anything about my movements.

    i wasn't there cos i knew it would be full of fuckwit wankers.
     
  18. osterberg

    osterberg Well-Known Member

    I was referring to Chris Bambury,not your good self,Pickman.
     
  19. Col_Buendia

    Col_Buendia sort code

    PM = Chris Bambery??

    Bugger me, now I've heard everything, and in the Wales forum'n'all :D
     
  20. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    :mad:
     
  21. Col_Buendia

    Col_Buendia sort code

    Wossat then? That the filthy ignorant peasant masses will have to buckle down to a bit of serious school discipline in order to learn how to read in order to get a proper job instead of all this coca-planting, in order to earn the money in order to buy the paper (you know which one I mean!) in order to understand how to have a proper revolution like the one the SWP have staged many's a time in Hyde Park?

    Or was there a change in policy, seeing as Pickman's wasn't at the meeting? :D
     
  22. anfield

    anfield We are Sparta F.C.

    Any working-class people at the meeting?
     
  23. Col_Buendia

    Col_Buendia sort code

    Any Bolivians? More to the point :mad:
     
  24. roger rosewall

    roger rosewall New Member

    The SWP line on Bolivia? Oh yeah, that would be to applaud the struggles in that country as inspirational. Quite true and quite lacking in any real point in relation to the class struggle in this country. A topic the SWP has but scant interest in.

    As a matter of curiousity who replaced dear Bam Bam? I had thought of attending actually as a friend would like to know what happened to the Glasgow IMG's treasury when Bam Bam changed allegiances (if not politics).
     
  25. osterberg

    osterberg Well-Known Member

    I've got a job ;) .
    As for the Bolivian 'line' read the paper.
    There was not just applause for the 'inspiring' Bolivian working class but their central role,discusions about 'dual power',what the role of a revolutionary party would be etc.
    I'm not the SWP's biggest fan but they're not all bad.
    The anti-war movement would be weaker without them.
     
  26. osterberg

    osterberg Well-Known Member

    The speaker was Candy Udwin by the way.Someone with actual T.U experience unlike most SWP fulltimers.Better speaker than Bambury anyway.
     
  27. Udo Erasmus

    Udo Erasmus Well-Known Member

  28. roger rosewall

    roger rosewall New Member

    Always a good read Harman senior. But this is a particularly weak article. A few examples of what I mean.

    1 There is no discussion of the weakness of the call for a Constituent Assembly and what that means in a country in which the central tasks of the bourgeois revolution have been achieved.

    2 The reference to Lora's POR as the historical party of the Bolivian working class is naive given that this sect has managed to act like a mensheviks in not one but two revolutionary crisies. (For details of the former see issue of Revolutionary History journal devoted to the topic.)

    3 Crucially there is no discussion of the populism of Evo Morales and MAS. Hardly surprising this given that the SWP is sinking into the swamp of populism in Britain where such a politics has far less basis than in Bolivia.
     
  29. roger rosewall

    roger rosewall New Member

    The anti-war movement would have been stronger if the SWP had not diverted the energies of its own militants, and those of dying sects like the ISG, into building Respect the populist coailition.

    The anti-war movement would have been stronger if the SWP had adopted the approach it habitually adopted, until recently, of directing its militants to fight against the war within the working class as its first priority rather than calling for pointless impotent peace crawls through London.

    I would take the SWP more seriously on Bolivia if its members fought to build a revolutionary party within the working class in Britain instead of diverting their energies into building Respect as a vehicle for the careers of Galloway, Yacoob and, they hope, the Rees-German clique.

    A course that is slowly but surely destroying the SWP as certainly as cancer destroys the host organism.
     
  30. Udo Erasmus

    Udo Erasmus Well-Known Member

    If you had been at the meeting, a key point in Candy Udwin's talk was discussing the conservative influence of Evo Morales - who at one stage was a militant, but now was acting to put a break on the revolution.

    For example Candy outlined how when the movement called for nationalisation of the oil and gas, Morales only called for a tax on oil and exposed how Morales only made the demand for a constituent assembly as an alternative to a popular revolutionary assembly that was being called for by the mass movement, and discussed how Morales orientation towards elections and not wanting to jepordise support from the Bolivian middle classes had led him astray.

    Or as Chris Harman puts it:
    "An important factor in the months of impasse was the way, as also in past revolutionary upheavals, that certain political figures and formations which had helped to lead the movement forward at previous stages no longer did. Indigenous leaders like Felipe Quispe of the Union of Peasant Workers had played an important role in articulating the indigenous grievances against the Spanish speaking white elite who dominated official politics. But they allowed justified resentment at past treatment by the mestizo (mixed race Spanish speaking) section of the masses to divert them from pushing forward the struggle against the common enemy.


    Evo Morales and his MAS party were the other channel for indigenous bitterness, calling for a constituent assembly to remould the country's political institutions so as to reflect its ethnic make-up. But dazzled by Morales's vote in 2002, they followed a strategy of keeping Mesa in power so that Morales would have an eventual chance of succeeding him by 'constitutional means' in 2007 and urged a 'yes' vote in Mesa's gas referendum."


    Or as Chris Bambery summed up the situation: "Common sense vs. Good sense in the Bolivan Uprising

    "Bolivia was in the grip of a classic revolutionary situation last week. Popular assemblies spread across working class areas. Mass strikes combined with peasant rebellions. Insurrection was in the air and sections of the police fraternised with the insurgents.

    Yet, for the moment, the movement seems to have receded following the promise of elections.

    Going home to prepare for elections looks like common sense. Yet good sense would be to demand that the popular assemblies take power, securing the nationalisation of Bolivia’s gas and breaking the hold of neo-liberalism.

    In the clash between the two, all the forces of common sense — from the media through to trade union officials — have an established hold. To overcome this, networks of activists, rooted in their workplaces and communities, need to win the argument for good sense.

    Imprisoned after the fascist victory in Italy, the Marxist Antonio Gramsci looked back at the revolutionary situation which gripped the country in 1920 and wrote, “The decisive element in every situation is the permanently organised and long prepared force which can be put into the field when it is judged that a situation is favourable.

    “Therefore the essential task is that of systematically and patiently ensuring that this force is formed, developed, and rendered ever more homogeneous.”

    He was urging the creation of a revolutionary party before the moment of revolution arrives. Such a party must be an intrinsic part of the working class and the oppressed, involved in a constant dialogue with them. And it must be a party made up of those capable of leading on the streets, the picket lines and the barricades."
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice