Blimey. Soccerball really is taking off in the US

[editor]

Its the hipsters apparently http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/17/f...-popularity-in-new-york-creative-circles.html

He cited several reasons for the fetish for English soccer in particular: the Premier League’s ubiquity on television, the lack of a language barrier. And, of course, there is garden-variety Anglophilia.

Mr. Bennett, for his part, suggested another: the early start of the games in bars.

“You should never underestimate the allure of daytime drinking,” Mr. Bennett said. “If you’re in a bar at 7 in morning with a pint of Guinness, you have a social problem. If you are in a bar at 7 in the morning with that same pint of Guinness and Chelsea is on TV, you’re a football fan.”

 

[8den]

That sounds like a threat

Yes if it goes ahead I am planning on becoming a supervillian and crush soccer like that fucking idiotic nike ad.

 

[Belushi]

It's this deluded fool I feel sorry for..

Rosie Schaap, an American-born memoirist who considers herself a die-hard Tottenham Hotspur fan. (She also writes the monthly Drink column for The New York Times Magazine).

 

[8den]

I want to drop Rosie off at Seven Sisters a hour before they're at home to Chelsea.

 

[mack]

I liked this piece about injury time - after Portugal's last minute goal v the Yanks

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/24/s...d-cup-underscores-soccers-strange-rules.html?

I suppose they have a point - why can't the ref have a stop watch linked to a big clock at the side of the pitch - might actually get more than an hours worth of the ball actually moving.

 

[8den]

Oh boo fucking hoo. What's next complaining that offside is too complicated?

 

[Lord Camomile]

Like a power-mad dictator, the referee can set the limits according to his whim.

That may be overstating it slightly

I think a lot of people think football's timekeeping could be improved though - don't understand why they can't just stop the clock for particular incidents

 

[T & P]

Its the hipsters apparently http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/17/f...-popularity-in-new-york-creative-circles.html

Where are your drinks, you tight-fisted twats?

 

[T & P]

Ohh, the captions to the Premiership club crests on that article are good

Manchester United This club is the Yankees. By rooting for one of the dominant sports brands in the world, you will be signing on for a lifetime of eye rolls from rivals. Famous fans: Justin Timberlake, Orlando Bloom.

Manchester City Long considered a scruffy stepchild next to Man U, City has cleaned up nicely since an Abu Dhabi investment group took over in 2008. Famous fans: Liam and Noel Gallagher of Oasis, Timothy Dalton.

Everton Fans from the “blue side” of Liverpool have been rewarded lately by seeing their Toffees overachieve, thanks in part to the American goalkeeper Tim Howard. Famous fans: Paul McCartney (vaguely), Judi Dench.

Newcastle United Thanks to those home jerseys featuring vertical black-and-white stripes, Americans may confuse them for referees. But the Magpies have rebounded from tough times. Famous fans: Tony Blair, Sting.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Qatar World Cup 'Will Not Be Held In Summer' http://news.sky.com/story/1191990/qatar-world-cup-will-not-be-held-in-summer

The 2022 World Cup will not be played in Qatar during June and July, Fifa Secretary General Jerome Valcke has said.
Speaking to French radio, Valcke ruled out holding the controversial tournament in the heat of the Gulf state’s summer, when temperatures can reach 50C, saying a date between November and January 2023 would be more appropriate.
"The dates for the World Cup will not be June to July," Valcke, the second most powerful man in international football's governing body, told Radio France.
"To be honest, I think it will be held between November 15 and January 15 at the latest.

Incredible hubris.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

It's taking off even more in Canada.

The evidence is mounting, even with Canada ranked near the bottom of the world standings. To date, audiences are averaging 1.5 million per game and only one World Cup game has failed to draw at least a million viewers to CBC. (What do we have against Mexico and Cameroon?) Not only that, but the first-round game between England and Italy averaged 2.8 million viewers -- only 500,000 behind the final game of the Stanley Cup tournament.

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/e...rt-world-cup-audiences-runneth-150659421.html

The US average ratings:

So far, the games have averaged 4.3 million viewers, up from 2.8 million in 2010.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/24/b...tch-outdoes-world-series-in-ratings.html?_r=0

Their average viewership is just under three times ours - but their population is ten times as large. So per capita, three times as many Canadians are watching as Americans.

 

[souljacker]

What I find a little bit hard to understand, is that the MLS starts this Friday. Is there any other league in the world that is on at the same time as the World Cup?

 

[mhendo]

What I find a little bit hard to understand, is that the MLS starts this Friday. Is there any other league in the world that is on at the same time as the World Cup?

The NHL (ice hockey) season finished a couple of weeks ago, and the NBA (basketball) finals just wrapped up last week. American football preseason doesn't start for about 6 weeks, and the regular season is more than two months away. The only major sport currently underway is baseball. This might go part of the way to explaining the MLS schedule in the United States.

As for the general popularity of football in the US, i don't think i'd read to much into it. The fact that a bunch of Americans will watch a few games every four years, when they can indulge in nationalistic sentiment and at the same time see themselves as the underdogs, is not likely to translate into football becoming a major force in domestic sport.

Those hipsters who might be happy to watch it in bars probably won't drag themselves to an actual game and, even more importantly, the weekly television audience would be unlikely to reach a level that would justify the massive television contracts that make sports like the NFL so wealthy.

 

[Silva]

Those hipsters who might be happy to watch it in bars probably won't drag themselves to an actual game and, even more importantly, the weekly television audience would be unlikely to reach a level that would justify the massive television contracts that make sports like the NFL so wealthy.

They're a top 10 league in terms of attendance, in a country where the sport still faces a lot of image challenges.

 

[mhendo]

They're a top 10 league in terms of attendance, in a country where the sport still faces a lot of image challenges.

True, they do get decent attendance. But the attendance itself isn't enough. Even if they filled every stadium to capacity for every game, it's not enough to make the sport a real contender. That's why i went on to mention the TV issue. It's really the TV contracts that help to keep the big sports so wealthy, and football is not at the stage where any American broadcaster is going to pay the same sort of money as they do for the NFL or the NBA.

MLS games on NBC averaged fewer than 250,000 viewers last year, and MLS has to compete not just with the "Big 4" of baseball, American football, basketball, and hockey, but also with incredibly popular events like NASCAR (i refuse to call it a sport) and college football, which is massive over here.

I've been impressed with the success of MLS, but i think that it might have to accept that it can only ever be a success as a niche sport within the US domestic market. There are a significant number of Americans who love football, but there are even more who go crazy for it, in a limited way, every four years, and then promptly ignore it until the next World Cup comes around.

 

[Silva]

True, they do get decent attendance. But the attendance itself isn't enough. Even if they filled every stadium to capacity for every game, it's not enough to make the sport a real contender. That's why i went on to mention the TV issue. It's really the TV contracts that help to keep the big sports so wealthy, and football is not at the stage where any American broadcaster is going to pay the same sort of money as they do for the NFL or the NBA.

MLS games on NBC averaged fewer than 250,000 viewers last year, and MLS has to compete not just with the "Big 4" of baseball, American football, basketball, and hockey, but also with incredibly popular events like NASCAR (i refuse to call it a sport) and college football, which is massive over here.

I've been impressed with the success of MLS, but i think that it might have to accept that it can only ever be a success as a niche sport within the US domestic market. There are a significant number of Americans who love football, but there are even more who go crazy for it, in a limited way, every four years, and then promptly ignore it until the next World Cup comes around.

It will all come down to how long NFL is sustainable at the current.

 

[mhendo]

It will all come down to how long NFL is sustainable at the current.

I'm a little curious about what you mean when you say "sustainable."

The NFL is outrageously profitable, incredibly popular, and shows no sign of decline. The only cloud on its horizon right now involves the problems of concussions and other long-term injuries to players.

This is, in fact, a big deal. The NFL agreed last year to pay out a bunch of money (not enough, in my opinion) to compensate players who have suffered head injuries in their careers, and to support research into injury prevention and other related issues. The main threat to the NFL's sustainability, as far as i can see, is whether American parents are willing to continue placing their kids in a sport with such a high risk of head injury. If fewer kids play, it might reduce the talent pool. It might also lead to rule changes that would make American football less brutal, which might in turn lead to it becoming less popular.

But the NFL itself is, as far as i can tell, currently in no danger at all.

 

[Zack Murray]

There's a story like this every world cup. Lets see their domestic game become something real and grassroots, rather than a dumping ground for the last useful years of european superstars.

then stop dumping your players over here haha easy solution

As for the general popularity of football in the US, i don't think i'd read to much into it. The fact that a bunch of Americans will watch a few games every four years, when they can indulge in nationalistic sentiment and at the same time see themselves as the underdogs, is not likely to translate into football becoming a major force in domestic sport.

Those hipsters who might be happy to watch it in bars probably won't drag themselves to an actual game and, even more importantly, the weekly television audience would be unlikely to reach a level that would justify the massive television contracts that make sports like the NFL so wealthy.

no, you're totally right, the MLS is shit. but you've got to be fucking joking if you think the only people watching football in america are hipsters in bars. your user title might be "aussie in america" but you might want to leave the sweeping generalizations to, I dunno, the people who you are actually talking about. NBC practically provides more BPL coverage in america at more times than the UK does. sure, it's not footy on every channel at every time, but there is a huge market for international football at least on the east coast as well as the pacific northwest. go read some statistics on viewership or something


edit: let me go on the record and state that I fucking hate when armchair sociologists from other countries sit on the internet and type about how football could never be popular in america. it already fucking is and you look like a twat to be honest. stick to criticizing your own leagues and keep your grubby little fingers away from our own excitement. i don't mean "you" to mean you specifically, mhendo, but "you" referring to all the aforementioned armchair sociologists

 

[mhendo]

but you've got to be fucking joking if you think the only people watching football in america are hipsters in bars.

Hey, moron, if you'd take your cock out of your hand and read my fucking post, you'd understand that i never said that.

My reference to hipsters was merely in response to the earlier post about the rise of hipster football watching in places like New York. I'm well aware that millions of Americans watch football, particularly millions of people from immigrant backgrounds. In my own city of San Diego, tens of thousands watch football, mainly the large numbers of people with Mexican and Central American backgrounds, but also immigrants from African countries like Nigeria, Ethiopia, and Somalia, as well as plain old white-bread Americans.

So fucking bite me.

 

[grubby local]

Average MLS attendances bigger than average national domestic Brazilian league attendances. Fact.
gx

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

True, they do get decent attendance. But the attendance itself isn't enough. Even if they filled every stadium to capacity for every game, it's not enough to make the sport a real contender. That's why i went on to mention the TV issue. It's really the TV contracts that help to keep the big sports so wealthy, and football is not at the stage where any American broadcaster is going to pay the same sort of money as they do for the NFL or the NBA.

MLS games on NBC averaged fewer than 250,000 viewers last year, and MLS has to compete not just with the "Big 4" of baseball, American football, basketball, and hockey, but also with incredibly popular events like NASCAR (i refuse to call it a sport) and college football, which is massive over here.

I've been impressed with the success of MLS, but i think that it might have to accept that it can only ever be a success as a niche sport within the US domestic market. There are a significant number of Americans who love football, but there are even more who go crazy for it, in a limited way, every four years, and then promptly ignore it until the next World Cup comes around.

I'll maintain my prediction that in ten years, the US will be a world soccer powerhouse, for a number of reasons. The demographic of the US is changing, with many immigrants from Hispanic, soccer-loving countries. MLS is expanding into larger markets.

And most importantly, it has become the largest amateur youth sport in the country.

US Youth Soccer is the largest member of the United States Soccer Federation, the governing body for soccer in the United States. US Youth Soccer is a nationwide body of over 600,000 volunteers and administrators, and over 300,000 dedicated coaches, most of who also are volunteers. US Youth Soccer registers over 3,000,000 youth players between the ages of five and nineteen. US Youth Soccer is made up of 55 member State Associations; one in each state, and two in California, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Texas.

http://www.usyouthsoccer.org/aboutus/WhatIsYouthSoccer/

If the demand is there, tv will follow.

 

[Maltin]

What I find a little bit hard to understand, is that the MLS starts this Friday. Is there any other league in the world that is on at the same time as the World Cup?

It started In March.

Here is a list of other leagues that play during the summer. I'm sure some others may also continue during the World Cup.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Summer_association_football_leagues

On checking, only Iceland carried on. The US had a two week break. Norway are on a 3 week break currently but played on the opening day and start up again in July. Japan took a break for the whole World Cup.

 

[mhendo]

I'll maintain my prediction that in ten years, the US will be a world soccer powerhouse, for a number of reasons. The demographic of the US is changing, with many immigrants from Hispanic, soccer-loving countries. MLS is expanding into larger markets.

And most importantly, it has become the largest amateur youth sport in the country.

http://www.usyouthsoccer.org/aboutus/WhatIsYouthSoccer/

If the demand is there, tv will follow.

I will be interested to see what the changing demographic does to America's global football strength. The growth of Latino immigrants has certainly changed American politics and culture over the past couple of decades, especially in border states, so there's certainly a possibility that it could also change sporting culture.

One of the key issues is whether the interest in youth soccer will persist, especially among the most talented athletes, as they get older. The ubiquity of high-profile, highly-paid athletes from sports like baseball, basketball, and American football means that American youth has tended to view these sports as the most desirable, especially when it come to those who really have the athletic potential to move to the pro level. Many Americans who play soccer as kids begin to move to the more traditional American sports as they get to high school. I'll be interested to see if that trend changes very much.

Sporting cultures persist tenaciously within nations, and shifting the overall culture away from the "big 3" (big 4 if you include hockey) in the US is a bigger challenge than simply enrolling more kids in youth soccer. It could be that the rise of Latino immigrants and other groups will help to shift that culture, but it is often the case that the children of immigrants gravitate towards the sporting culture of their adopted country, partly in order to fit in, and partly because that's where the greatest rewards seem to be. One thing that competitions like the World Cup, and the broadcasting of leagues like the English Premier League can do, though, is make clear to American kids that being a professional soccer player can offer the same sort of rewards, in terms of money and fame, as making the NBA or NFL or MLB.

One thing, it seems to me, that might benefit soccer in the US is that, unlike the major American pro sports, it is a sport where sheer size and strength does not offer such massive advantages. The players in all the American pro sports are, on the whole, much bigger than the average person. Check out the tables on this page. While there has been a trend of soccer players getting bigger, there are plenty of outstanding short players around, and Barcelona, one of the best club teams in the world, is also the shortest team in Europe (or was in 2011, when this article was written. If the bigger guys score the spots on the basketball and baseball and American football teams, smaller guys with skills could gravitate towards soccer.

Of course, producing more soccer players is not quite the same thing as increasing the popularity of soccer as a professional spectator sport. It is possible, for example, that the US will begin to produce more world-class players, but that those players will continue (like Clint Dempsey and others) to make their name predominantly in foreign leagues like the Premier League, Bundesliga, Serie A, etc., etc. And it is possible that this will happen without really generating much more domestic interest in soccer beyond the current spike in interest every four years during the World Cup.

For domestic interest to turn soccer into a true competitor for the other big pro sports will take more than some World Cup success, or a few more Americans in the European leagues. It's all about the media, and whether there's any media outlet that is really willing to put big money into the broadcasting of the sport. Yes, ESPN and NBC broadcast MLS, but last season ESPN averaged under 230,000 viewers per game, and NBC was closer to 100,000. That's in a country of over 300 million people.

NBC's EPL rating are much better, with almost 5 million people combining to watch the final weekend's games this season. But this number represented almost 20 percent of NBC's total EPL audience for the year, and it's not quite clear that Americans are willing to devote hours a week to soccer throughout the season, especially during the period from August to January when college football and the NFL dominate American sports viewing.

I would love it if Americans got more into soccer. For one thing, if there was more available on free-to-air TV, it would mean that i could watch more Premier League games without having to download them from the internet. And i think it's probable that soccer will continue to grow as a participant sport, a spectator sport, and a media sport in the United States. It's even possible that the US will become a world power in international competition. But i really doubt that it will do more than fill niche—possibly quite a large niche, but still a niche—in the American sports media landscape. The hold of the big 3 sports is just too great, i think.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

One of the key issues is whether the interest in youth soccer will persist, especially among the most talented athletes, as they get older. The ubiquity of high-profile, highly-paid athletes from sports like baseball, basketball, and American football means that American youth has tended to view these sports as the most desirable, especially when it come to those who really have the athletic potential to move to the pro level. Many Americans who play soccer as kids begin to move to the more traditional American sports as they get to high school. I'll be interested to see if that trend changes very much..

What will help change the trend, is the expansion of MLS into larger markets: New York, Orlando, then Atlanta and Miami. As the league gains exposure and popularity in these markets, salaries will go up for the players, giving young players something to aspire to. The MLS league's goal is to be one of the primary soccer leagues in the world by 2022. It is starting to be backed by big money: Paul Allen has a team, the Red Bull founders, and a number of other billionaires. They have the money necessary to make their investment pay off.

I think a more insidious challenge comes from the entrenched nature of the big four leagues: football baseball hockey and basketball. Not just fan support, but the interrelationship between the leagues and the media. Soccer is very popular here in Vancouver, but you'd never know it judging by media coverage. Difficult to prove, but I expect that things are arranged such that the clubs and the media have.... mutual interests in preserving the status quo.

 

[Zack Murray]

Hey, moron, if you'd take your cock out of your hand and read my fucking post, you'd understand that i never said that.

my dick remains firmly grasped and wow gee huh, people watching footy that aren't immigrants certainly sounds like, i dunno, america growing its own domestic fanbase

 

[ska invita]

One of the key issues is whether the interest in youth soccer will persist, especially among the most talented athletes, as they get older. The ubiquity of high-profile, highly-paid athletes from sports like baseball, basketball, and American football means that American youth has tended to view these sports as the most desirable, especially when it come to those who really have the athletic potential to move to the pro level. Many Americans who play soccer as kids begin to move to the more traditional American sports as they get to high school. I'll be interested to see if that trend changes very much.

id guess thats partly to do with scholarships as much as anything (and the respective lack of social funding for education costs)

 

[mhendo]

id guess thats partly to do with scholarships as much as anything (and the respective lack of social funding for education costs)

I think that's probably part of it, but an improved soccer league, with early talent development camps and decent pay, would certainly be a draw for talented youth.

It will also be interesting to see what happens to the really big college sports like American football and basketball. There's a real push in some circles to force them to pay the athletes that bring so much money to the universities, and the National Labor Relations Board in Chicago issued a ruling a while back saying that players on the Northwestern University football team were employees and not merely students.

I don't know how much of this news you folks get in the UK, but the way that some sports dominate what are supposed to be educational institutions is ridiculous. Historian Taylor Branch wrote a really nice article for the Atlantic Monthly a few years back outlining some of the shitty practices, and arguing that the players should be paid.

 

[xslavearcx]

It will all come down to how long NFL is sustainable at the current.

Is that in reference to the relationship of the concussions issue with parents encouraging their kids to do other sports - meaning a possible decline in quality in a few years time? Not something i know much about but from what i've read i think this might be a factor to the long term sustainability in american football - although in saying that, plenty of other sports have managed to transition from being a contact sport to being almost contactless and still had a momentum in generating interest (football being the obvious example)

I would love it if Americans got more into soccer. For one thing, if there was more available on free-to-air TV, it would mean that i could watch more Premier League games without having to download them from the internet. And i think it's probable that soccer will continue to grow as a participant sport, a spectator sport, and a media sport in the United States. It's even possible that the US will become a world power in international competition. But i really doubt that it will do more than fill niche—possibly quite a large niche, but still a niche—in the American sports media landscape. The hold of the big 3 sports is just too great, i think.

There seems to be a general tone on this thread that the possibility of football becoming a dominant sport in the USA would be a good thing. I personally would think it would suck if soccer became dominant in yet another country; one of the things i like about america is the fact that it has a set of a few sports which attracts interest accross large sections of society; i think one of the bad things about the global dominance about soccer is the detriment it has to other sporting codes. Scotland is an extreme example, ill grant, but over here the amount of attention paid to football in contrast with other sports is really depressing and has IMO a limiting impact upon kids who are not good at football or may have interests in other sports to not really have the opportunity to take them up due to the fact such sports carry next to no social value over here. In the US people having knowledge of and opions on more than one sports seems to be the norm - that seems to be far more healthy than the hegemony of soccer which seems to be the trend for most of the rest of the world.

And this (taken from the hipster article) really annoys me:

But football — a term some Americans have learned to appropriate without wincing — is a communal experience, even when you grew up 3,000 or 6,000 miles from the community that you have adopted as your sporting home.

“You buy into the history and the tradition, the values of the club,” said Bryan Lee, a digital brand strategist who grew up in Southern California and lives in Greenpoint. He showed up in a vintage gray Liverpool away jersey. “Historically, Liverpool has been a blue-collar port city,” added Mr. Lee, 24, as thoughtful as if he were delivering his orals at graduate school. “The politics of Liverpool was really sort of anti-Thatcher. It’s become the people’s club. Those hardworking blue-collar values never really left, even though it’s been ushered into the modern era of the club being a global franchise.”

In a neighborhood that places a premium on authenticity, soccer offers plenty — at least compared to garish, earsplitting telecasts of American team sports.

Makes me wonder if this is one of the marketing strategies of the EPL in the states, selling some kinda brand of authenticity towards identifying with a particular club in the EPL. Something that is a very unsustainable proposition to maintain in this age of 'modern' football. And lets face it the idea of a club actually having anything to do with its supporters has been a hard thing to sustain for a long part of footballs history, since (perhaps) when football clubs ceased to be clubs and became limited liability buisnesses instead - a pretty early development in football. Over here we get the rhetoric of football clubs becoming like franchises as a kinda worst case scenario, but really what difference does being a Ltd buisness, a franchise, or a PLC really make in terms of the idea of a sport being the outgrowth of some kinda community? All those buisness models ultimately have a customer relationship with the people that go to watch them - so romantising football clubs as some kinda communal institution pretty much comes down to (IMO) a marketing tool.

Bad example also by that article to pick liverpool FC given its record of running down the immediate area its situated in by buying up all the properties in the area for the sake of its long term stadium development plans. Very blue collar that...

Even the so-called fan-owned clubs like Barca are about as fan owned as me having a co-op loyalty card makes me an owner with some kinda clout in the co-op!

 

[xslavearcx]

Newcastle United Thanks to those home jerseys featuring vertical black-and-white stripes, Americans may confuse them for referees. But the Magpies have rebounded from tough times. Famous fans: Tony Blair, Sting.

bet there was fun in the Newcastle united press office when those endorsements of their club was printed!

 

[chieftain]

There's a story like this every world cup. Lets see their domestic game become something real and grassroots, rather than a dumping ground for the last useful years of european superstars.

A friend of mine from the UK coaches kids in the US. He tells me its getting very popular with the yoots and a good junior league system is already in place.