Black Flag new issue/relaunch

[lights.out.london]

**unfolds deckchair**

 

[The Black Hand]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Attica
They appear to act rather like the limpcokers, who touch each other up as they self referentially pat each other on the back for a 'job well done'. ha Ha.

lmao - a degree of insular self-congratulatory back-slapping and then down to the pub?

Perhaps I've misunderstood what BF mag is meant to be about? If it's a historical review, it's okay.

It looks like I'll have to start being nice to the Limpcokkers

After years of avoiding some of the most important Marxist politics to come out of the UK in the last 50 years they have finally begun to post some E.P. Thompson on their site. Late - but better late than never;

http://libcom.org/library/time-work-discipline-industrial-capitalism-e-p-thompson

 

[Zhelezniakov]

Don't you think, that you are banging your head against the wall a little bit ?

 

[The Black Hand]

Don't you think, that you are banging your head against the wall a little bit ?

Why? Are they destined not to learn anything?

 

[Zhelezniakov]

Unfortunately it would appear to be you who is destined not to learn anything ? It is not good that you bring back to life a rather unpleasant thread that has been dead for months, or that you start many others that seem to exist only to demonstrate how brilliant you think you are. Your way of doing business on here and elsewhere, rather than turning people onto what you have to say, has the opposite effect and turns them away, I would call this head-banging. Being sure of yourself and your ideas can be a strength, however when you do not listen to anybody, it can also lead to blindness.
I would say that you have become a liability rather than an asset to the project that would encourage working class self activity, I know I am not the only person who thinks this. The revolutionary thing to do, is to stand back and reconsider what you are doing, and change. I know that you may feel on a bit of a high at the moment with a current magazine, but for me, it is painful to see you on here, I cannot see you going anywhere, and I cannot imagine that you enjoy it, I know I wouldn't. Attica mate, I know that your heart is in the right place, but really you need to make some changes

 

[The Black Hand]

Unfortunately it would appear to be you who is destined not to learn anything ? It is not good that you bring back to life a rather unpleasant thread that has been dead for months, or that you start many others that seem to exist only to demonstrate how brilliant you think you are. Your way of doing business on here and elsewhere, rather than turning people onto what you have to say, has the opposite effect and turns them away, I would call this head-banging. Being sure of yourself and your ideas can be a strength, however when you do not listen to anybody, it can also lead to blindness.
I would say that you have become a liability rather than an asset to the project that would encourage working class self activity, I know I am not the only person who thinks this. The revolutionary thing to do, is to stand back and reconsider what you are doing, and change. I know that you may feel on a bit of a high at the moment with a current magazine, but for me, it is painful to see you on here, I cannot see you going anywhere, and I cannot imagine that you enjoy it, I know I wouldn't. Attica mate, I know that your heart is in the right place, but really you need to make some changes

Please do tell me who you are via Pm. Ta.

 

[The Black Hand]

Unfortunately it would appear to be you who is destined not to learn anything ? It is not good that you bring back to life a rather unpleasant thread that has been dead for months, or that you start many others that seem to exist only to demonstrate how brilliant you think you are. Your way of doing business on here and elsewhere, rather than turning people onto what you have to say, has the opposite effect and turns them away, I would call this head-banging. Being sure of yourself and your ideas can be a strength, however when you do not listen to anybody, it can also lead to blindness.
I would say that you have become a liability rather than an asset to the project that would encourage working class self activity, I know I am not the only person who thinks this. The revolutionary thing to do, is to stand back and reconsider what you are doing, and change. I know that you may feel on a bit of a high at the moment with a current magazine, but for me, it is painful to see you on here, I cannot see you going anywhere, and I cannot imagine that you enjoy it, I know I wouldn't. Attica mate, I know that your heart is in the right place, but really you need to make some changes

Hi - I do know what I am doing and I am pissed off with the pathetic lack of politics CWF displayed - Dave Douglass left too remember. Libcom/MATB similarly politically NOWHERE - they are dead websites. The only thing saving limpcok is the library. This website is only one of many, the others the same - irrelevant in the big picture.

I have a position which I will defend, whether it turns people on or off is debateable. But certainly criticism from the usual suspects or stupid attacks (as they all are - i haven't seen any decent political critique of the ideas I promote). If all they have got is abuse they have NOTHING. What is there to change into? I DO NOT WANT TO BE AS STUPID AS THEM.


I do have intellectual ability believe it or not and at the minute there is no opposition, the entire movement is rubbish - my role in that is trying to improve politics via our mag and other efforts. We'll see if it works in the long run.

Do you agree that what there is now is crap? That it will be continually crap unless things change and we do things differently?

That is the direction I am moving in, with - if possible, or without the anarchist movement if necessary, I really couldn't give a toss. I am not going to be defending stale ideological politics for the rest of my life - I aim for the new world, and I know that is what other Maydayers want to.

you are right it is not fun - but who said politics would be fun? I will continue to defend what I see is right. There are enough people I get along without outside of the stale anarchists anyway, I am more interested in what people say who are not 'anarchists' tbh. Cheers.

 

[Zhelezniakov]

I would agree that the opposition to capitalist class society leaves a lot to be desired, only a fool would say otherwise. But if it is shit, do you really think that your contribution is making it better ? Majorities are not always right of course, but when a majority of anarchists are of the same opinion as myself, and I can assure you that they are, when even an ex member of cw calls you as mad as a box of frogs, then surely it is time for you to reconsider what you are doing ? As to who i am, I said something similar to you outside 1968 and all that about two weeks ago, remember ? I don't remember you being none too impressed.

 

[The Black Hand]

I would agree that the opposition to capitalist class society leaves a lot to be desired, only a fool would say otherwise. But if it is shit, do you really think that your contribution is making it better ? Majorities are not always right of course, but when a majority of anarchists are of the same opinion as myself, and I can assure you that they are, when even an ex member of cw calls you as mad as a box of frogs, then surely it is time for you to reconsider what you are doing ? As to who i am, I said something similar to you outside 1968 and all that about two weeks ago, remember ? I don't remember you being none too impressed.

The afore mentioned petulent child was getting precious about his website, that's why he's upset. The others are precious too. Again it takes 2 to tango and I do answer to lies/abuse and so it goes on and on.

Does it help? who knows? Does it hinder? Perhaps? Nobody is any good at the minute with the partial exception of the IWW. I am carving a political space for myself, people like me, and other autonomists. My great published work is what will stand the test of time - I have a review of Kliens Shock Doctrine lined up in a journal, and that is apart from another review i had publshed in 2007, books lined up and more to come.

The other 'anarchists' - i really haven't got a clue what they think they are doing? Whatever it is - it is A) isolated, B) Useless, C) Inneffective. It is self referential - at least I can get my ideas published by other people not in the anarcho ghetto.

Mayday suffers no illusions about this, and you should read it cos it clearly shows what I am describing. We do intend to carve a space and grow in the new zones, with or without the anarchists. The correct place to judge our politics on this one is in 5 years time (2013) when the early attempts to do something better will be more visible. At the minute we are building a base with which to do something more interesting from.

The rest of them have already had too much time and have gone nowhere and done nothing. For them it will be '5 more years of the same old irrelevant shit'. Those who have the real problem is with people who are carrying on 'as normal'. Now its our turn

 

[Zhelezniakov]

Well yes Attica, right on. I suppose I know you well enough, to know that you probably wouldn't listen, I must applaud you, the average rhinoceros has nothing on you. I think that you may have succumbed to a bit of the 'militant attitude' amongst other things. Would you do one thing for me though ? Would you cut out some of your insults along the more U R A COCK variety, I know that sometimes they are complete cunt's, but in my opinion, insults should be used sparingly. Attica, they do not reflect well upon you when you use them. If you were nicer to people, maybe they would be more inclined to listen to you, please dwell upon that.

 

[The Black Hand]

Well yes Attica, right on. I suppose I know you well enough, to know that you probably wouldn't listen, I must applaud you, the average rhinoceros has nothing on you. I think that you may have succumbed to a bit of the 'militant attitude' amongst other things. Would you do one thing for me though ? Would you cut out some of your insults along the more U R A COCK variety, I know that sometimes they are complete cunt's, but in my opinion, insults should be used sparingly. Attica, they do not reflect well upon you when you use them. If you were nicer to people, maybe they would be more inclined to listen to you, please dwell upon that.

You know I think I am too sensitive, i can detect digs in the most innocuous posts, and i don't like it, and it goes on...

I also am obsessed with theory and practice! No, it's true. If I was proved theoretically wrong, or mistaken, then I would have to eat humble pie. That doesn't get proved to me often enough (it does happen believe it or not), but i can't remember it happening at all on the web. The anarchists have a tenuous grip on theory and practice, in truth they keep them well apart - i don't know why, and so they are incapable of developing praxis. Saying that, I think the entire left and the anarchists suffer from that. The absense of a developing praxis is one of the shocking problems of the 21st century left and the anarchists. The other is an inability to work as a progressive movement and build alliances. As you can see there is much theoretical and practical work to be done.

See you on the barricades.