Bizarre few months for Religion and the State in Ireland

Discussion in 'world politics, current affairs and news' started by 8den, May 6, 2017.

  1. 8den

    8den No I'm pretty sure that was 8ball...

    The last few month have provided amazing amounts of Religious lunacy in Ireland. From an order of Nuns hiring a PR "guru" to deny the evidence of a mass grave on the grounds of one of their old "mother and babies homes". The state "gifted" the National Maternity Hospital to another order of Nuns who already are shirking on the debts they owe their victims (mainly pregnant women imprisoned in their Laundries).

    The Citizens Assembly after careful and considered review advised a full repeal of the 8th amendment. The government parties response? Simon Convey said he was "uncomfortable" with the citizen's findings while Michael Martin has said he opposes Abortion even in cases of rape and incest.

    Then in a move that should annoy both atheists and genuine theists, it was made mandatory to stand during the Dail's Catholic Prayer that starts every session.

    Finally this. I'm quietly confident that this move was made by some lunkheaded atheist trying to prove a point. The original interview was broadcast in 2015, so anyone offended by it's "blasphemous" nature had two years to raise hell. I'll also lay odds that said lunkhead never bothered to check with Stephen Fry before involving him in this legal mess. If this person who marched into Ennis Garda had the courage of their convictions they'd have staged a public breaking of the law, and then either turned themselves in or let someone else report it. Then they could deal with the potential hassle and expense of a legal case, instead of possibly entangling Mr Fry into this ridiculous mess.

    Sorry. that's quite a rant. I am however quite tickled by the fact that there's probably a couple of Garda in County Claire currently reading the Wikipedia entries on "blasphemy" & "apostasy"


    Some supporting links.

    Our Worst Fears

    An article including the PR statement by the Sisters of Bon Secours after the first report of the mass graves in Tuam.




    National Maternity Hospital controversy: Five things you need to know today - Independent.ie

    Concerns about possible Vatican intervention in new maternity hospital

    Background the NHM

    Citizens' Assembly votes overwhelmingly for women to have the right to abortion in Ireland - Independent.ie


    Simon Coveney 'uncomfortable' with abortion recommendations

    Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin refuses to endorse abortion in cases of incest | JOE.ie

    The Citizens' Assembly and governing parties reaction.

    TDs have voted to make it compulsory to stand during the Dáil prayer

    New law on Dail Prayer.

    Blasphemy law in Ireland

    Blasphemy law in the Republic of Ireland - Wikipedia

    And the offending Interview broadcast in 2015

     
  2. Idris2002

    Idris2002 the liberation forces make movies of their own

    I'm not coming home if I can help it.
     
  3. 8den

    8den No I'm pretty sure that was 8ball...

    Tories to right of me, FF/FG to right of me...
     
    Poi E likes this.
  4. likesfish

    likesfish officaly hardest and most tooled up urbanite:)

    ffs why did you just miss being under the british boot so much you had to find another abusive relationship?:confused::facepalm:
     
  5. 8den

    8den No I'm pretty sure that was 8ball...

    Funnily enough the Nothern Prods refused to join the free state, because they worried about becoming a religious minority in a monothetist state. and by walking away they ensured Ireland would become that.
     
    tim and likesfish like this.
  6. likesfish

    likesfish officaly hardest and most tooled up urbanite:)

    while trying to do the same idiocy in their own little bit of land:(
     
    PippinTook and 8den like this.
  7. Buckaroo

    Buckaroo Donkey piss and tractors

  8. 8den

    8den No I'm pretty sure that was 8ball...

    Buckaroo likes this.
  9. Idris2002

    Idris2002 the liberation forces make movies of their own

    Your lot tied our main guy to a chair and shot him, which didn't help matters.

    Anyway, I'm worried about this latest round of agitation. The Repealers have got the momentum, but will they be able to carry the country with them? Or will they find that Dublin isn't the whole of Ireland.
     
    Rebelda, likesfish and PippinTook like this.
  10. flypanam

    flypanam Local oaf

    Nevermind Dublin I seriously doubt SF will be able to put forward a coherent position on repealing the 8th and getting their members out to campaign for it.
     
  11. Idris2002

    Idris2002 the liberation forces make movies of their own

    The one bright spot is that the lunatic fringe have nothing like the traction they had 34 years ago, or even the understanding of the society they live in. Advising NI Catholics to vote DUP, I ask you!

    I was talking to my mum the other night, and her line is that behind the handing over of the hospital to the nuns lies another agenda - that agenda being the desire to defend private health care at all costs, regardless of what it might mean for the public sector.
     
  12. flypanam

    flypanam Local oaf

    And I think she's right, and not just health, education too.

    the catholic right in the independent/FF/FG and the neo liberal centre represented by Coveney and Varadkar have an agenda they can come to some uneasy alliance to support. I've no doubt that if such a grouping does have an agenda it will attract the Labour right too esp power whores like Alan Kelly.

    You can see the likes of Norris rolling in behind them too, because after all with gay marriage being legal, he has what he wanted. I think repealing the 8th will be harder to win than the equality as on the face of it, equality benefited a much smaller minority, was socially and economically without cost, and generated international good press.

    I was musing with a mate just last weekend would the Jobstown trial and the open bullshitting of the establishment bring more of Karen O' Connell's 'Dregs' into political activity especially as lack of abortion in Ireland affects wc families more than others.
     
  13. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby how's it going to end?

  14. Teaboy

    Teaboy It definitely looks brighter over there..

  15. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby how's it going to end?

    It will pass. Just. And the lead up to the day will be bitter.

    (In a way, I'm glad I'm out of it)
     
    SpookyFrank and CRI like this.
  16. Idris2002

    Idris2002 the liberation forces make movies of their own

    This. This is the last stand for the old guard. They will throw everything they have at it, and they will stoop to the lowest methods.
     
  17. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby how's it going to end?

    Yeah, have a bad feeling it's going to be nasty - I already can see FB posts from a minority of mates where I will have to bite my tongue...
     
  18. Teaboy

    Teaboy It definitely looks brighter over there..

    Will Irish citizens based in other countries be able to vote? If so can it be done by postal vote?
     
  19. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby how's it going to end?

    Good question. Haven't a clue, personally. Been out of the place for a long time. I doubt it but maybe ex-pats who are only recently moved might be able to vote?
     
  20. Teaboy

    Teaboy It definitely looks brighter over there..

    It strikes me that there are a fair amount of younger generation Irish living elsewhere at the moment. This demographic would surely have an influence on the vote?
     
  21. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby how's it going to end?

    Possibly but I really don't know. Perhaps some other Irish urbs may be better informed?
     
  22. Idris2002

    Idris2002 the liberation forces make movies of their own

    No. We have never been allowed a vote. Because if we were, we would vote on the basis of "from hell's heart I stab at thee".
     
    likesfish and krtek a houby like this.
  23. Idris2002

    Idris2002 the liberation forces make movies of their own

    They did in the marriage equality reffo. That was because they were able to come home to the places where they were registered. Stay away too long, though, and your place on the electoral register will probably lapse.
     
    muscovyduck and krtek a houby like this.
  24. Mordi

    Mordi Amoral adventurist

    I looked into registering to vote in the referendum and I *think* you have to be registered to vote in the last election before you can vote in a referendum. Not 100% on that, but I was hoping the government would collapse just so I could squeeze in.
     
  25. Idris2002

    Idris2002 the liberation forces make movies of their own

    It's getting tasty at home. Latest jolly jape of the anti-abortionists has been to hand out "strike 4 repeal" placards to unsuspecting participants in the latest pro-choice march. Why would they do that? Because these placards had the symbol of Mosley's BUF on them.

    This is the gobshite (in the MAGA cap) responsible:



    Oh, and the government are releasing their policy paper on repeal:

    21 things that will be included in the abortion legislation if a referendum passes
     
  26. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby how's it going to end?

    I can't follow that at all, are the anti-abortionists using underhand tactics, I take it?
     
  27. Idris2002

    Idris2002 the liberation forces make movies of their own

    Yes, they were trying to produce images they could smear the repeal side with.
     
    krtek a houby likes this.
  28. PippinTook

    PippinTook Some are born to sweet delight

    The cabinet signed off on the 8th amendment referendum bill 2 days ago..
    Cabinet signs off on 8th amendment referendum bill
    The referendum will go ahead.

    People here are very much aggrieved and angry with the church who really are on a road to nowhere....and the pro life campaign is quiet enough outside Dublin...there's a bit of noise in Dublin and some media coverage of a few protests but in general there's not a lot of any campaigning going on outside Dublin...

    People will decide...and the church has alienated enough people to make sure that their once domineering attitude is now a barely heard whimper.
     
    muscovyduck, Poi E, clicker and 5 others like this.
  29. CRI

    CRI Registered Chooser

    Government to consider introducing free contraception for all

    Crikey, that would be brilliant.
     
    muscovyduck and krtek a houby like this.
  30. flypanam

    flypanam Local oaf

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