BNP is splitting....!

[nino_savatte]

Even Libya refers to itself as "socialist" but I'd be hard pressed to find anything socialist about that state.

 

[Mallard]

No. There are lots of countries that have stuck socialist in their official names, like Egypt for eg, that I wouldn't include.

I was thinking only of the USSR, the post-WW2 E Europe Sov bloc, Cuba, China, V Nam

Oh, of course, there could be many books written about it

Fair enough. It'd be a good thread. Hope I haven't de-railed this one!

 

[glenquagmire]

Even Libya refers to itself as "socialist" but I'd be hard pressed to find anything socialist about that state.

A friend of mine's mum worked for many years at the Morning Star and spent time in Libya as a reporter. She was very impressed at the number of women in senior positions around Gadaffi but I think may have misunderstood the reason for them being there...

 

[nino_savatte]

A friend of mine's mum worked for many years at the Morning Star and spent time in Libya as a reporter. She was very impressed at the number of women in senior positions around Gadaffi but I think may have misunderstood the reason for them being there...

I've noticed that Ghadafi has a crack team of women bodyguards, but I suspect that this has more to do with his desire to be surrounded by women than anything feminist on his part. Maybe I'm wrong.

I see Sokrazy's been schmoozing him in Paris.
http://www.iht.com/articles/reuters/2007/12/13/europe/OUKWD-UK-FRANCE-LIBYA.php

 

[glenquagmire]

Yes, that sort of was what I was trying to get at.

 

[Crispy]

Win

 

[mauvais]

I'd like a house, please

No household, NO WISHES

 

[likesfish]

I suppose special branch does have to take an interest in groups calling for armed revolution. be sort of embarrassing come the revolution if they knew nothing about it

 

[imposs1904]

If Special Branch have infiltrated any of the League for a 5th International lot or either of the SPGBs then I think there ought to be some enquiry into the use of taxpayers' money.

No point in infiltrating the SPGB - apart from the obvious - as their public and business meetings have always been open to non-members, and they've never subscribed to the minority inaction politics of smashing the state/seizing the state/telling the state to fuck off and come back next Tuesday (take your pick).

However, their companion party in the States, the WSPUS, was infiltrated in the late sixties/early seventies by an FBI operative/informant. But I guess the FBI were here, there and everywhere in those days.

cheers,
Darren
Inveresk Street Ingrate

 

[greenman]

Cruddas calls for police intervention in BNP dispute! -
http://jimjay.blogspot.com/2007/12/update-police-called-in-to-bnp-dispute.html
Curiouser and curiouser.......

Labour MP Jon Cruddas will today call on the police to investigate possible illegal acts by the British National Party leadership. It appears that leading officers in the BNP have been secretly recording phone conversations of some of its officials and monitoring their emails. On Saturday 8 December members of the BNP security team also gained access to the house of Sadie Graham, one of Nick Griffin’s critics, and removed personal belongings, including a computer. Sadie Graham is a borough councillor in Broxtowe and much of her council work was on the computer. The BNP leadership have subsequently gone through the computer reading emails and documents, including emails that has arrived since the computer was stolen.

BNP leader Nick Griffin has even boasted about reading these emails on the party website.

Cruddas’ call comes as the crisis that is tearing the BNP apart grows. On Sunday the BNP sacked two of its leading officers “on the grounds of gross misconduct.” Sadie Graham, the party’s group development officer, and Kenny Smith, the party’s head of administration, were sacked after they had begun to openly criticise the performance and behaviour of three other full-time party workers. Despite allegations of financial mismanagement, including £17,000 which appears to have gone missing from the BNP 2006 accounts (which have yet to be submitted to the Electoral Commission), Nick Griffin refused to investigate.

Instead, he set his ‘Intelligence Department’, run by former South African police officers, to look for evidence against his critics.

If Griffin thought that the sacking of Graham and Smith would end the rebellion he was deeply mistaken. Over 30 branch organisers, regional organisers and party officials have publicly backed the duo. Five BNP councillors have joined the rebellion.

“The BNP leadership is showing us its true colours,” says Jon Cruddas. “They appear to be monitoring phonecalls and emails of their members and removing computers from private households. This is not the behaviour of a normal political party and I would like to see the police investigate this.”

Cruddas is particularly concerned with the allegation that a computer with private council business and personal correspondence from voters is being scrutinised by the BNP leadership. “This is totally deplorable and must be stopped immediately. These fascistic bullyboy tactics should have no place in our political system.”

Jim Jay cites Searchlight as source - so, salt, pinch - but still!

 

[Confucius]

Cruddas calls for police intervention in BNP dispute! -
http://jimjay.blogspot.com/2007/12/update-police-called-in-to-bnp-dispute.html
Curiouser and curiouser.......



Jim Jay cites Searchlight as source - so, salt, pinch - but still!

There are even allegations of under age sex against Collett and Hannam from Matt Single, councillor Sadie Graham's partner:

At last years conference in Blackpool, I witnessed Collett and Hannam attempt to have sexual relations with two girls that were obviously under the age of sexual consent. These vile acts and others are not only illegal, they fall completely outside of the very ethos of nationalism that is supposed to represent family values and morality. This has all taken place directly under Nick Griffins nose, yet he time and time again has out rightly refused to even acknowledge the true character of Collettt and has absolutely refused to remove him from his position within the Party he is destroying from the inside out. The time has now come for Nick to be forced by the people of this Party to finally cut out this cancer within it if it is to survive.​

http://www.voiceofreason.org.uk/blog/

These should be investigated too, and questions asked of the people who have covered this up.

 

[Gumbert]

and the thread turns out to be an exercise in abstract thought....

yawns...

although it does seem that more interesting shit is happening..


http://www.stopthebnp.org.uk/index.php?location=BNP_crisis_single&art=24

 

[Gmart]

So more marginalisation based on stupidity and knee jerk authoritarianism. How familiar!

 

[Steve Booth]

Can we have more on the detail please?

Power struggles are not unusual in the far right circles, wasn't one of the downfalls to the nazis (apart from a military defeat to end ww2) due to conflicting ideas at the top?

Are any of the people involved in this alleged split important enough to derail the BNP in its election processes? Is this just a sideshow?

It seems to me that the BNP success in various elections is something quite different from an internal party argument like this.

It might make a difference or it might not, depending on their role. Just because there is some disagreement doesn't seem to affect people in the wards where BNP candidates collect votes. There is an analogous effect with the Labour Party. Come the General Election, would the recent allegations about funding be enough to unseat MPs in safe seats?

The BNP already have a bad public image. Episodes of bad publicity aren't enough.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

It means, young man, that extremism, of any kind, will always lead to separatism. Is my opinion, anyway.

oh my fucking god someone give me more mdeication i agree with L&L....

 

[Confucius]

Are any of the people involved in this alleged split important enough to derail the BNP in its election processes? Is this just a sideshow?

It seems to me that the BNP success in various elections is something quite different from an internal party argument like this.

It might make a difference or it might not, depending on their role. Just because there is some disagreement doesn't seem to affect people in the wards where BNP candidates collect votes. There is an analogous effect with the Labour Party. Come the General Election, would the recent allegations about funding be enough to unseat MPs in safe seats?

The BNP already have a bad public image. Episodes of bad publicity aren't enough.

With at least 50 senior BNP members resigned including 5 councillors resigning the party whip. This amounts to virtually every organiser in Yorkshire and Scotland and a large chunk of the East Midlands signed up to the rebellion. By any estimations this is serious, the party is deeply divided. The only explanation for the situation is utter stupidity on behalf of Nick Griffin and/or Mark Collett has something incriminating on Nick Griffin. Indeed several witnesses say that Mark Collett has said that he will turn Queen's evidence on Nick if he doesn't get his way. Ian Dawson, Head of BNP Group Support is quoted as commenting on this “Does this not spell out where his loyalties lie?” (Ref)

 

[JimPage]

http://www. bnp.org.uk/?p=215

"Firstly, two posts have been abolished immediately: Group Development and Head of Publicity. A third post - that of Regional Treasurer - is being phased out as soon as possible in accordance with the previously announced policy of regionalising the local accounting procedures."

In plain english, Collets job has just been abolished by Griffin- although he remians as a greaphic designer. Hannams job phased out asap. There count as clear demotions of these two- which seem to be the core issue here

Sadie Grahams old job has also been abolished.

Griffins awaited peace offering / sacficial offerring seems to has been made by this- and have funny feeling that peace may break out.

By elections in Shepshed and Benfleet next week......

 

[JimPage]

Although there was a unity meeting of sorts last saturday- which looked like creating detante if not peace- looks like anything agreed there has been overruled as soon as he got of the room by Griffin. As far as i can see this puts the BNP back at least 15 years. A handful of fash will struggle on - but if they even manage to get on the ballot paper at the GLA Election now I would be surprised. Expect no more that 100 candidates in May

 

[bluestreak]

Life is good sometimes.

 

[JimPage]

It might make a difference or it might not, depending on their role. Just because there is some disagreement doesn't seem to affect people in the wards where BNP candidates collect votes. There is an analogous effect with the Labour Party. Come the General Election, would the recent allegations about funding be enough to unseat MPs in safe seats?
.

It will decimate them- as we now have the weapon that the BNP have split into pro and anti paedophile factions. I think they are now in for a rapid decline in votes- if any of their candidates in the two by electiosn they are fighting on thursday exceed 10% of the vote i woudl be surprised

Coem the general election- I doubt the BNP will exist at all

 

[beard]

Don't you find it depressing you have to rely on the BNP fucking it up themselves , rather than being destroyed by a political alternative??
No matter what, the conditions and the reasons why more people vote for them will still be there.

 

[durruti02]

Although there was a unity meeting of sorts last saturday- which looked like creating detante if not peace- looks like anything agreed there has been overruled as soon as he got of the room by Griffin. As far as i can see this puts the BNP back at least 15 years. A handful of fash will struggle on - but if they even manage to get on the ballot paper at the GLA Election now I would be surprised. Expect no more that 100 candidates in May

hi jim

have you got any info on whether cyclops has people waiting in the wings to fill these regional positions .. seems crazy for him to allow a breakup on the verge of a potential break thru ..

or was it the failure to do more this year that has caused him to do this .. is it a coup?

in fact do we know what is the issues? is there something political behind the personality stuff?

 

[durruti02]

Don't you find it depressing you have to rely on the BNP fucking it up themselves , rather than being destroyed by a political alternative??
No matter what, the conditions and the reasons why more people vote for them will still be there.

quite ..

 

[JimPage]

Don't you find it depressing you have to rely on the BNP fucking it up themselves , rather than being destroyed by a political alternative??
No matter what, the conditions and the reasons why more people vote for them will still be there.

i think the state had a very big hand in this so iT was far from "by themselves"- and in some ways very likE what happenned up here with the SSP.

Yes the conditions will still be there for them- but there will be no fascist canddiates to vote for

 

[bluestreak]

Somewhat yes, but it's swings and roundabouts. The BNP have been capitalising on our current social problems in ways that the left are unable to because they offer simplistic solutions that the left cannot because a socialist alternative requires a complex reordering of the social structure that simply kicking out the niggers, pakis, and polacks cannot. Society is more skewed against leftist organisations, because many fear that under a socialist government they'll lose power and wealth. So we need to work harder to show where the gains are. The BNP are no threat to capital, so the only bad press they generate is through simply being scum.

 

[JimPage]

hi jim

have you got any info on whether cyclops has people waiting in the wings to fill these regional positions .. seems crazy for him to allow a breakup on the verge of a potential break thru ..

or was it the failure to do more this year that has caused him to do this .. is it a coup?

in fact do we know what is the issues? is there something political behind the personality stuff?

1. Yes- there are some people coming forward- Gary Raikes is new Scottish Regional organiser- and possibly Chris Jackson for NW England (surprising but apparently true)

2. There is no politics in the split that i can discern- it is all about personality

 

[durruti02]

2. There is no politics in the split that i can discern- it is all about personality

brilliant! .. and i also suspect MIwhatever will have had a say .. which also contradicts bluestreak .. the state like fascists but only in small quantities

 

[JimPage]

brilliant! .. and i also suspect MIwhatever will have had a say .. which also contradicts bluestreak .. the state like fascists but only in small quantities

yep- it was becmoing clear that they could well get on to the GLA next year- so a good opportunity to relases all of the spooks (on both sides) at once- and then , a week later, end of BNP

 

[durruti02]

Somewhat yes, but it's swings and roundabouts. The BNP have been capitalising on our current social problems in ways that the left are unable to because they offer simplistic solutions that the left cannot because a socialist alternative requires a complex reordering of the social structure that simply kicking out the niggers, pakis, and polacks cannot. Society is more skewed against leftist organisations, because many fear that under a socialist government they'll lose power and wealth. So we need to work harder to show where the gains are. The BNP are no threat to capital, so the only bad press they generate is through simply being scum.

maybe not a discussion for this thread mate but i disagree with the idea that socialism/communism IS essentially overcomplex and not simple and appealling .. imho it is the mystifications of the leninist left that have made it overcomplex unappealling ..

 

[bluestreak]

Some have, I don't doubt. But I think the real reason is that the BNP (and indeed mainstream parties) offer appealing easy answers. They throw money at problems, blame dole dossers or foreigners, announce meaningless projects, do anything rather than address the real problems, which are complex and cannot be expressed in tabloid style headlines - and indeed, lay some of the blame on our own consumer culture.