Blair Out -Orange Revolution Mayday

[JonnyT]

You are organising within the status quo and not challenging it. That's conservatism That you can't deny...

Acting on those things which affect our lives directly rather than creating abstract spectacle with no relation to everyday life is "conservative"?

 

[greenman]

Ahem...
Back in my pro-situ days I took that quote from Vaneigem as a revolutionary rejection of the boredom and passivity inherent in (most peoples) everyday life, a call for abandonment of constraints, not an acceptance of constraints (and recommendation for banging your head against the wall of the passivity of your fellow workers in most workplaces in current UK environment), as In Bloom seems to be suggesting.
As for calling for things that seem impossible - I believe the slogan was "Be Realistic, Demand the Impossible!"
Any action which has the possibility of transcendence (Father Gapon et al, anyone? Boston teaparty? The Nanterre evenements? etc etc) has the possibility of subversion and evolution into something more promising.
It is often the zeitgeist of open radical (if doomed or incomplete) challenges to the status quo on a large scale that give the impetus and environment for radical grassroots organising. You do not often get a sudden revolutionary upsurge in one workplace where general social and political conditions are peaceful! (And if you do by some chance, it will obviously be isolated and fragile)
Ah, Happy Days.........

 

[In Bloom]

Ahem...
Back in my pro-situ days I took that quote from Vaneigem as a revolutionary rejection of the boredom and passivity inherent in (most peoples) everyday life, a call for abandonment of constraints, not an acceptance of constraints (and recommendation for banging your head against the wall of the passivity of your fellow workers in most workplaces in current UK environment), as In Bloom seems to be suggesting.

Then you have somewhat misunderstood me.

You can only reject the boredom and alienation of everyday life under capitalism and its constaints if you first act in a way that is relevant to everyday life.

By saying no to the boss, by striking for that higher wage or a longer break or more paid sick days, you are attacking the very foundations upon which capitalism is built, you are abandonning the constraints within which you are expected to act.

 

[treelover]

If we want to get people engaged again we have to go back to basics: apparently on the BNP website, there is a landlords charter, which states what landlord should to have to do for their tenants, new furnishings, etc. When is the last time the old left came up with something like that?

 

[Hawkeye Pearce]

Great idea. Turn up in whitehall, everyone gets arrested or beaten by the coppers and the world turns on. Look it would be nice to think that we could all go down to london surround parliament and the whole thing collapses like a house of cards but that is not how it works. Even with something like the events in Ukraine what that was, was the culmination of years of a large section of the population being sick to death of the rotten corrupt practices of the pro putin elite. The whole thing was also funded by rich people (Timoshenko etc) and was supported by the western political classes, can hardly see that happening here. The truth is that the surrounding of parliament and the dissolution of a government by mass action would only ever happen at the end of a process of strikes, defiance of the police and the states authority disintegrating then the ruling class would panic and force a change of government and throw a few concessions out to appease people. The situation in Britain at the moment is one where the political elite are discredited but the mass of people feel powerless to affect any change in their lives so are hardly going to drop everything and run off to London for an indefinite period of time.

Oh and if work place organisation is "conservative" then the CNT in Spain must have been ultra conservatives and so must every other anarcho-syndicalist union that ever existed. If people can't believe in their ability to take on the boss in the workplace how the hell do you expect them to take on the armed power of the state? Everything starts with the basics, if people see how the whole system is rigged against them and that the ultimate guarantor of the power of the bosses is the state only then will a change come. But to get there will take years of organising and working against not only the management but bureaucratic union bosses as well. In other words we are possibly years away from any large upheavals that could lead to a positive change. The sooner we all stop dreaming and get on with organising over the things in our work and communities the sooner a change will come.

 

[The Black Hand]

Great idea. Turn up in whitehall, everyone gets arrested or beaten by the coppers and the world turns on. Look it would be nice to think that we could all go down to london surround parliament and the whole thing collapses like a house of cards but that is not how it works. Even with something like the events in Ukraine what that was, was the culmination of years of a large section of the population being sick to death of the rotten corrupt practices of the pro putin elite. The whole thing was also funded by rich people (Timoshenko etc) and was supported by the western political classes, can hardly see that happening here. The truth is that the surrounding of parliament and the dissolution of a government by mass action would only ever happen at the end of a process of strikes, defiance of the police and the states authority disintegrating then the ruling class would panic and force a change of government and throw a few concessions out to appease people. The situation in Britain at the moment is one where the political elite are discredited but the mass of people feel powerless to affect any change in their lives so are hardly going to drop everything and run off to London for an indefinite period of time.

Oh and if work place organisation is "conservative" then the CNT in Spain must have been ultra conservatives and so must every other anarcho-syndicalist union that ever existed. If people can't believe in their ability to take on the boss in the workplace how the hell do you expect them to take on the armed power of the state? Everything starts with the basics, if people see how the whole system is rigged against them and that the ultimate guarantor of the power of the bosses is the state only then will a change come. But to get there will take years of organising and working against not only the management but bureaucratic union bosses as well. In other words we are possibly years away from any large upheavals that could lead to a positive change. The sooner we all stop dreaming and get on with organising over the things in our work and communities the sooner a change will come.

Oh yes, the CNT, the ones who entered the government during the 'revolution' I am more a 'Friend of Durruti' than the CNT pal...

And all your 'local organising' has amounted to what? Didly squat

This reminds me of the AF member who critisised Ian Bone by saying "All you have got is dwelling on former glories"... And Ian correctly replied, "but you haven't even got those"... and that is the crux of the matter.

Either you want to try something that builds upon the struggles that are going on all over the country, or you do what conservatives like you appear to want, and that is to tightly control and mediate the forms class struggle can take... I prefer to support class struggles where ever and whatever they are, and I participate in the ones that affect me...

BTW - Its almost like believing in the Holy Ghost, the 'anarcho syndicalist union' that will lead us to the promised land...

 

[The Black Hand]

You can't act outside of capitalism, it is everywhere in our society, you can only challenge capitalism by acting against the assumptions on which it is built.

You missed the point, I said you were acting within capitalism and not challenging the status quo; I didn't say act 'outside' of capitalism...

The working class (as a whole, or as much as musters) must want to not be working class, it is not enough to 'be' working class...

 

[The Black Hand]

Then you have somewhat misunderstood me.

You can only reject the boredom and alienation of everyday life under capitalism and its constaints if you first act in a way that is relevant to everyday life.

By saying no to the boss, by striking for that higher wage or a longer break or more paid sick days, you are attacking the very foundations upon which capitalism is built, you are abandonning the constraints within which you are expected to act.

Let me think, was it local organising that gave the anti globalisation movements cycles of struggles its boost? NO. IT was challenges and confrontations to the status quo at apparently one part of the capitalist command and control structures that created a dynamic of anti capitalist struggles worldwide that have not gone away...

 

[118118]

Hmm, so what your saying, is if you make enough of a penis out of yourself, you won't be an activist? Hmm.

Nah, just joking like, I couldn't find my Marx with both hands, or whatever.

 

[118118]

I mean, the idea that In Bloom couldn't be subversive unless he liked playing pranks on people, is rediculous

 

[The Black Hand]

I have always thought that if you want popular politics praxis must be popular, and that will only be within the issues of the day.

Grabbing the zeitgeist, being the zeitgeist...

 

[118118]

I have always thought that if you want popular politics praxis must be popular, and that will only be within the issues of the day.

Grabbing the zeitgeist, being the zeitgeist...

Sorry, you think that people are going to socialize production, cos it looks fun?

I have been warned about people like you *eyes narrow*

(Besides which, isn't zeitegiest a management word - and they say that people are taught that the work co-opeartion is alienating!)

 

[fishfingerer]

I have always thought that if you want popular politics praxis must be popular, and that will only be within the issues of the day.

Grabbing the zeitgeist, being the zeitgeist...

So how about this orange revolution bollocks then.

 

[Raw SslaC]

Where has this come from? I saw sticker in the toilets at Stansted airport about it, but it didn't mention mayday just May 1st 6pm Blair out.

Anyway it could be a hoax

 

[Bristolian]

Word of mouth......

It seems to be one of those word of mouth things that just spread -I was in Hastings and Eastbourne last weekend and there were stickers there but none in Bristol yet. Seems like it will happen - all the better if it came from all sorts of people and has NOTHING to do with the Stop the war coalition. it presents exciting possibilities at the very least.

 

[treelover]

.

 

[treelover]

btw, why does it have to be just about the war?, what about nu labours other crimes, brutalities, and the ones to come such as cutting disability benefits.

 

[The Black Hand]

It seems to be one of those word of mouth things that just spread -I was in Hastings and Eastbourne last weekend and there were stickers there but none in Bristol yet. Seems like it will happen - all the better if it came from all sorts of people and has NOTHING to do with the Stop the war coalition. it presents exciting possibilities at the very least.

True - I supported it cos it was mentioned here. I hope its not a hoax.

 

[greenman]

btw, why does it have to be just about the war?, what about nu labours other crimes, brutalities, and the ones to come such as cutting disability benefits.

Make it so.
Carpe diem.

 

[where to]

wheels of revolution set in motion yet?

 

[The Black Hand]

wheels of revolution set in motion yet?

Who knows?

 

[Taxamo Welf]

It seems to be one of those word of mouth things that just spread -I was in Hastings and Eastbourne last weekend and there were stickers there but none in Bristol yet. Seems like it will happen - all the better if it came from all sorts of people and has NOTHING to do with the Stop the war coalition. it presents exciting possibilities at the very least.

even if you do say so yourself eh?

 

[Taxamo Welf]

Where has this come from? I saw sticker in the toilets at Stansted airport about it, but it didn't mention mayday just May 1st 6pm Blair out.

Anyway it could be a hoax

nuh uh; first mention if it was here

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1926760,00.html

 

[TAE]

This is about as impractical a revolutionary idea as there could be. Unless there's some sort of mobilised mass (and I mean mass) movement of ordinary UK citizens that I haven't heard about yet.

Actually this is a tried and tested approach, if enough people take part.

 

[The Black Hand]

So wasting time and energy on something pointless is better than conserving your resources for something useful?

I would rather continue what I'm doing now, which is trying to get my workplace unionised and working on a few campaigns locally that I think could be useful.

You go do that - just don't bother us on here...

 

[The Black Hand]

Leaving aside the fact that this isn't "class struggle action" by any reasonable definition (it is not organised along class lines), unless you have a clear idea of what Blair should be replaced with and why, it is meaningless. What's the point of getting rid of Blair and ending up with Brown?

Meet the new boss, same as the old...

Nobody owns the class war, it belongs to all who mix it with their labour - E.P. Thompson

And you have done anything that even challenged the old boss? Of course many of us realise what maybe involved and why, to assume we don't is patronising.

Just what was the point in getting rid of Margaret Thatcher to get John Major?? Let me remember... Oh yes, it was the class struggle.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

The working class (as a whole, or as much as musters) must want to not be working class, it is not enough to 'be' working class...

Does that mean after your revolution I can sit in a field a smoke pot and not get a job?