Blair Out -Orange Revolution Mayday

[treelover]

I' ve read Paul Kingsnorths book: one no many yeses, superb!

 

[In Bloom]

Instead of arguing about its possibility, why don't we work out where we are going to be and what we are going to do?

Good God, you don't even read your own posts anymore, do you?

What's the point of doing something that absolutely will not work? Besides making yourself feel important, that is.

 

[In Bloom]

Your logic is all negative, i've put all the negative thoughts above in italics.

If you start wrong, you end wrong The point is that we could encourage a new cycle of struggle, through solidarity, through linking struggles, and encouraging unity through this idea which could unite people in practice across ideological lines, across party lines, by building on the popular antipathy to Blair. Now, when it comes to crunch, new possibilities may arise which are simply unpredictable. You want to opt out of even trying, you go do that, but don't sabotage struggles by spreading your angst. The point is to try and spread struggles with potential most effectively, and in the absence of alternatives, it is the best we have got...

What the OP is suggesting isn't struggle, it's more "political activism" divorced from every day life.

 

[tastebud]

*brainaddict posting*

Agree with Crispy, millions - or even hundreds of thousands - of people do not have the desire to stand outside downing street for days or weeks on end. A few dozen might do it, but that won't be enough.

Admittedly I haven't done a yougov poll on this, but then why waste lots of money on researching something that's completely obvious - there isn't enough anger to sustain this kind of thing yet, and it would be pointless anyway if there was no viable and truly different alternative. I mean, what would be the point in it all if Blair did step down only to be replaced by Brown? Or worse, whoever the Tory leader is that week?

Still, if you come up with a better plan, I'm in!

 

[The Black Hand]

What the OP is suggesting isn't struggle, it's more "political activism" divorced from every day life.

That's your opinion, I disagree. As if you can divorce class struggle action against Blair from daily life (you fool, you're negative/wrong again). In case you hadn't noticed Blair has been prime minister for too long and most people want him out...

 

[The Black Hand]

Good God, you don't even read your own posts anymore, do you?

What's the point of doing something that absolutely will not work? Besides making yourself feel important, that is.

You are chasing the holy grail!! There is NO class struggle activity that will get us to the promised land, have you got any suggestions? NO. Well that means this idea is infantecimally (hope i spelled it right) better than what you are offering... I note you are still spreading your angst, sabotaging struggles better than the special branch!! Cos with fools like you 'in the ranks' spreading DEFEAT in advance they don't need to!

 

[Nigel]

Mines A Pint

Your logic is all negative, i've put all the negative thoughts above in italics.

If you start wrong, you end wrong The point is that we could encourage a new cycle of struggle, through solidarity, through linking struggles, and encouraging unity through this idea which could unite people in practice across ideological lines, across party lines, by building on the popular antipathy to Blair. Now, when it comes to crunch, new possibilities may arise which are simply unpredictable. You want to opt out of even trying, you go do that, but don't sabotage struggles by spreading your angst. The point is to try and spread struggles with potential most effectively, and in the absence of alternatives, it is the best we have got...

There was a Faction of the Ex-WRP who had similar ideas to to yours, led by a character called Bob Myers: Almost fucked up the Liverpool Dockers Strike?
Perhaps you could join them Attica?????

 

[The Black Hand]

There was a Faction of the Ex-WRP who had similar ideas to to yours, led by a character called Bob Myers: Almost fucked up the Liverpool Dockers Strike?
Perhaps you could join them Attica?????

He's got nothing to do with me...

 

[In Bloom]

That's your opinion, I disagree. As if you can divorce class struggle action against Blair from daily life (you fool, you're negative/wrong again). In case you hadn't noticed Blair has been prime minister for too long and most people want him out...

Leaving aside the fact that this isn't "class struggle action" by any reasonable definition (it is not organised along class lines), unless you have a clear idea of what Blair should be replaced with and why, it is meaningless. What's the point of getting rid of Blair and ending up with Brown?

Meet the new boss, same as the old...

 

[In Bloom]

You are chasing the holy grail!! There is NO class struggle activity that will get us to the promised land, have you got any suggestions? NO. Well that means this idea is infantecimally (hope i spelled it right) better than what you are offering... I note you are still spreading your angst, sabotaging struggles better than the special branch!! Cos with fools like you 'in the ranks' spreading DEFEAT in advance they don't need to!

So wasting time and energy on something pointless is better than conserving your resources for something useful?

I would rather continue what I'm doing now, which is trying to get my workplace unionised and working on a few campaigns locally that I think could be useful.

 

[VforVictory]

We live, lamentably, in a society of the spectacle that degenerates further and further each day. 6 million plus watched Big Brothel. 24 hour news is the smack of the people.

Yet the planet is burning, and it will be the materially poorest - the ones who pollute least and contribute to global warming the least - who will be worst affected. Planetary injustice and class injustice are interlinked.

Why don't we unite for one day and create the most glorious anti-spectacle the Disunited Kingdom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jello_Biafra#Political_beliefs) has ever seen?

PM us. Let's organise and mobilise.

And CARNIVAL!!!

V for Vaccination. V for Veldt. V for Vigour.

V FOR VICTORY

http://www.bopsecrets.org/SI/debord/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnival

 

[In Bloom]

We live, lamentably, in a society of the spectacle that degenerates further and further each day.

So your solution is what? More spectacle?

"Those who speak of revolution without explicitly referring to everyday life, without understanding the subversive content of love and the positive content in the refusal of constraints, such people have a corpse in their mouths." - Raoul Vaneigem

 

[VforVictory]

So your solution is what? More spectacle?

"Those who speak of revolution without explicitly referring to everyday life, without understanding the subversive content of love and the positive content in the refusal of constraints, such people have a corpse in their mouths." - Raoul Vaneigem

Lovely Vaneigem quotation!

No. Enough spectacle. Time for anti-spectacle.

What will you be creating from Belgium? We look forward to it.

 

[In Bloom]

Lovely Vaneigem quotation!

It is indeed, and you appear to have missed the most important part, truly revolutionary action takes place where we live, within our own lives.

No. Enough spectacle. Time for anti-spectacle.

It is spectacle though. Activism is so caught up in the spectacle of the action, the molotov thrown at the police, the big events, that the most important area of action, that which aims to improve our own lives, is overlooked.

What will you be creating from Belgium? We look forward to it.

I'm not actually in Belgium, it's a quote from a comic.

 

[VforVictory]

So your solution is what? More spectacle?

We could do with anti-spectacles such as helium in newsrooms. This 24 hour 'news' (the relaying of 'war on terror' propaganda) could do with some spicing up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Morris_(satirist)

V FOR VASELINE
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-2315896,00.html

 

[VforVictory]

I'm not actually in Belgium, it's a quote from a comic.

Which one?

 

[mauvais]

This one:

 

[In Bloom]

Which one?

This one

PWNED

 

[In Bloom]

We could do with anti-spectacles such as helium in newsrooms. This 24 hour 'news' (the relaying of 'war on terror' propaganda) could do with some spicing up.

Again, that's just more spectacle. People will either think it's a funny prank or the action of a few numpties. Either way, it acts within the framework of the spectacle.

 

[The Black Hand]

So wasting time and energy on something pointless is better than conserving your resources for something useful?

I would rather continue what I'm doing now, which is trying to get my workplace unionised and working on a few campaigns locally that I think could be useful.

So you are a social democrat ie conservative. There's nothing radical in your activity, the arguments you threw at us are more deserving of yourself!!

You think its pointless, we do not. You're starting to look like a spoiler now, still spreading your angst after it has been pointed out to you. No serious class warrior/working class activist writes struggle off like this. Marx even agreed, which I pointed out on another thread to some other fool.... I'll do it to you if you don't come up with better arguments, or better still shut the fuck up.

 

[In Bloom]

So you are a social democrat ie conservative.

What's so conservative about working class self organisation?

You think its pointless, we do not. You're starting to look like a spoiler now, still spreading your angst after it has been pointed out to you. No serious class warrior/working class activist writes struggle off like this. Marx even agreed, which I pointed out on another thread to some other fool.... I'll do it to you if you don't come up with better arguments, or better still shut the fuck up.

You keep coming out with this crap. You never actually adress the arguments, just make a lot of pointless accusations. Kindly put up or shut up.

 

[In Bloom]

And I couldn't give a fuck if Marx agreed with me or not, you dogmatic arsehole, Marx had some good ideas, he wasn't a prophet and he didn't descend down from a high mountain with Capital carved on stone tablets.

 

[The Black Hand]

What's so conservative about working class self organisation?


You keep coming out with this crap. You never actually adress the arguments, just make a lot of pointless accusations. Kindly put up or shut up.

Well you do not step outside of the status quo, so you're conservative - that much is self evident... As for being told you are a spoiler, that is exactly what you are attempting to do. SO you shut up.

 

[The Black Hand]

And I couldn't give a fuck if Marx agreed with me or not, you dogmatic arsehole, Marx had some good ideas, he wasn't a prophet and he didn't descend down from a high mountain with Capital carved on stone tablets.

ACtually it is you who are the peaceful status quo loving dogmatic arsehole. What we are attempting to do, like Marx, is revolutionary...

 

[In Bloom]

Well you do not step outside of the status quo, so you're conservative - that much is self evident...

By organising along class lines, by campaigning against the incursion of capital into our lives, we step outside of the status quo. Your stuntism merely acts within the status quo as part of so-called "legitimate protest".

Your inability to distinguish form and content is worrying from a self-described "Anarcho-Marxist".

As for being told you are a spoiler, that is exactly what you are attempting to do. SO you shut up.

No I'm not and no I won't. Are you really this incapable of defending the action you are supposed to be arguing in favour of?

 

[The Black Hand]

By organising along class lines, by campaigning against the incursion of capital into our lives, we step outside of the status quo. Your stuntism merely acts within the status quo as part of so-called "legitimate protest".

Your inability to distinguish form and content is worrying from a self-described "Anarcho-Marxist".


No I'm not and no I won't. Are you really this incapable of defending the action you are supposed to be arguing in favour of?

Look, we disagree, I am calling your efforts conservative and reinforcing the status quo. You are not organising along class lines.

You are calling me. End of. We disagree.

I know more about anarchism and Marxism than you That much is true...

 

[In Bloom]

You are not organising along class lines.

Silly me, I was under the impression that organising within our workplaces in order to struggle for our interests against those of the bosses was the very definition of organising along class lines.

I know more about anarchism and Marxism than you That much is true...

What, me bovvered?

 

[The Black Hand]

Silly me, I was under the impression that organising within our workplaces in order to struggle for our interests against those of the bosses was the very definition of organising along class lines.


What, me bovvered?

You are organising within the status quo and not challenging it. That's conservatism That you can't deny...

 

[The Black Hand]

What, me bovvered?

Spotty youth wants to grow up by doing 'real workplace organising'. Big fucking deal...

 

[In Bloom]

You are organising within the status quo and not challenging it. That's conservatism That you can't deny...

You can't act outside of capitalism, it is everywhere in our society, you can only challenge capitalism by acting against the assumptions on which it is built.