BNP: What will we do next?

[treelover]

Just looked at the pictures for the anti-bnp protests: organised by the SWP/UAF again doing thier vampire bit, attempting to recruit and parasiting off the issue.

it seemed like mostly young people and students, forgive me for generalisations, but i wonder how many of these have ventured onto the big council estates on the periphery of their Cities to ask what people there feel, how they live their lives, etc, how they live on next to nothing, a few maybe, social workers, but not the majority.

in my local paper, it does look like a real debate is happening, something very rare.

http://www.thestar.co.uk/headlines/Race-relations-crisis--after.5346504.jp

 

[berniedicters]

again, explain the difference then?

Well, I suppose it depends on the definitions people are using for "mass immigration" and "open borders".

I would take the view that "mass immigration", particularly if it's being used to describe some aspect of government policy, implies a proactive effort to bring immigrants into the country - or at the very least, a tacit acceptance that they will do so.

"Open borders", on the other hand, seems to me to imply something like what the rest of Europe has post-Schengen - it is possible to pass freely across such borders with a minimum of formalities.

While I'll accept that open borders may well offer increased potential for illegal immigration, I don't think that the terms should be regarded as equivalent in regard to describing government policy - I think that doing so represents the same kind of disingenuousness that the representation of the UK as some kind of crime-ridden hellhole, or the skewing of those crime statistics to put disproportionate blame onto ethnic minorities, is.

 

[berniedicters]

Just looked at the pictures for the anti-bnp protests: organised by the SWP/UAF again doing thier vampire bit, attempting to recruit and parasiting off the issue.

Isn't your using this debate to push your, ah, somewhat right-of-centre viewpoint equally "parasiting off the issue"? Not that I'm saying that it's wrong, just that the irony of someone who is clearly doing the same thing complaining about other groups doing it is just too delicious to be allowed to pass unremarked...

 

[treelover]

Isn't your using this debate to push your, ah, somewhat right-of-centre viewpoint equally "parasiting off the issue"? Not that I'm saying that it's wrong, just that the irony of someone who is clearly doing the same thing complaining about other groups doing it is just too delicious to be allowed to pass unremarked...

do fuck off, i am probably more 'left wing' than you are or have been, i spent three years trying to interest and persuade the left to take the issue of the welfare reforms, I bust a gut campaigning, but with a few exceptions, to no avail. Yet, the WR's when implemted will see even more WC people looking for scapegoats. Anyway, to want a robust but humane immigration policy is not right wing, or it isn'yt outside of the liberal left dreamland, plenty of new left policies like the Dutch socialist Party have accepted this,

btw, what have you done about the Welfare Reforms's?

 

[berniedicters]

do fuck off, i am probably more 'left wing' than you are or have been, i spent three years trying to interest and persuade the left to take the issue of the welfare reforms, I bust a gut campaigning, but with a few exceptions, to no avail. Yet, the WR's when implemted will see even more WC people looking for scapegoats. Anyway, to want a robust but humane immigration policy is not right wing, or it isn'yt outside of the liberal left dreamland, plenty of new left policies like the Dutch socialist Party have accepted this,

btw, what have you done about the Welfare Reforms's?

Absolutely fuck all. Should I? And why do you ask?

 

[TremulousTetra]

Just looked at the pictures for the anti-bnp protests: organised by the SWP/UAF again doing thier vampire bit, attempting to recruit and parasiting off the issue.

it seemed like mostly young people and students, forgive me for generalisations, but i wonder how many of these have ventured onto the big council estates on the periphery of their Cities to ask what people there feel, how they live their lives, etc, how they live on next to nothing, a few maybe, social workers, but not the majority.

in my local paper, it does look like a real debate is happening, something very rare.

http://www.thestar.co.uk/headlines/Race-relations-crisis--after.5346504.jp

And this is what SW has said they have been waiting for. A grassroots campaign, for which there is already a structure in place which can fund and enable activity.

 

[TremulousTetra]

do fuck off, i am probably more 'left wing' than you are or have been, i spent three years trying to interest and persuade the left to take the issue of the welfare reforms, I bust a gut campaigning, but with a few exceptions, to no avail. Yet, the WR's when implemted will see even more WC people looking for scapegoats. ,

btw, what have you done about the Welfare Reforms's?

we've all been there.

Anyway, to want a robust but humane immigration policy is not right wing, or it isn'yt outside of the liberal left dreamland, plenty of new left policies like the Dutch socialist Party have accepted this

I honestly hope it works. But I honestly think it is pie in the sky.

 

[treelover]

@Agnes

Because it is only by tackling the issues that are fueling the far rights rise that they will be pushed back into oblivion: when millions of people are forced to compete under thrreat of losing their benefits, etc for minimum wage jobs with migrants from around the world, watch them look for scapegoats..

 

[embree]

In my view the Greens have completely ignored one of the main things missing from contemporary British politics. Grass roots democracy. Mucking around claiming "we have no leaders" and then presenting Jean Lambert as leader in all but name is the very opposite of democratic. Democracy relies on open information. To appeal to the disenfranchised you have to first make them feel you are being honest with them. The Green Party has fallen at that first hurdle.

What a lot of people want is a party in which they can feel a real connection with policy making. A party that has the guts to allow every member to have input into policy. A party that is willing to actually debate issues BEFORE presenting them as policy. The Green Party has tried to present itself as different from other parties, but has never considered recreating itself as a grass roots led movement. Unless it does it will always be marginal. That may not be a bad thing. Perhaps that's what its membership wants. I don't believe the leadership the Green Party pretends not to have know whether or not that's the case.

Greens have a leader - she's called Caroline Lucas

 

[ericjarvis]

Greens have a leader - she's called Caroline Lucas

For the last six months or so. I shall wait and see if it makes a difference.

 

[badco]

blackmail or terrorism seems the only feesible means of thwarting the BNP...

 

[butchersapron]

What made you like this? Just out yourself FFS.

 

[berniedicters]

blackmail or terrorism seems the only feesible means of thwarting the BNP...

Feh. Again, it would only play into their hands, assuming for one tiny moment that this is a serious suggestion...

 

[butchersapron]

Feh. Again, it would only play into their hands, assuming for one tiny moment that this is a serious suggestion...

No, he's a BNP supporter who hate pakis but won't admit it in public - on here anyway. Therefore all opposition is blackmail or terrorism.

 

[berniedicters]

No, he's a BNP supporter who hate pakis but won't admit it in public - on here anyway. Therefore all opposition is blackmail or terrorism.

Quite I'm still chuckling at their attempt to squeeze their supporters for more cash by claiming to have been on the receiving end of a massive DoS attack on their websites. No victim status is too deep to plumb if it's about milking a bit more £££ out of your gullible fanbase, seemingly...

 

[Badgers]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8091605.stm

 

[DotCommunist]

Anyone hear Nick's victory speech? The language was textbook fash metaphors and rhetoric

http://www.bnp-chronicle.com/2009/06/nick-griffins-victory-speech.html

 

[badco]

So why have the BNP done well then?Must be protest votes eh?

 

[butchersapron]

So why have the BNP done well then?Must be protest votes eh?

Come out, come out, we won't judge you you paki hating fuck. Be honest with us.

 

[trevhagl]

So why have the BNP done well then?Must be protest votes eh?

People are full of hate , Labour is doing nothing about unemployment, they are continuing with the same failed policies ie privatisation of the post office, ID cards, ..... they TALK about listening but DON'T . So those not too clued up with what the BNP stand for see the message "British jobs for British workers" and as long as they're white probably think "well thats got to be better than what we have now"....

even though the reality would be even worse - the nazis support workfare (like New Labour), a police state (even worse than the one NL want) and any money "saved" on immigrants would be spend on extra jails, customs officers, police . Not to mention the country would end up in a civil war and democracy scrapped.

 

[badco]

People are full of hate , Labour is doing nothing about unemployment, they are continuing with the same failed policies ie privatisation of the post office, ID cards, ..... they TALK about listening but DON'T . So those not too clued up with what the BNP stand for see the message "British jobs for British workers" and as long as they're white probably think "well thats got to be better than what we have now".....

You don't think it's got anything to do with the open borders with other EU countries then?

 

[berniedicters]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8091605.stm

I must confess that I found this funny. There's something very gratifying about seeing a bunch of muscle-bound bootboys put on the back foot by a co-ordinated demo like that, and they did well to achieve it.

But the idea that we're tackling a party whose stated aim is to remove all kinds of rights and privileges from one section of the population by removing their own right to assemble and express their views, no matter how repellent...this troubles me somewhat.

Perhaps I should just not think about it, and enjoy the egging

 

[Badgers]

Perhaps I should just not think about it, and enjoy the egging

Apply this rule to all things in life and the troubles go away.
Unless you live in Afghanistan

 

[butchersapron]

muscle bound bootboys? did you watch it?

 

[Roadkill]

Perhaps I should just not think about it, and enjoy the egging

This.

Just look at the stupid cunt.

 

[trevhagl]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8091605.stm

MAD!! esp the bit where Griffin says it was organised by New labour and that even Dave Cameron is signed up to the antifascists!!
Does that mean Lib Dems control Antifa !!!!

 

[trevhagl]

This.

Just look at the stupid cunt.

Look at the faces on his minders, they say

"But Nick, why can't we just use weapons on the red scum like the old days?"

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Compare the performance of Nick Griffin here (in particular the second video clip half way down the page) with that of Sarah Cavanagh from UAF on radio 4's PM programme (it's the lead item but you'll have to wait now until it comes up on listen again). Who sounds the more reasonable and articulate? It's also worth casting an eye over the comments on the PM Blog to see the variety of ways the action has been understood; for what it's worth the majority aren't impressed.

Louis MacNeice

 

[Phenotypic Dai]

The daft fucker just popped up on Sky news.

He said that the plod were under secret orders from the Home office not to save him from an egging.

 

[brasicritique]

Hang about - the greens increased their vote share 44%. I wouldn't call that "going wrong" ...

True, however IMO the green vote is predominantly middleclass while the bnp vote is in general terms predominantly working class. I think if the election results show us anything its as a reminder that the labour party was orignally formed as an uneasy coalition between middleclass and working class interests. These class interests are now diverging as the middleclass have never had it so good and are the main beneficeries of globalisation. If the work can be done cheaper abroad ( or the production process is cheaper ) or even dare i say it for example a polish plumber can do the work cheaper than a british plumber then guess what. Its the race to the bottom and as demonstrated here on urban middlebritain is good on ethical 'green/social' rhetoric poor to the point of out right lying, in terms concrete idea policy and actually giving a shit.


If you look at those who have lost there jobs lately then apart from the odd banker , these job loses have affted the low skilled , those in retail, and high skilled working class industry - building trade , and those such as the car industry ( look at LDV and how vauxhall appear to be going..). The 'professional class' and the odd property speculator have gone from strength to strength. Not one of our posh oxbridge think tank fuckwits or self appointed media 'opinion formers' seem to have an idea about what to do faced with the impact of global economics. Still maybe this is why all i come across lately by talking to friends who work in a vareity of fields are tales about the growing amount of 'policing of people' they have to do in there job.