BNP membership 25% down

[Groucho]

The NF's tactic back then of course was to kick their way into the headlines. Kicking each other on occasions I recall. The BNP are careful to avoid such tactics at present. That's left to racist gangs.

Well they had an electoral strategy and attempted under Tyndall's leadership to ditch the thug image and put on a suited front. It got them significant electoraol support in some areas, especially in the GLC elections. When the violence started much of their softer support drifted away.

Of course racist gangs and BNP membership overlap somewhat but BNP do try to distance themselves from the activities of some of their members - when they get caught.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I think it's probably the more hard-core NF fellows leaving to do more NFfing now that Griffin has moderated their tones within the BNP.

I think you're right.

It's been well-known for years now that Griffin want's to shed the boneheads and appeal more to the middle classes, get some electoral "respectability". If he can shed them without provoking too much of a schism, and if they leave rather than him giving them the boot, then Griffin gets exactly what he wants, especially if the boneheads take a position further to the right which allows him to position himself as a moderate.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

I'll accept the "very true" if you would be kind enough to explain how "things" were made "worse"?

Further clarification about what you mean by the monosyllables: "things" and "worse" would help. Thanks.

The swappie front UAF set up a stall in Dagenham Heathway with the usual Asylum seekers welcome here posters 'don't vote nazi' literature etc. In an area that is undergoing profound demographic change which is being exploited by the bnp this was not a sensible thing to do. It just winds up the locals and feeds the bnp. If people see that the left is not going to help them make sense of the utter cock up that has been made of public housing by Tories and New Labour then they will unfortunately turn to the right.

Also the entire make up from what I've observed in b and d is that there is a division between those who are ambivalent to facisim, those who actively support the bnp who are locals and those who parachute in from outside or are students who make up the majority of anti bnp organisations.

It really appears to have become a situation where the locals either support the bnp or couldn't give a toss and the only opposition to them is from outsiders who don't understand the complex history of the area.

The bnp unfortunately have done the right thing politically which is to go in for the long game. They had people in the local boozers chatting and making friends. You can do far more like that than screaming 'nazi' in peoples faces.

I don't like it but it is happening.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Utter utter bollocks.
The highlighted bit in partic...
And the rest as well..
(no-ones calling me miserable..)

OK show me where Respect did well outside Muslim areas. Respect are a divisive racist party.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

if you live in B and D, why dont you join respect and push for them to take up council housing? or take on the ch organising role in the local branch?

Join Respect. I'd rather fuck myself with a wire wool covered dildo.

if you really dont like respect, then why dont you set up a defend council housing group? or is that just another swappie front you dont want to be involved in?

If I was intending to live in the shithole any longer than I have to then I probably would start my own group. I really will have nothing to do with swappie fronts though.

why dont you join labour and lobby them that way to address council housing, and campaign within them?
(on channel 4 news there was the other day a labour party policy bloke who advocated the building of council housing to combat the BNP)

Until they get rid of the useless corrupt succubus and nonces friend Margaret Hodge from the seat then N Labour is not an option for me. I agree that more council housing needs to be built as this would pull at least one of the rugs from underneath the bnp's feet but there would have to be some way of prioritising locals who have lived in the area for more than three years as a way of undermining the bnp lies.

or do the same for the lib dems iwca or the greens?

IWCA are fucked unfortunately and have no support in my area although I voted for them in the last Mayoral election. Greens I don't think havve the resources or the rapport in the area. Anti green propaganda has been quite effective and people would probably associate green politics with green snoopers checking bins for excess waste etc.

The Lib Dems have let the area down terribly. At a time when they could have picked up anti Hodge and anti bnp votes they concentrated more on middle class areas and that has been noted by a lot of people.

hell if you really dont want to join another organisation you could set up your own ch campaign group in b and d.

why dont you do something instead of bitching at the left for why theyre not doing it?

I'm not bitching about groups who do something I'm bitching about groups like Respect / SWP / UAF /(insert front group here) who do the wrong thing.

 

[grogwilton]

what i got from that was, everyone else is shit, and i cant be arsed to start my own iwca group or council housing group because im going to leave 'the shithole.'

so basically you attack respect for not putting enough work into white working class areas, and not being interested in their demands, whilst at the same time admitting you cant be bothered to do anything yourself, and will be pulling up the ladder and moving out of the area the first chance you get? pot-kettle-black.

 

[The Black Hand]

If the figures are true then ignoring them is the best thing to do!!

They have lost approx 25% of their members according to these figures while the entire anti fascist movement has done little nationally that affects this...

The figures may fluctuate somewhat, but a 25% is a significant number that needs discussing.

Are they a threat? Yes and no, they can be in very limited places, as they can physically...

A greater goal is the wider unity of progressive class struggle forces (TU's, community groups, campaigns) as a means to combat racism and fascism...

 

[KeyboardJockey]

right where shall I start.....

what i got from that was, everyone else is shit, and i cant be arsed to start my own iwca group or council housing group because im going to leave 'the shithole.'

It is not a case where everyone else is shit as you so eleoquently put it. I've done more community work than you've had hot dinners probably. I do know the score. Yes the area is a shithole. Some of the reasons why the place is a shithole is down to the people there making it a shithole (see previous posts about car vandalism etc etc) and some of it is because of the actions of the government and the local council. I'm moving out because of a relationship breakdown and I can't fucking afford to live there and I've been offered a house share with friends in North London which is 250 per month cheaper than a 1 bedroom flat in Dagenham.

so basically you attack respect for not putting enough work into white working class areas,

I do attack Respect for not paying attention to white working class areas and I also attack Respect for being a divisive party which pays lip service to ideas of socialism whilst mutating in a religious party. Religious political parties what a grand idea they are they really worked well in Northern Ireland didn't they?

and not being interested in their demands, whilst at the same time admitting you cant be bothered to do anything yourself,

Its not a case of can't be bothered it is a case of I just cannot find the energy and I've got the opportunity to move out and I have no alternative. Why should I put energy into an area I'm going to be leaving in January?

and will be pulling up the ladder and moving out of the area the first chance you get? pot-kettle-black.

Ladder pulling - my fucking arse. I've never done that and never will. Seen too much of it myself. If I could afford to stay I would have done. But the alternatives are to saddle myself with a mortgage I couldn't afford, sharing a house with a bunch of homesick Poles in Barking or pay 600 pm rent plus an extra travelcard zone. I have NO choice but to move out. So cut the ladder pulling crap will you.

If I was staying I'd do something even though I reckon its dangerous for locally based Anti facist activists.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

Nah, its all the leafleting and rallies by UAF

 

[grogwilton]

from what youve said about your situation, i can see why you wouldnt be doing anything at the mo, but you can also see where im coming from from the point of people attacking someone else and not doing anything themselves.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

from what youve said about your situation, i can see why you wouldnt be doing anything at the mo, but you can also see where im coming from from the point of people attacking someone else and not doing anything themselves.

I couldn't agree more with you I just think that Respect / SWP and their attitudes to locals and their lack of interest in their concerns are very much part of the problem in countering facisim. If Respect is going to be any sort of positive power it needs to:

Dump Galloway very publicly
Start putting local activists into action on a long term basis
Don't freak and call people nazi's when people express racist views but walk the talk and challenge them with actions not screaming in peoples faces.
Respect needs also to divorce themselves from MAB and start building links with all faiths and none. Stop talking all the time about Islamophobia (which drives a lot of white working class voters away from Respect) and start getting involved in genuine established interfaith groups.
Shut up the mouthy student-y contingent who are a liability when
you have delicate political and social sensibilities to deal with.
Do little stuff for people such as writing letters on behalf of people who have had problems with housing, repairs etc etc. This is how the bnp did so well, they represented people even though they were not elected at that point and built up a support base.

Oh and dump Galloway

 

[audiotech]

The swappie front UAF set up a stall in Dagenham Heathway with the usual Asylum seekers welcome here posters 'don't vote nazi' literature etc. In an area that is undergoing profound demographic change which is being exploited by the bnp this was not a sensible thing to do. It just winds up the locals and feeds the bnp. If people see that the left is not going to help them make sense of the utter cock up that has been made of public housing by Tories and New Labour then they will unfortunately turn to the right.

Also the entire make up from what I've observed in b and d is that there is a division between those who are ambivalent to facisim, those who actively support the bnp who are locals and those who parachute in from outside or are students who make up the majority of anti bnp organisations.

It really appears to have become a situation where the locals either support the bnp or couldn't give a toss and the only opposition to them is from outsiders who don't understand the complex history of the area.

The bnp unfortunately have done the right thing politically which is to go in for the long game. They had people in the local boozers chatting and making friends. You can do far more like that than screaming 'nazi' in peoples faces.

I don't like it but it is happening.

Read the above and I concur with some of what you've said, but time to move on and focus on Attica's main points.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

OK show me where Respect did well outside Muslim areas. Respect are a divisive racist party.

Apparently Respect stood in a completely white area of Barnsley in a council by-election yesterday and got 5.5% against the BNP's 18.6%. There was no Tory candidate, though there was an independent group that did well. Labour held the seat.

There were just 13 muslims in the ward in the 2001 census.

I haven't had this result independently confirmed, but, if true, it's evidence that Respect are capable of campaigning in white working class areas and not doing too badly on a first outing, at least by comparison with the other left groups.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Apparently Respect stood in a completely white area of Barnsley in a council by-election yesterday and got 5.5% against the BNP's 18.6%. There was no Tory candidate, though there was an independent group that did well. Labour held the seat.

There were just 13 muslims in the ward in the 2001 census.

I haven't had this result independently confirmed, but, if true, it's evidence that Respect are capable of campaigning in white working class areas and not doing too badly on a first outing, at least by comparison with the other left groups.

If that is true then I salute that. I think that a well organised left party has a place in changing things for the better. Especiallyin Barnsley. More worrying though is 18.6 for the bnp but as you say about first outing and my point that the bnp is very good at doing the community politics bit.

I don't always agree with you FG but in this case I 'm going to reserve doubt on this one but the 18.6 for the bnp who are probablypicking up votes on the 'did you know that the closed college is going to be turned into a holding centre for paedophiles and the council will force your daughter to learn about ramadan' type of thick wanker as well as hard core racists and those making a protest against the council.

Thats how it seemed to work in B and D.

BTW I once had the sad occasin to meet the election agent / canidates assistant type chappie for the B and D UKIP candidate he was one of those who was so proud of his ignorance and bigotry
and he didn't even LIVE in the UK he lived in fucking south africa.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

If that is true then I salute that. I think that a well organised left party has a place in changing things for the better. Especiallyin Barnsley. More worrying though is 18.6 for the bnp but as you say about first outing and my point that the bnp is very good at doing the community politics bit.

I don't always agree with you FG but in this case I 'm going to reserve doubt on this one but the 18.6 for the bnp who are probablypicking up votes on the 'did you know that the closed college is going to be turned into a holding centre for paedophiles and the council will force your daughter to learn about ramadan' type of thick wanker as well as hard core racists and those making a protest against the council.

Thats how it seemed to work in B and D.

BTW I once had the sad occasin to meet the election agent / canidates assistant type chappie for the B and D UKIP candidate he was one of those who was so proud of his ignorance and bigotry
and he didn't even LIVE in the UK he lived in fucking south africa.

It appears to be true according to the Association of LibDem Councillors by-election website:
http://www.gwydir.demon.co.uk/byelections/le061116.htm
Although I am slightly sceptical as some of the information here is completely wrong!

Barnsley MBC, Worsborough
Lab 615 (37.0;-4.7), Ind 510 (30.7;+9.5), BNP 310 (18.6;+18.6), Lib Dem 137 (8.2;-14.2), Respect 91 (5.5;+5.5)
Majority 105. Turnout 22%. Lab hold. Last Fought 2004.

Candidates are on the Council website:

Worsbrough ward by-election candidates announced

BARNSLEY Council has announced the names of the candidates who will stand at the forthcoming Worsbrough by-election. This was brought about by the death last month of the council’s Deputy Leader Cllr Jimmy Rae, who held the seat since 1998.

The candidates are

Jillian Aranyi Barnsley Independent Group
Betty Barlow Labour Party
Kate Burland Respect
Malcolm Jennings British National Party
Donald Wood Liberal Democrats

Voting will take place on Thursday, 16 November between 7am and 10pm.
http://www.barnsley.gov.uk/bguk/Cou...ugh ward by-election candidates announced.htm

The reason the LibDems are wrong are because the ward was last fought in May 2006 when the result was:

Worsbrough Ward
Aranyi, Jillian Barnsley Independent Group 566 23.2%
Durie, Patricia Jane Liberal Democrat 370 15.2%
Elders, Elizabeth Allan Conservative 139 5.7%
Jennings, Malcolm British National Party 395 16.2%
Taylor, Eunice Labour 965 39.6%

http://www.barnsley.gov.uk/bguk/Cou...ction_Results/2006 Local Election Results.htm

91 votes for Respect may not seem much but it was over 5% in a by-election with a very low turnout. My guess is that the BNP vote will have been boosted by the lack of a Tory (or UKIP etc) candidate so any rightwing votes will have most likely gone for them.

An interesting fact about this ward is that it was contested by no less than Arthur Scargill himself back in 1998 when he had just launched the Socialist Labour Party. Given that the NUM HQ was in Barnsley (and I think Arthur lived there too) and he only managed 331 votes, getting 91 in a low key by-election is pretty good.

Worsbrough By-Election 5 March 1998
Party Candidate Votes % ±%
Labour J Rae 1,398 71.4 -17.0
Socialist Labour Arthur Scargill 331 16.9 +16.9
Liberal Democrats I Guest 151 7.7 +7.7
Conservative E Elders 79 4.0 +4.0
Majority 1,067 54.5
Turnout 1,959 25.5
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnsley_local_elections#By-election_results

The demographics make Worsbrough ward very white, very working class:

All People (Persons)
Count 9,520
White: British (Persons, Count, Apr01) Count 9,372
White: British (Persons, Percentage, Apr01) % 98.45
...
Asian or Asian British: Indian (Persons) Count 11
Asian or Asian British: Indian (Persons, Percentage, Apr01) % 0.12
Asian or Asian British: Pakistani (Persons) Count 3
Asian or Asian British: Pakistani (Persons, Percentage, Apr01) % 0.03
Asian or Asian British: Bangladeshi (Persons, Count, Apr01) Count 0
Asian or Asian British: Bangladeshi (Persons, Percentage, Apr01) % 0.00
...
http://www.neighbourhood.statistics...2751&i=1001x1003x1004&m=0&enc=1&dsFamilyId=47


National Statistics Socio-economic Classification (UV31)
Worsbrough
Ward
All People 6802
1. Higher managerial and professional occupations 219 3.2%
2. Lower managerial and professional occupations 762 11.2%
3. Intermediate occupations 456 6.7%
4. Small employers and own account workers 410 6.0%
5. Lower supervisory and technical occupations 556 8.2%
6. Semi-routine occupations 870 12.8%
7. Routine occupations 1022 15.0%
8. Never worked and long-term unemployed 350 5.1%
Not Classified 2157 31.7%
Not Classified: L15 Full-time students 285 4.2%
Not Classified: L17 Not classifiable for other reasons 1872 27.5%

http://www.neighbourhood.statistics...751&i=1001x1003x1004&m=0&enc=1&dsFamilyId=113

The thing that's surprising is that no-one else has noticed - even Respect!

 

[JHE]

Thanks for the info on the Worsbrough by-election, Fisher_Gate.

The thing that's surprising is that no-one else has noticed - even Respect!

It's a bit early to say whether Respec' wants to publicise the by-election or not. They may yet bung it on their website.

But I can see a couple of reasons why they might not be keen to crow about it.

1. It's not nice for the Respekites to be trounced by all the other parties, including the BNP.

2. In the absence of many Mohammedans, Respec' will have presented itself as a left-wing group, but has done much less well than the Scargill Labour Party did in 98.


You're cheerful about it. A deposit saved! Don't you think you're being just bit Pollyanna-ish?

 

[JimPage]

utter nonsense -the figures as stated to electoral authority showed a 200 odd increase over that period.

two important things- this was for the period june 2004 to june 2005 - due to the odd reporting times and late bnp submission of reports. also its to con the opposition into believing they are in decline so they can be even more ineffective than they are at present...

the true level of growth can be seen by the growth of their branch and group organisation as noted in their paper "freedom" - which has shown a huge level of growth- especially since may 2006- and god knows what its like now after the griffin trial- to be specific 13 new groups formed over last 2 months

and 3,000 people at their red-white-blue piss up this year as well

denial of the factual existance of BNPs growth is an increasing tactic by the increasingly clueless SWP

meanwhile, in the real world BNP polled 18.6% last thursday in Barnsley. They may well win in Walsall next week. Forthoming elections in Horsham, Southend, Newcastle and Scarborough.

 

[JimPage]

I haven't had this result independently confirmed, but, if true, it's evidence that Respect are capable of campaigning in white working class areas and not doing too badly on a first outing, at least by comparison with the other left groups.

yes- they are capable- but in far too many contests they simply dont bother to stand- why no canddiate in a fortnight in newcastle for example?

 

[Larry O'Hara]

I couldn't agree more with you I just think that Respect / SWP and their attitudes to locals and their lack of interest in their concerns are very much part of the problem in countering facisim. If Respect is going to be any sort of positive power it needs to:

Dump Galloway very publicly
Start putting local activists into action on a long term basis
Don't freak and call people nazi's when people express racist views but walk the talk and challenge them with actions not screaming in peoples faces.
Respect needs also to divorce themselves from MAB and start building links with all faiths and none. Stop talking all the time about Islamophobia (which drives a lot of white working class voters away from Respect) and start getting involved in genuine established interfaith groups.
Shut up the mouthy student-y contingent who are a liability when
you have delicate political and social sensibilities to deal with.
Do little stuff for people such as writing letters on behalf of people who have had problems with housing, repairs etc etc. This is how the bnp did so well, they represented people even though they were not elected at that point and built up a support base.

Oh and dump Galloway

Some useful ideas here--which is why the SWP/Respect won't do anything like it. Too celebrity-obsessed for a start.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

Thanks for the info on the Worsbrough by-election, Fisher_Gate.


It's a bit early to say whether Respec' wants to publicise the by-election or not. They may yet bung it on their website.

But I can see a couple of reasons why they might not be keen to crow about it.

1. It's not nice for the Respekites to be trounced by all the other parties, including the BNP.

2. In the absence of many Mohammedans, Respec' will have presented itself as a left-wing group, but has done much less well than the Scargill Labour Party did in 98.


You're cheerful about it. A deposit saved! Don't you think you're being just bit Pollyanna-ish?

There are no deposits in local government elections.

And Scargill wasn't just fighting any old ward in 1998 - he was born in Worsbrough and fought a local election there in 1950, at the age of 22 as a Communist Party candidate. He lived nearby and relocated the national NUM headquarters to Barnsley. Yet he could only get 16%, so Respect hasn't done too badly by winning one third of his vote. I'm not being cheerful - it's just a straw in the wind.

 

[treelover]

Is that correct? thats a lot of people

Are people on here going to protest(and in some cases more) when the BNP have their er, national conference. Because in my view, they will love that: hundreds of shouty demonstrators, some frothing at the mouth while they have
what would be (in their eyes and much of the public), a legitimate political conference.

and 3,000 people at their red-white-blue piss up this year as well

 

[mk12]

What would the protest be about? "We don't like the BNP!" Well, nor do a lot of people.

"Arrest the BNP!" like Martin Smith argued?

 

[fanciful]

What would the protest be about? The BNP.

 

[mk12]

A protest to stop their conference going ahead?

 

[Mr T]

Presumably a protest against the venue agreeing to host it, and to show how unwelcome the BNP are in the eyes of many people in Blackpool. The protest has been initiated AFAIK by the local FE student union and local TUs and supported by UAF nationally. I think they're expecting people from across the north west to attend.

 

[treelover]

yes, thousands of screaming students who a few years later will be moaning about their affluent area is going downhill since those new immigrants came in When such people are also on the streets about council housing, welfare, poverty, etc, I may take them seriously. Then again, I shouldn't be too hard on them, after all, to the SWP/UAF, etc they are only 'footsoldiers' as SWP
head honcho Chris Harman once said.

 

[JimPage]

Is that correct? thats a lot of people

Are people on here going to protest(and in some cases more) when the BNP have their er, national conference. Because in my view, they will love that: hundreds of shouty demonstrators, some frothing at the mouth while they have
what would be (in their eyes and much of the public), a legitimate political conference.

even searchlight granted 2,000 in attendance- and this was for a pay to get in all weekend event not a freebie event where you would expect a bigger turnout

 

[The Black Hand]

even searchlight granted 2,000 in attendance- and this was for a pay to get in all weekend event not a freebie event where you would expect a bigger turnout

Sorry, not impressed. Having seen the calibre of those in the north east i think its a case of 'nowhere else to go' rather than those at the cutting edge of 'dynamic and exciting politics with a future'.