BNP councillor resigns; 3 way bonus !!

[dennisr]

As to dennisr's comment, its not being idiotic to point out how the traditional left groups have not only been ineffective in fighting back against British Neo fash but how sometimes the actions of these groups have encouraged more support for said fash groups by their patronising attitude to people in areas like Dagenham and Barking.

So where you feckin off to KJ? - I'd put in to a whip round to help you on your way.

A much bigger problem than your fantasy 'left' is the weight of moronic ejets who moan like feck but do nothing. They act out their own feeling of isolation and powerlessness on the rest of us.

Day in and day out I see ejets who want to fight to the death over their place on the bus or their apparently god-given right to behave like a selfish twat while the nhs is dismantalled, schools privatised, job security destroyed, pensions sold to the highest bidder. The same ejets have strong opinions on immigrants and celebrities but no opinion at all on anything they are not told to have an opinion on. I wish they would all fuck off - the petty, pathetic excuses that pass for humanity (and to stop scabbing would be a start KJ)

You see we can all stand around moaning and pointing the finger at others KJ

Idiot

 

[KeyboardJockey]

So where you feckin off to KJ? - I'd put in to a whip round to help you on your way.

(looking at EU for the moment but maybe further afield)

A much bigger problem than your fantasy 'left' is the weight of moronic ejets who moan like feck but do nothing. They act out their own feeling of isolation and powerlessness on the rest of us..

The reason people moan as you would say without doing nothing is that people see any action that they could do having little or no affect. For example taking part in pointless strikes where only the union leadership see any value in the strike itself.

Day in and day out I see ejets who want to fight to the death over their place on the bus or their apparently god-given right to behave like a selfish twat while the nhs is dismantalled, schools privatised, job security destroyed, pensions sold to the highest bidder.

Now that I agree with you on.

The same ejets have strong opinions on immigrants and celebrities but no opinion at all on anything they are not told to have an opinion on. I wish they would all fuck off - the petty, pathetic excuses that pass for humanity (and to stop scabbing would be a start KJ)

There is an immigration problem and it needs to be dealt with as humanely and fairly as we can do. The ruling classes have undercut British workers with cheap labour from abroad then sat back and criticised British workers who are affected for being xenophobic. I'm not going to overly criticise immigrants per se as I'm probably going to be one when I flee from this over taxed under serviced greedy venal selfish violent country. Agree with you about the negative aspects of celebrity worship though.

BTW if you want to encourage solidarity retreating into 19th century language about 'scabbing' isn't the right way to go about it. We have been gifted a society where the self is all and life is becoming in Britain very 'survivalist' and no amount of shouting scab will bring back the solidarity that existed in the past. Solidarity needs to be rebuilt not reviviified.

You see we can all stand around moaning and pointing the finger at others KJ

Those of us who have done our stint at helping others and putting in the time for various causes have earned the right to point the fucking finger.

Idiot

Fool.

 

[poster342002]

(and to stop scabbing would be a start KJ)

Will you be telling the 80% of his workplace who scabbed to stop scabbing, too?

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Will you be telling the 80% of his workplace who scabbed to stop scabbing, too?

Probably not I guess. Like the rest of them.

 

[poster342002]

Probably not I guess. Like the rest of them.

Yes, they mostly just insist "THERE IS NO MAJORITY SCABBING" rather than accept the reality of it and, thus, come up with a strategy to change it. When pressed on this, they start shouting abuse like "moaner", "whinger", "what are you doing about anything?" yadda yadda

 

[LLETSA]

Because it would be indicative of what might come in the future. If they got an MP then I think I would seriously consider leaving the UK (OK OK I know I'd have to turn left at Paris avoiding Le Pen ). If they got an assembly seat despite the mainstream parties setting up a voting system designed in part to keep the fash out then I would start thinking about where I would go and start making preliminary plans to leave the UK.

Why? Even if they controlled the government they would likely be undermined from day one, as well as facing growing popular rebellion from all sides.

There is no chance of that scenario, of course-but even if there was, neither is there any chance that they could carry out most of what they stand for any more than the SWP would be able to if it somehow found itself in power.

 

[poster342002]

Why? Even if they controlled the government they would likely be undermined from day one, as well as facing growing popular rebellion from all sides.

There is no chance of that scenario, of course-but even if there was, neither is there any chance that they could carry out most of what they stand for any more than the SWP would be able to if it somehow found itself in power.

Fair bit of truth in this, so long as the existing establishment was opposed to them. At the moment, the establishment doesn't "need" the fash to crush the working class movement - because to all extents and purposes, there isn't one.

 

[LLETSA]

Fair bit of truth in this, so long as the existing establishment was opposed to them. At the moment, the establishment doesn't "need" the fash to crush the working class movement - because to all extents and purposes, there isn't one.

In the medium term, and even in the event of a recession, there is no possibility that 'the working class movement' could pose as much of a threat to the establishment as it did even in a country as stable as Britain little more than a generation ago, and the establishment was able to crush that without even remotely having to call on the fascists.

The nature of the threat represented by the BNP is that it could replace the labour movement in many of its former strongholds, thus leading large numbers of working class people down the blind alley of racial seperatism and fantasy politics.

 

[The Black Hand]

In the medium term, and even in the event of a recession, there is no possibility that 'the working class movement' could pose as much of a threat to the establishment as it did even in a country as stable as Britain little more than a generation ago, and the establishment was able to crush that without even remotely having to call on the fascists.

The nature of the threat represented by the BNP is that it could replace the labour movement in many of its former strongholds, thus leading large numbers of working class people down the blind alley of racial seperatism and fantasy politics.

This is simplistic tosh you know Letty. The BNP are so very very far from replacing the Labour movement it is funny that you could even say so. BUT to make it easier for us to understand each other I am proposing a scale of 1000 steps that the BNP would have to climb before it replaces the labour movement, I am further going to say that they are on step 1 out of 1000 -which is 0.1 of 1%. Please could you indicate which step you think they are on? Ta.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

The BNP are so very very far from replacing the Labour movement .

<pisses myself laughing>

Not from what I've seen. There is so much anger at the way the mainstream politicos have fucked things up for the white working classes and the working classes as a whole to be honest plus constant reports of how the governing classes are lining their own pockets and dismissing working class views as reactionary and irrelevant etc that where I grew up and lived in my early life you would ahve more success with a bnp campagin than a trade union one.

The unions are dead, get over it. The thing that scares me is looking at what is replacing them.

 

[The Black Hand]

<pisses myself laughing>

Not from what I've seen. There is so much anger at the way the mainstream politicos have fucked things up for the white working classes and the working classes as a whole to be honest plus constant reports of how the governing classes are lining their own pockets and dismissing working class views as reactionary and irrelevant etc that where I grew up and lived in my early life you would ahve more success with a bnp campagin than a trade union one.

The unions are dead, get over it. The thing that scares me is looking at what is replacing them.

ROFL. I think you are writing off 6 million members of unions too easily, infact in an arrogant and hierarchical way. The BNP have no organisation with 6 million subscribers, their party is pathetically small. It is you who are bigging them up for whatever reason even though they have achieved nothing.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

ROFL. I think you are writing off 6 million members of unions too easily, infact in an arrogant and hierarchical way. The BNP have no organisation with 6 million subscribers, their party is pathetically small. It is you who are bigging them up for whatever reason even though they have achieved nothing.

So what have these (mostly inactive IME ) union members achieved then? Fuck all basically.

The bnp aint yet a mass membership org but they are gaining far more attitudinal support than the unions.

 

[glenquagmire]

The BNP have far more "attitudinal" support (i.e. well over 6m people) than trade unions do?

 

[LLETSA]

This is simplistic tosh you know Letty. The BNP are so very very far from replacing the Labour movement it is funny that you could even say so. BUT to make it easier for us to understand each other I am proposing a scale of 1000 steps that the BNP would have to climb before it replaces the labour movement, I am further going to say that they are on step 1 out of 1000 -which is 0.1 of 1%. Please could you indicate which step you think they are on? Ta.

I never said they were close to replacing the old labour movement in all its functions. I said it was the nature of the threat they represent as their 20% and above share of the vote in local elections holds up, what remains of the labour movement continues to stagnate and the old radical left dies out.

 

[poster342002]

ROFL. I think you are writing off 6 million members of unions too easily,

A significant number of which I'll wager are "paper members" only - inactive sub-payers who take no role or active part in the union (and are unlikely ever to) and who retain membership merely as a form of "insurance" and - in my experience - will merrily prance into work as usual on strike days, as they see it as "the unions officials' job" to protect their pay, conditions etc. They're missing the whole point, big-time, but that doesn't stop the situation from existing.

And yes, the sad fact is there are probably more people with "BNP attitudes" than there are with "TU attitides".

 

[poster342002]

The nature of the threat represented by the BNP is that it could replace the labour movement in many of its former strongholds,

I think that will only be the case until their traditional support-base - the disaffected middleclasses - go bananas when the recession bites hard.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

A significant number of which I'll wager are "paper members" only - inactive sub-payers who take no role or active part in the union (and are unlikely ever to) and who retain membership merely as a form of "insurance" and - in my experience - will merrily prance into work as usual on strike days, as they see it as "the unions officials' job" to protect their pay, conditions etc. They're missing the whole point, big-time, but that doesn't stop the situation from existing.

Agree there.

I must admit I've mutated into a paper member. Mostly becuase the only time we get communications from the union are seeing that scumbag Serwotka's grinning fizzhog in the union mag or dry as dust communnications from the branch.

Mind you I do agree with some of the comments earlier about getting more people involved in strikes by adding a social and entertainment element.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

I think that will only be the case until their traditional support-base - the disaffected middleclasses - go bananas when the recession bites hard.

All these tossers who sit there and thing 'the recession will see a resergence of the left as the scales fall from the eyes of the working classes' are talking total shite.

The benificiaries of the recession will be the fash. The maliase affecting mainstream politios is affecting Tories as well. The fash will pick up votes from those who are disaffected of all classes.

 

[dennisr]

All these tossers who sit there and thing 'the recession will see a resergence of the left as the scales fall from the eyes of the working classes' are talking total shite.

The benificiaries of the recession will be the fash. The maliase affecting mainstream politios is affecting Tories as well. The fash will pick up votes from those who are disaffected of all classes.

ill put twenty quid in for the moving fund. when you going?

 

[KeyboardJockey]

ill put twenty quid in for the moving fund. when you going?

As soon as possible.

 

[dennisr]

As soon as possible.

*waves hankerchief*
*shouts "tarra, don't forget to write"*
*thinks: 'then again...*

 

[LLETSA]

I think that will only be the case until their traditional support-base - the disaffected middleclasses - go bananas when the recession bites hard.

That may be the traditional support base of fascism, but not of the BNP-or any other British far-right group in the past.

Vast numbers of the disaffected middle class would only look to the BNP if they could demonstrate their ability to achieve something.

 

[LLETSA]

The fash will pick up votes from those who are disaffected of all classes.

But only as a minor political current. And they will only keep those votes long-term if they can demonstrate that they are a serious party.