BNP - another close call
- Thread starter liampreston
- Start date
Patriotism: In a free society it shouldnt be mandatory to be patriotic, plenty of native British people would say they arent patriotic. why should they have to be, why should anyone else who settles here? Should those British people who live in Spain providing resources for British holidaymakers be patriotic to the Spanish what if they do want to be.
flying the flag/celebrating our Country: Is that really a tradition, I have only really ever seen anyone fly the flag during sporting tournaments and royal occasions, I have never known any non-native British person complain about this. Far from it, most foreigners love it. Why wouldnt they. Why would it be a problem if they didn't want to get involved, native British or non natives, what about freedom of choice?
helping out anyone in need: How often do you give to the homeless? offer a tramp in for a meal? I am willing to accept as a nation we are a pretty charitable lot. Im not sure this is a national trait. I think since Thatcher we as a nation have become rather self-centred and greedy.
being polite, being well dressed: You can see this and the opposite in all subcultures in the UK.
supporting British industry: The fact that people come here to work contributes towards our GDP thereby creating growth for our nation. Very often immigrants create businesses and forge very successful partnerships with their native lands, creating export growth, and importing goods at cost effective price margins.
sport: Most immigrant cultures are involved in sport, some more involved in some sports than others, looking around a football ground and youll see people of all persuasions. The asians love cricket far more than the Brits.
Food: As I said above we have a much more interesting choice of food available to us now, I dont think many people would want to limit our diet through a nationalist dogma.
Christianity: Difficult one, but given this country's crusade against the different christian sects over the years, I think thats more trouble than its worth.
goldenecitrone
post tenebras lux
How would you feel about a celibate gay priest marrying an infertile nun of a different race? Obviously if neither of them were Catholics.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Hmm, it's arguable that the middle class have only really existed as a significant social grouping for 200-250 years. before that their numbers were too small to really matter insofar as culture was concerned, they merely aped their supposed betters.
That's not "tradition and culture", that's buying into a myth of national identity that's never actually existed "in the real world".
These will be the same parents who, if they visit the country of their birth, are invariably treated as "foreigners" because they have absorbed the customs and traditions of their host country.
Absolute racist Tebbit-ite bollocks. I grew up in a multi-ethic working-class neighbourhood in the 60s and 70s. None of the people I grew up with, whether their parents were mixtures of "native" British, "West Indian", "Chinese", "Indian", "Pakistani", "Maltese", "North African", "Nigerian" or "Portuguese" grew up to be like what you claim.
One of the best soldiers I knew was the British-born son of a black Trinidadian woman and a white south Londoner. He loved the UK and it's traditions so much that he used to get pissed off seeing racist skinheads defiling it's symbol and give them a kicking.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I'd argue that what tends to happen is that customs and traditions don't disappear, but often become normalised within the over-arching "parent culture" so deeply that they seem to be "native" customs and traditions.
Why do people get so heated about what the BNP would do if 'in power'?
The BNP are not about getting into power, or even into office-and even if they did they would be as unable to carry out as many of their aims, as, say, the SWP would theirs if, by some miracle, they came to head up a government.
The BNP are not about getting into power, or even into office-and even if they did they would be as unable to carry out as many of their aims, as, say, the SWP would theirs if, by some miracle, they came to head up a government.
ericjarvis
give a feck for the feckless
Or Morris (Moorish) dancing, fish and chips (a combination of a Sephardic Jewish dish and a Flemish dish), wearing ties (an import from Croatia), etc.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
They dont need to be in power. When they attain any kind of office there is a rise in race based assault, abuse etc.
They also get to use our tax money for propaganda etc. Any headway for them is bad news.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
It's not about the BNP "getting into power", it's about the normalisation of what are hard-rightist policies into mainstream political discourse, just as some NF policies were normalised by the tories in the late 70s and early 80s. If mainstream politics are taken further right-ward, it's the disadvantaged (as usual) who stand to lose the most.
Its an interesting viewpoint that im sure many immigrant parents would disagree with based on their own offspring
certainly over a wider time period thats probably true.Do we have any evidence for this?
I never said their making headway wasn't bad news, just that ranting about what they'd allegedly do paints a picture of them being able to both get into power and act with impunity, neither of which is possible.
Yes, I know. Those are not ther points I was commenting on.
Which NF policies were normalised by the Tories?
ericjarvis
give a feck for the feckless
Please lets not go down this route again..... (and btw I think you are totally wrong on the Moorish dancing, but there was another thread about that
Probably am. Just trying to present the simple fact that we may be an island, but boats were invented rather a long time ago.
I read a book (Enemies of the State) that said that the bloke from Searchlight was gonna be bumped off by the powers that be as he was about to reveal links between a leading Tory MP and nazis. As it happens HE had connections of his own in the security services and they sorted it out for him.
But thats how close Thatchers Govt were to the fash.
Links between certain Tory MPs and the far-right are well-known.
But what policies did the Tories take from the NF?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Immigration, mainly (1981 British Nationality Act), but also a couple of their slightly less mad CJ ideas.
To what extent was that Act taken from the programme of the NF? Was it nearer to the policy of the NF than to the immigration policies of previous governments?
What were these slightly less mad CJ (criminal justice?) ideas?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
I can't quantify a percentage for you, but the NF were pushing for wholesale removal of any right of Commonwealth subjects to settle here (something that Labour and the Conservatives had been approaching in a piecemeal manner in response to events such as Kenya and Uganda expelling their populations of South Asian origin), the Conservatives then adopted a more forceful line on immigration that was presented as a "clampdown", but which actually, policy-wise, was realised as a set of exclusions and re-definitions in the 1981 act.
In it's effect, yes IMO. Obviously the parliamentary tories were canny enough not to over-play the policy's "birthplace", but I remember plenty of crowing in my local Conservative club (they did half-price drinks for servicemen at the time, which was why I was drinking there!).
IIRC one was to do with re-jigging in-prison punishments for inmates to make them more punitive (and ended up causing a wave of sickies by POA members), and the other main one was to do with sentencing. I'll have to try to exhume some old notes to find the actual Bill and Act refs, though.
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