BNP theorist proposes return to the streets

[JHE]

If internety gossipy forum places are any guide in these matters, Lee Barnes is widely regarded as a fool and a liability by members of his own party and it puzzles them that Griffin still favours Barnes.

I suppose the kindest interpretation of Barnes' suggestion to the NF is that it's just Barnes' way of asking the NF not to stand against the BNP. I think there have been one or two places where there have been candidates from both groups. On that interpretation, the talk of street protests is just Barnes' way of pretending to the NF that they have something useful to do.

I don't know, though - I think there may be more in the idea that Barnes is an blithering idiot and a liability to the BNP.

 

[8ball]

Exactly what does a 'return to the streets mean'?

 

[JHE]

Exactly what does a 'return to the streets mean'?

It means they are all going to sell their bodies to lewd people for naughty and unhygienic purposes. The things people will do to help party funds! Ooooooh. It doesn't bear thinking about.

 

[8ball]

It means they are all going to sell their bodies to lewd people for naughty and unhygienic purposes to raise money. The things people will do to help party funds! Ooooooh. It doesn't bear thinking about.

Ah, right.

That makes sense. They'll make a lot of cash what with being such an attractive bunch and all.

 

[SuperNovav2.0]

Lee John Barnes is a moron, I'd be shocked if he had any serious imput to how the BNP does business. Why Nick has him around is beyond my comprehension. He really needs to stop talking about nationalist working together aswell seeing as this is a guy who posted details of stormfront members on his blog.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

Lee John Barnes is a moron, I'd be shocked if he had any serious imput to how the BNP does business. Why Nick has him around is beyond my comprehension. He really needs to stop talking about nationalist working together aswell seeing as this is a guy who posted details of stormfront members on his blog.

 

[FreddyB]

Lee John Barnes is a moron, I'd be shocked if he had any serious imput to how the BNP does business. Why Nick has him around is beyond my comprehension. He really needs to stop talking about nationalist working together aswell seeing as this is a guy who posted details of stormfront members on his blog.

Champagne?

 

[THINK!]

There is a "theory", idea amongst BNP stratagists that groups like SWP and it's off shoots and other Left-wing groups and there off-shoots act, in effect (as they are never going to get power), act as nothing more than the Labour Party's Boot-Boys and now they want some of their own.

 

[ViolentPanda]

There is a "theory", idea amongst BNP stratagists that groups like SWP and it's off shoots and other Left-wing groups and there off-shoots act, in effect (as they are never going to get power), act as nothing more than the Labour Party's Boot-Boys and now they want some of their own I think.

Nah, even the BNP aren't addle-brained enough to think that the Swappies or any of their satellites go in for squaddism any more. They purged any elements that were that way inclined a couple if decades ago.

 

[JimPage]

Nah, even the BNP aren't addle-brained enough to think that the Swappies or any of their satellites go in for squaddism any more. They purged any elements that were that way inclined a couple if decades ago.

I wouldnt call Barnes a theorist, as they dont let him anywhere near their theoretical journal- but he is an occasional sounding board for their wackier ideas, so see how it goes down

This is partly to recruit some of the more polticial elements of the NF to the BNP after the Euros, and to encourage the rest to continue their travelling circus to tie up antifascists, while they get on with politics

As to the SWP and Squaddism, they may or may not be going beyond their current bloodcurdling talk , but at Parliament the other week, they went round rather than through the BNP security team

 

[sonny61]

I wouldnt call Barnes a theorist, as they dont let him anywhere near their theoretical journal- but he is an occasional sounding board for their wackier ideas, so see how it goes down

This is partly to recruit some of the more polticial elements of the NF to the BNP after the Euros, and to encourage the rest to continue their travelling circus to tie up antifascists, while they get on with politics

As to the SWP and Squaddism, they may or may not be going beyond their current bloodcurdling talk , but at Parliament the other week, they went round rather than through the BNP security team

Problem with the old tactics on the 1970's and 1980's Jim, such as squaddism, is that we are now much more of a surveillance society, through the use of CCTV.
Simon Darby on his blog is bragging he spent 5 hour in a London police station, giving statements about the attack on the BNP's press conference.
He claims the police are taking the incident seriously, and on their web site they claim the police travelled to Wales to interview Griffin.

The SWPers who attacked the BNP's press conference, looked to be guilty of assault and violent disorder, both can carry jail terms. You can bet the police will have their own clips of the incident from CCTV, as well the media coverage.
Look at the arrest months after the anti Israeli protests at the beginning of the year, through the use of CCTV.

Shouting 'Nazi' at people going to BNP meetings will achieve the opposite of what anti fascists protesters want.
The SWP seemed to be proxies of Labour's fight against the BNP, even if they are not aware they are so.

 

[JHE]

The SWPers who attacked the BNP's press conference, looked to be guilty of assault and violent disorder, both can carry jail terms. You can bet the police will have their own clips of the incident from CCTV, as well the media coverage.

But will plod put in the time and effort? I doubt it.

 

[sonny61]

But will plod put in the time and effort? I doubt it.

To be honest I don't know.

 

[goosegrease]

I can't use that link, I think it's been removed.
Speaking general terms. I have seen how the BNP can attract violent youths, they just seem to turn up and act intimidatingly towards anti fash.
Could the NF see an opportinity is scooping up these potential recriuts and organise them while the BNP do the "respectable work". If the link is ever questioned the NF and BNP can distance themselves from each other as two seperrate and unconected organisations?
They aint gonna make a public statement of a new alliance between the them.

Just a thought

 

[Citizen66]

I can't use that link, I think it's been removed.

There's two spaces that need to be removed.

Try this:

http://leejohnbarnes.****blogspot.com/2009/0****6/transition-point-for-nationalism.html

remove the **** and **** in the address bar.

 

[JimPage]

Problem with the old tactics on the 1970's and 1980's Jim, such as squaddism, is that we are now much more of a surveillance society, through the use of CCTV. .

And thats onE of the reasons why what worked in the 30's 70's and 80's will not work now. I am not discounting that every now and again, the SWP may come by a small group of fash in a side street and deal with them in a traditional manner, but they have lost sight of the ability of the BNP to go round problems, not go through them.

Say their street paper sales. They are very rarely in the same place and time every week, and if they are, it is in view of CCTV.

I dont think it is particularly hard. moral or brave to wind up younger activists to end themselves up in prison. If Weyman Bennett really thinks that a return to the Squad days is justified, let him lead from the front, and not from behind a megaphone

 

[Bakunin]

I dont think it is particularly hard. moral or brave to wind up younger activists to end themselves up in prison. If Weyman Bennett really thinks that a return to the Squad days is justified, let him lead from the front, and not from behind a megaphone

Given how the SWP leadership at the time treated the Squads way back when, and given the fact that sheltering behind a megaphone while sending younger and less experienced activists out to do their bidding for them, thus neatly avoiding any risk to their oh-so-important selves, is much more their style, I doubt very much that the Swappie leadership will try to lead from the front.

 

[treelover]

he SWP may come by a small group of fash in a side street and deal with them in a traditional manner,

The SWP i know would largely be incapable of that and would more likely instead get a good hiding themselves.

 

[The39thStep]

The SWP i know would largely be incapable of that and would more likely instead get a good hiding themselves.

The same would be said of the BNP members

 

[Pickman's model]

Given how the SWP leadership at the time treated the Squads way back when, and given the fact that sheltering behind a megaphone while sending younger and less experienced activists out to do their bidding for them, thus neatly avoiding any risk to their oh-so-important selves, is much more their style, I doubt very much that the Swappie leadership will try to lead from the front.

ah! but they will! in swp-speak, the front is at the rear. which explains a lot about them.

 

[goosegrease]

There's two spaces that need to be removed.

Try this:

http://leejohnbarnes.****blogspot.com/2009/0****6/transition-point-for-nationalism.html

remove the **** and **** in the address bar.

Thank you.
Having read it now it does appear to be an appeal to the NF to step out the BNP's way and become the street wing of the nationalist movement. Go back to my point that there probably are the youths to scoop up into nationalist squads and put fascist flesh on the bones of their anger.
OK, it is more dificult to organise street fighting squads nowdays with CCTV on every street corner. But it's not impossible.
Barnes seems to be making the point that a street arm of the nationalist movement could be used to counter demos of anti fash. That is pheesable even if the police could keep one logistical step ahead of both.
My personal view is to see how things develop in this respect.

 

[LLETSA]

It could even be that, in doing this publically, Barnes thinks he is inviting a police clampdown on both the anti's and the NF, thus removing the problem altogether.

On the other hand, it could be complete bollocks, as with almost everything else Barnes writes.

 

[butchersapron]

It's nothing really. It will have no impact on how the BNP operate (or the NF etc for that matter) - they need only continue down their current path, and they're more than awwre of this. This is just Barnes frothing.

 

[goosegrease]

It's nothing really. It will have no impact on how the BNP operate (or the NF etc for that matter) - they need only continue down their current path, and they're more than awwre of this. This is just Barnes frothing.

You are in all probability right there. It is still worth remembering that the BNP have an ultimate goal of gaining power and fundamentally changing the nature of British society, they must see that requires a bit more than having a few councellors/MEPs.
I don't want to sound like some UAFer but there may be a realisation that the bigger they get, the bigger the opposition to them will become. We don't really know what kind of culture/attitude prevails within the high ranks of the BNP or the NF.

 

[laptop]

To me, the blog posting looks exactly like a mad swappie - entirely different from any poster here, Your Honour - instructing the IWCA to get the fuck off the ballot and onto the streets.

Pure sectarianism, in other words. With that "I'm so clever" flavour that proves the contrary. It's cheered me up

 

[goosegrease]

To me, the blog posting looks exactly like a mad swappie - entirely different from any poster here, Your Honour - instructing the IWCA to get the fuck off the ballot and onto the streets.

Pure sectarianism, in other words. With that "I'm so clever" flavour that proves the contrary. It's cheered me up

Was gonna make a clever comment but I'm not that clever. If the SWP were on the streets of my town I'd open up bottle of voddy and shout abuse at them from a bench, if the NF were on the streets I'd be very, very sober.

 

[Random]

It is still worth remembering that the BNP have an ultimate goal of gaining power and fundamentally changing the nature of British society

So did the Labour Party until they junked Clause 4.

 

[Rod Sleeves]

Is Lee Barnes the BNP's Frank Field?

 

[ViolentPanda]

You are in all probability right there. It is still worth remembering that the BNP have an ultimate goal of gaining power and fundamentally changing the nature of British society, they must see that requires a bit more than having a few councellors/MEPs.
I don't want to sound like some UAFer but there may be a realisation that the bigger they get, the bigger the opposition to them will become. We don't really know what kind of culture/attitude prevails within the high ranks of the BNP or the NF.

Thing is, you're operating under the assumption that the BNP need to "gain power" in order to change "the nature of British society", when in fact all they need is to find the right fulcrum point. They don't need to "gain power", just to be heard by the "right" people (pardon the pun!) at the "right" time in order to effect change.
In fact we could argue that they're already effecting change, given the policy shifts of the major parties and the "headless chicken" behaviour displayed by some pols.

 

[goosegrease]

Thing is, you're operating under the assumption that the BNP need to "gain power" in order to change "the nature of British society", when in fact all they need is to find the right fulcrum point. They don't need to "gain power", just to be heard by the "right" people (pardon the pun!) at the "right" time in order to effect change.
In fact we could argue that they're already effecting change, given the policy shifts of the major parties and the "headless chicken" behaviour displayed by some pols.

The BNP does have the ability to influence the major parties and they are having little trouble of appealing the right people right now.
Like I say, we don't know what the BNP strategists are really thinking but I suspect they are looking to be more than a pressure group.
I'm yet to come across any political party that has no ambition of gaining power and carrying out it's program and I dont have any reason to believe the BNP are different.