Blair declares war on civil liberty

[8ball]

The topic in question was our current money-grubbing power-snatching Government, I don't recall it starting out as a stated platform for your fantastical right-wing guff.

 

[Azrael]

Happy to provide free memory top-up. "... socialism ... greatest success ... mindset that destroys individual liberty" is right there in the first post.

*Prods Fortress Clarke for someone actually willing to defend Blair instead of disagree about what's wrong with him*

 

[8ball]

Ah, right so.

The apparent linking of Blair's antics and socialism made me think that bit was just another grammatical error - my apologies.

Are there no Ayn Rand discussion groups out there any more? Too many lefties in these parts to get a good discussion going based around a category error equating New Labour with collectivism,

 

[Azrael23]

I'm afraid I disagree completely. While I have nothing but praise for socialism's founding greviances, the solution made a Blair inevitable. A conservative in socialist's clothing he's called. But he isn't, no conservative worth their salt would go as far as Blair did. Conservatives might have a fetish for the power of the state, but at least they recognise the dangers of whielding it.

For socialism the state is the cure. Of course Blair is no socialist, but he's warped that ideal to serve his own twisted ends; ends growing from left-, not right-wing, authoritarianism. There's a reason he didn't throw his lot in with the Tories. Which party elected him? Which party votes with him? Which party treats civil liberties as an effete side dish to social justice instead of its lifeblood?

Well said namesake! The left-right system is a fraud...but we all knew that

 

[Azrael]

Ah, right so.

The apparent linking of Blair's antics and socialism made me think that bit was just another grammatical error - my apologies.

No problem.

Are there no Ayn Rand discussion groups out there any more?

Wouldn't know. This is pretty close if you're looking for one.

Too many lefties in these parts to get a good discussion going based around a category error equating New Labour with collectivism,

Quite right too; good thing I never said that.

I said the type and scale of government needed to implement state-based socialism laid the practical and intellectual groundwork for Blair's brand of benevolent authoritarianism; and that his authoritarianism is a distinctly left-wing phenomenon. Check out his (un)reasoning on the Observer if you haven't already, or if you want the short version: we’re enlightened; therefore we must remove anything that will prevent us imposing our enlightenment on the nation.

Call it what you will, but right-wing ideology it ain't.

 

[Jonti]

... arguments to do with database consolidation are hard to get across, except to people who already work with databases (and all of the ones I've talked to on the subject are completely opposed to ID cards).

The point to get across is that tamper-proof Identity Documents are possible. We have the technology.

There already is a huge amount of information out there about each of us. But it's mostly dispersed among a multitude of systems. That's a real protection against abuse. Put it all in one place, and the risk is that it can all be obtained by the wrong person, like someone out to cause harm and distress to the data subject. It's far better to encode that information securely onto the ID card itself, and lock it with a digital signature so that any unauthorised alterations would be detected.

Having a tamper-proof ID card could in fact be rather useful. One is often asked for some form of ID (passport; driving license; bank card). A tamper-proof card issued by the government would do instead. But the information needs to be on the cards themselves, not in a centralised database. There is no need for a centralised computer to track everyone, and expose everyone's personal details to any crook with the contacts and cash to compromise the central computer.

"Card readers" would only need to confirm that the card had been properly issued, and had not subsequently been amended. When shops and the like ask one for ID it is almost always to verify just one's name and address. So that is all the information that needs to be on the basic card. If it's useful and wanted, a person will look after their card, and want it replaced when lost or stolen. It would be fairly simple to cancel the old card and issue a new one.

Should a person find it convenient to have more info on their card (date of birth; NHS number; blood type; tissue types; next-of-kin; last will and testament; finger prints; retinal scan; NI number; criminal record; civil judgements entered against one; other court records; whatever else) then they would be free to have that information added. That extra information could be encoded in such a way that only the data-issuer and other authorised entities would be able to read the data.

There is just no need for a centralised computer to track everyone.

 

[Nigel]

Try learning to debate without playground insults!!!

Or even to debate.

Asscendency is now based, in criminal procceedings through the ECHR, not with the Lord Chancellor, the Law Lords or the Divine Right Of Kings (Monarchs).

Brithish Common Law has been completely undermined. What do you expect

 

[ZAMB]

I sense the populace softening on this issue. It'll start with the passports, the biometrics necessary to get into the US, and creep from there. These fuckers aren't going to force anything through in a single bill.

Don't know about the rest of the UK, but, a couple of years ago, they forced photo-ID cards on people here in NI if they wanted to vote. Used to be I could use my medical card as ID, but they changed the rules, and now I have to have this electoral Identity card - so it seems they're already part of the way there.

 

[MatthewCuffe]

Was there strong protest against it in NI?

 

[ZAMB]

Was there strong protest against it in NI?

Not that I know of. We all wnt along like sheeple as far as I know. It was presented to us as a done deal - if you wanted to vote, and didn't have a driver's licence, you got one of these cards - as other forms of non-photo ID previously used would not be acceptable. I don't know if the % vote went down or not because of this, but you'd want to vote too if you had a scumbag MP like mine, just on the offchance that his majority might just disappear this time and your vote might just make a difference. I guess this way they now have a photo ID of the whole adult population.

 

[Fruitloop]

I'd just like to add that Rand is a tagnut from Satan's fetid anus.

Thanks