BNP humiliated in Leeds!!!

[Harold Hill]

There is no evidence that it did, or did not. However, the BNP did receive some negative publicity in the local press that week, which probaby had some an impact on some Leeds residents who were contemplating voting BNP? It wont have helped. I don't know to be honest and neither do you.

However, it appears from research evidence that the majority who do vote BNP are doing so to give the established politicians a "kick up the arse". Pretty weak support for them really.

The BNP have received negative publicity from the whole national press for God knows how long and it was heightended before this election - why are people still thinking bad headlines make the slightest bit of difference.

respect have councillors and an MP off the back of the Iraq war - you'd agree there was pretty weak support for them to in that case. They've been around in barking for over 20 years - they're not going anywhere quickly.

 

[tollbar]

FFS. Griffin and the BNP have made it perfectly clear that they see this as a thirty year strategy. If you look at their achievements since 2002 it would seem to me that they are pretty much on target so far. Hundreds of thousands of votes, fifty odd council seats, the high possibility of euro seats in 2009, shifting most of the political spectrun to the right. WTF do they need street cadres for ?.

 

[audiotech]

The BNP have received negative publicity from the whole national press for God knows how long and it was heightended before this election - why are people still thinking bad headlines make the slightest bit of difference.

When you have had at least two former members of the BNP, one who was even a councillor, not realising what their politics are in reality, then you're right those sort of headlines obviously make no difference to some supporters.

However, it's still important to expose their fascist roots.

respect have councillors and an MP off the back of the Iraq war - you'd agree there was pretty weak support for them to in that case. They've been around in barking for over 20 years - they're not going anywhere quickly.

Not quickly no. I don't understand the first part.

 

[audiotech]

Fat lot of good it did.

It brought new people into activity against fascism.

 

[Harold Hill]

When you have had at least two former members of the BNP, one who was even a councillor, not realising what their politics are in reality, then you're right those sort of headlines obviously make no difference to some supporters.

However, it's still important to expose their fascist roots.



Not quickly no. I don't understand the first part.

You said

'However, it appears from research evidence that the majority who do vote BNP are doing so to give the established politicians a "kick up the arse". Pretty weak support for them really'.

If you really believe that then you must also believe most Respect have the same weak support yes?

 

[levien]

You said

'However, it appears from research evidence that the majority who do vote BNP are doing so to give the established politicians a "kick up the arse". Pretty weak support for them really'.

If you really believe that then you must also believe most Respect have the same weak support yes?

No one has argued that Respect has strong roots in the working class. People have argued that it has the potential to build on its narrow base by exploiting anger over the war and mobalising it to deal with issues main stream social democracy has abandoned. W/C issues like health, education, housing etc.

Durruti: You really should change your posting name if your going to spout this sub Labourite bollocks. No one is dismissing the worrying numbers voting Nazi whether they are "weekend racists" or committed fash is a seperate issue. The point is on the level of street organisation the last 15 years have seen the BNP stagnate, shown by their failure to mobalise (and they did try) for the court case in Leeds. Organisationally the BNP is a weak and divided. Leeds exposed that and contrasted the mobalising ability of the anti-fascists.

 

[durruti02]

It brought new people into activity against fascism.

for what end?????? .. i'll say yet again while you were building this demo the bnp were actually talking to ordinary people and as a consequence in west yorks ended up with c100,000 votes you r few converts to anti facism are meaningless in relation

the whole anl uaf strategy is bollox .. you do stunts and patronise people ..

but facism can be defeated though .. by attacking the state /the labour party who are genuimely fking with peoples lives etc etc and helping people take power where they live ..

anti facist stunts just increase the alienation and feelings of disempowerment people have that leads them to move to facism ..

 

[durruti02]

No one has argued that Respect has strong roots in the working class. People have argued that it has the potential to build on its narrow base by exploiting anger over the war and mobalising it to deal with issues main stream social democracy has abandoned. W/C issues like health, education, housing etc.

Durruti: You really should change your posting name if your going to spout this sub Labourite bollocks. No one is dismissing the worrying numbers voting Nazi whether they are "weekend racists" or committed fash is a seperate issue. The point is on the level of street organisation the last 15 years have seen the BNP stagnate, shown by their failure to mobalise (and they did try) for the court case in Leeds. Organisationally the BNP is a weak and divided. Leeds exposed that and contrasted the mobalising ability of the anti-fascists.

you clearly know nothing of the bnp recent strategy .. they have deliberately neglected street antics in favour of the doorstep .. with devastating consequnces ..

(the left ignores both the street and the doorstep sticking to its time honoured libraries and student debating chambers !)

however if they wished to mobilise for confronation in west yorks they would hammer anything the left could produce

p.s. sub labourite bollox?? .. wtf???

 

[audiotech]

for what end?????? .. i'll say yet again while you were building this demo the bnp were actually talking to ordinary people and as a consequence in west yorks ended up with c100,000 votes you r few converts to anti facism are meaningless in relation

the whole anl uaf strategy is bollox .. you do stunts and patronise people ..

but facism can be defeated though .. by attacking the state /the labour party who are genuimely fking with peoples lives etc etc and helping people take power where they live ..

anti facist stunts just increase the alienation and feelings of disempowerment people have that leads them to move to facism ..

The quote the words of your namesake,

...it is a matter of crushing Fascism once and for all. Yes; and in spite of the Government.

And here Durruti laughed. "You can never tell, you know, the present Government might yet need these rebellious forces to crush the workers' movement . . ."

http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/scw/durruti.html

 

[levien]

you clearly know nothing of the bnp recent strategy .. they have deliberately neglected street antics in favour of the doorstep .. with devastating consequnces ..

(the left ignores both the street and the doorstep sticking to its time honoured libraries and student debating chambers !)

however if they wished to mobilise for confronation in west yorks they would hammer anything the left could produce

p.s. sub labourite bollox?? .. wtf???

I never said that... Its not me misunderstanding the current tactics its you misunderstanding the dynamics and purpose of fascist organisation. As an anti-fascist we both need to understand the current tactics and the final aim - something you do not do (thus sub-labourite bollocks.) Having spent the best part of 4 months door to door campaigning (which I doubt you have) you can piss right off.

 

[durruti02]

The quote the words of your namesake,



http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/scw/durruti.html

FFS! durruti in 1936 was leading an assault on a facist uprising!!.. but before that he was involved in a war against capitaliam and it's state .. he saw no differrence .. the imperative though in 1936 was to defeat the facist uprising ..

but he did it by creating revolution .. by creating communism .. libertarian communism .. he quite clearly saw that facism can be defeated, where necessary, militaryly but equally the preconditions of it, in the people, need to be destroyed too ..

this is what classic 'anti facism' ignores ( it all of our peril) ..

to ask people to vote labour as part of anti facism is to promote the conditions for facism

to demonise w/c communities and bnp voters is to promote the wider conditions for facism

to demonise facism .. as an aberration ( instead of a phase of capitalism) .. and ignore everything else in the world is to create the conditions for facism in the w/c

and heres the full qoutes ..

"It is possible that only a hundred of us will survive, but with that hundred we shall enter Saragossa, beat Fascism and proclaim libertarian communism. I will be the first to enter. We shall proclaim the free commune. We shall subordinate ourselves neither to Madrid nor Barcelona, neither to Azana nor Companys.... We shall show you Bolsheviks how to make a revolution."

"We want revolution here in Spain, right now, not maybe after the next European war. We are giving Hitler and Mussolini far more worry with our revolution than the whole Red Army of Russia. We are setting an example to the German and Italian working class on how to deal with Fascism."

"We have always lived in slums and holes in the wall. We will know how to accommodate ourselves for a time. For, you must not forget, we can also build. It is we the workers who built these palaces and cities here in Spain and in America and everywhere. We, the workers, can build others to take their place. And better ones! We are not in the least afraid of ruins. We are going to inherit the earth; there is not the slightest doubt about that. The bourgeoisie might blast and ruin its own world before it leaves the stage of history. We carry a new world here, in our hearts. That world is growing this minute."

 

[audiotech]

to ask people to vote labour as part of anti facism is to promote the conditions for facism

That's the strategy of some who wish to restrict the anti-fascist movement to working within the Labour Party and one I do no subscribe to. This, because it is writing off thousands who oppose the BNP, but do not support New Labour.

to demonise w/c communities and bnp voters is to promote the wider conditions for facism

Being working class myself I wouldn't give any credence to an organisation advocating such nonsense. What is required is to form a real working class opposition which requires the active involvement of socialists, trade unionists, students, black and Asian people and Muslims too.

 

[JimPage]

i think this thread seems to miss the minor point that they got elected in the leeds ward of morley south- where they increased their vote from 3.8% in the may 2000 local elections, to 32.9% now

leeds people actually had 6 years notice about the bnp targetting this ward, and did nothing about it- other than crow "victory!"

oh and
22.4% in arlesley
28.5% in middleton park
21.7% in richmond hill
21.3% in morley morth
22% in temple newsam

and these results can be directly laid at the dooe of serchlight/uaf and their allies

 

[netbob]

The result of the BNP's success in Barking seems to have been:

Late Wednesday night (17th May), a 30 year-old Afghan man was stabbed outside Barking tube station by four white men. After shouting “f****ing pakis” and other racial abuse, they stabbed him twice in the chest and stomach, draped him in an England flag, and left him for dead. The man is in serious condition at the Royal London Hospital in Whitechapel.

 

[audiotech]

and these results can be directly laid at the dooe of serchlight/uaf and their allies

Searchlight walked away from UAF some time ago, which is a vivid reminder of anti-fascist disunity which historically has plagued the left.

Rather than blame anti-fascists for the recent successes for the BNP. It should be remembered that the party that has fuelled it's support is the party in government. It's no coincidence that a similar scenario took place as the Callaghan government hobbled on it's last legs in the late 1970's.

 

[_angel_]

i think this thread seems to miss the minor point that they got elected in the leeds ward of morley south- where they increased their vote from 3.8% in the may 2000 local elections, to 32.9% now

leeds people actually had 6 years notice about the bnp targetting this ward, and did nothing about it- other than crow "victory!"

oh and
22.4% in arlesley
28.5% in middleton park
21.7% in richmond hill
21.3% in morley morth
22% in temple newsam

and these results can be directly laid at the dooe of serchlight/uaf and their allies

Some of us did vote against them you know. They came second in my ward though, worrying enough.

 

[durruti02]

i think this thread seems to miss the minor point that they got elected in the leeds ward of morley south- where they increased their vote from 3.8% in the may 2000 local elections, to 32.9% now

leeds people actually had 6 years notice about the bnp targetting this ward, and did nothing about it- other than crow "victory!"

oh and
22.4% in arlesley
28.5% in middleton park
21.7% in richmond hill
21.3% in morley morth
22% in temple newsam

and these results can be directly laid at the dooe of serchlight/uaf and their allies

spot on bruv ..

 

[durruti02]

That's the strategy of some who wish to restrict the anti-fascist movement to working within the Labour Party and one I do no subscribe to. This, because it is writing off thousands who oppose the BNP, but do not support New Labour.

sorry this is nonsense .. all the UAF stuff says vote to keep the bnp out .. vote who???!! it can only be labour .. and it is labour that currently is the problem ..

Being working class myself I wouldn't give any credence to an organisation advocating such nonsense. What is required is to form a real working class opposition which requires the active involvement of socialists, trade unionists, students, black and Asian and Muslims too.

.. you do not need an opposition to the bnp .. you need and opposition to the state/parties that create the conditions that the people bnp thrive in .. and of course that REAL opposition, that movement would take the bnp in its stride .

......

 

[audiotech]

......sorry this is nonsense .. all the UAF stuff says vote to keep the bnp out .. vote who???!! it can only be labour .. and it is labour that currently is the problem ..

I don't agree with everything UAF come out with.

.. you do not need an opposition to the bnp .. you need and opposition to the state/parties that create the conditions that the people bnp thrive in .. and of course that REAL opposition, that movement would take the bnp in its stride .

It is important now more than ever to build an effective anti-fascist opposition to the BNP and a political alternative to the established parties, particularly the Labour party.

An article on the socialist unity website titled where now for anti-fascists? makes for interesting reading and importantly raises some critical questions with regard to UAF and Searchlight tactics.

 

[JimPage]

Searchlight walked away from UAF some time ago, which is a vivid reminder of anti-fascist disunity which historically has plagued the left.

Rather than blame anti-fascists for the recent successes for the BNP. It should be remembered that the party that has fuelled it's support is the party in government. It's no coincidence that a similar scenario took place as the Callaghan government hobbled on it's last legs in the late 1970's.

yes- am aware of the uaf/searchlight split- but both organisations are following tactics which have failed. its simply not impacting the bnp vote fast enough to match their organisational growth of 2 new units a month- and god knows what after this election. i accept that uaf for one seem to be waking up to this based on weyman bennett`s sober and downbeat election analysis.

from where I stand- i see a stage where they are embedding themselves very solidly. anti fascist had a very close shave in may 4th- with 74 second places adn them being 100 votes off winning in 50 more of these.

blame anti- fascists? yes. the sucess of organisations such as AFA in keeping a lid on the BNP in the 80s/90s was they had the correct tactics for the time. its not a question of unite and win and more- it has to be unite around tactics which will be able to beat the BNP again (and No Platform wont this time round)

the solution? working class political organisation backed up by actually standing in elections against them, in the areas they are targetting- which could include Respect

and a final break with searchlight. i dont care how good their intelligence is
the price for working with them must now be too much

take leeds for example. where are the left? if you could pull 1,000 for a demo, why not stand 1 person against them? the bnp are already out with their "thank you for voting bnp" leaflets. so where next?

 

[audiotech]

SECURITY ALERT!

 

[durruti02]

I don't agree with everything UAF come out with.



It is important now more than ever to build an effective anti-fascist opposition to the BNP and a political alternative to the established parties, particularly the Labour party.

An article on the socialist unity website titled where now for anti-fascists? makes for interesting reading and importantly raises some critical questions with regard to UAF and Searchlight tactics.

actually .. apart from the last 2 paragraphs .. ( a vain hope the labour party will change course!) ... it is a very well written interesting article .. i can agree easily with most of it after first reading

 

[durruti02]

yes- am aware of the uaf/searchlight split- but both organisations are following tactics which have failed. its simply not impacting the bnp vote fast enough to match their organisational growth of 2 new units a month- and god knows what after this election. i accept that uaf for one seem to be waking up to this based on weyman bennett`s sober and downbeat election analysis.

from where I stand- i see a stage where they are embedding themselves very solidly. anti fascist had a very close shave in may 4th- with 74 second places adn them being 100 votes off winning in 50 more of these.

blame anti- fascists? yes. the sucess of organisations such as AFA in keeping a lid on the BNP in the 80s/90s was they had the correct tactics for the time. its not a question of unite and win and more- it has to be unite around tactics which will be able to beat the BNP again (and No Platform wont this time round)

the solution? working class political organisation backed up by actually standing in elections against them, in the areas they are targetting- which could include Respect

and a final break with searchlight. i dont care how good their intelligence is
the price for working with them must now be too much

take leeds for example. where are the left? if you could pull 1,000 for a demo, why not stand 1 person against them? the bnp are already out with their "thank you for voting bnp" leaflets. so where next?

spot on mate ...