Bishop: BNP are evil. You cannot be a Christian and vote BNP.

[audiotech]

A report on "Churchgoing in the UK" published by Tearfund in April 2007 shows that 15% go to Church at least once a month.

But many more when asked state they are Christian.

While belief in Christianity may have declined at 58% of the population it can still claim to have a majority of the population. Atheists and Agnostics represent 33% of the population and are still in the minority.

 

[butchersapron]

That's a figure far higher than normally reported (Normally 5-7% and on steep year-by-year decline). Oddly enough the report undermines it's own findings by including a chart from a seemingly more authorative (English Church Attendance Survies/the work of Dr Peter Brierley) and that demonstrates it's figures are wrong and suggests the more accepted 5-7% figure.

 

[audiotech]

That's a figure far higher than normally reported (Normally 5-7% and on steep year-by-year decline). Oddly enough the report undermines it's own findings by including a chart from a seemingly more authorative (English Church Attendance Survies/the work of Dr Peter Brierley) and that demonstrates it's figures are wrong and suggests the more accepted 5-7% figure.

Aye, something to do with the methodology.

The chart at the bottom on Church going in the EU gives a figure for the UK at 18.6 percent.

 

[Onket]

sure, like that's going to stop people voting for the fash when all's said and done, in a country where barely anyone goes to church.

ffs

Yeah, for fucks sake, how dare they speak out against the BNP. etc

 

[FridgeMagnet]

A report on "Churchgoing in the UK" published by Tearfund in April 2007 shows that 15% go to Church at least once a month.

But many more when asked state they are Christian.

The actual influence that this bishop has, though, will be based pretty much entirely around the social status of the position of bishop, not any religious authority, we all know that.

It's not like it's relevant anyway, it's hardly a challenging message.

 

[audiotech]

The actual influence that this bishop has, though, will be based pretty much entirely around the social status of the position of bishop, not any religious authority, we all know that.

It's not like it's relevant anyway, it's hardly a challenging message.

I can only speak for myself and my experiences.

Despite being an atheist, I have close connections with a local church (well attended as it happens) and it's Minister and I can assure you that the anti-BNP message from the church has had a profound effect on the church goers at least.

 

[butchersapron]

Jesus wept

(but not for those that tell porkies)

 

[audiotech]

Jesus

Unlike you, I get out and talk to local people. I thought you'ld be pleased.

Why would I lie, particularly as it has opened me up to ridicule from the likes of you?

 

[butchersapron]

Pleased at yet another oh-so handy example you can provide us with that has a profound effect? Oh yes.

 

[audiotech]

Pleased at yet another oh-so handy example you can provide us with that has a profound effect? Oh yes.

To repeat:

Why would I lie, particularly as it has opened me up to ridicule from the likes of you?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Well, er, I can only say that your experience of church-goers in your area does not significantly affect my perception of the general influence of these statements.

Actually it's pissing me off a bit at the moment that so many people are promoting the idea that the alternative to the mainstream is... voting for the BNP. Given that there are the odd one or two other options. They're being portrayed as the official opposition. Nice one vicar.

 

[untethered]

It's good to see senior Anglican bishops taking the lead on this. But why stop with the BNP? I'm sure that parishioners and lapsed Christians across the country would welcome a more nuanced and wide-ranging exploration of the moral dimension of contemporary British politics.

 

[audiotech]

Well, er, I can only say that your experience of church-goers in your area does not significantly affect my perception of the general influence of these statements.

Actually it's pissing me off a bit at the moment that so many people are promoting the idea that the alternative to the mainstream is... voting for the BNP. Given that there are the odd one or two other options. They're being portrayed as the official opposition. Nice one vicar.

Sorry, I don't see how condemnation from the church turns into promoting?

The only people promoting the BNP as an alternative to the mainstream is the BNP themselves.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

No, the church is.

"The temptation to stay away or register a protest vote in order to send a negative signal to the parties represented at Westminster will be strong. In our view, however, it would be tragic if the understandable sense of anger and disillusionment with some MPs over recent revelations led voters to shun the ballot box.

...

"This is not a moment for voting in favour of any political party whose core ideology is about sowing division in our communities and hostility on grounds of race, creed or colour; it is an opportunity for renewing the vision of a community united by mutual respect, high ethical standards and the pursuit of justice and peace.

The clear implication is that your options are (a) stay away (b) register a protest vote by voting BNP or (c) vote for a Westminster party.

 

[audiotech]

No, the church is.

The clear implication is that your options are (a) stay away (b) register a protest vote by voting BNP or (c) vote for a Westminster party.

The temptation to stay away or register a protest vote in order to send a negative signal to the parties represented at Westminster.

The implication is not to shun the ballot box and vote, but not for the BNP out of protest, as that would be divisive.

I don't see how that necessarily means just voting for the main parties?

 

[durruti02]

Well, er, I can only say that your experience of church-goers in your area does not significantly affect my perception of the general influence of these statements.

Actually it's pissing me off a bit at the moment that so many people are promoting the idea that the alternative to the mainstream is... voting for the BNP. Given that there are the odd one or two other options. They're being portrayed as the official opposition. Nice one vicar.

yep good point .. doubt whether anyone who is thinking of voting bnp will be affected by this and it will wind up many .. williams was saying this week it was time to lay off the MPs!!!!

 

[DownwardDog]

sure, like that's going to stop people voting for the fash when all's said and done, in a country where barely anyone goes to church.

ffs

It's got nothing to do with any clerical disdain for fascism. After all, as Father Ted observed, fascism is dressing in black and telling people what to do whereas the church...

This is just the CoE pitching for the hearts, minds but especially the wallets of the immigrant community many of whom typically attend church with more enthusiasm and regularity than the natives who are more interested in Britains Got Talent and YouPorn.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

The implication is not to shun the ballot box and vote, but not for the BNP out of protest, as that would be divisive.

I don't see how that necessarily means just voting for the main parties?

Do they mention any other alternative?

Link to the statement here by the way: http://www.cofe.anglican.org/news/prabcaby.html

 

[durruti02]

Do they mention any other alternative?

Link to the statement here by the way: http://www.cofe.anglican.org/news/prabcaby.html

no they do not appear to .. what an opportunity what with the westnminister scandal .. they could have talked about community etc .. even urged a Green vote!! and as i said Williams was saying we should lay off the MPs ..

 

[FridgeMagnet]

no they do not appear to .. what an opportunity what with the westnminister scandal .. they could have talked about community etc .. even urged a Green vote!! and as i said Williams was saying we should lay off the MPs ..

They're part of the establishment and they're acting to preserve it. It's the same message that's coming out of a lot of avenues - "vote for any of us, we don't care, Labour, Tory, LibDem - just don't not vote, and don't protest vote because you wouldn't want the BNP would you?"

 

[audiotech]

Do they mention any other alternative?

Link to the statement here by the way: http://www.cofe.anglican.org/news/prabcaby.html

OK I accept your point about not mentioning an alternative after reading the full text, but a joint statement from the Archbishop of York and Archbishop of Canterbury was never going to talk about an alternative to vote for.

In fact they never mention, or talk about voting for any particular party. Just to vote and but not for the BNP.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

OK I accept your point about not mentioning an alternative after reading the full text, but a joint statement from the Archbishop of York and Archbishop of Canterbury was never going to talk about an alternative to vote for.

In fact they never mention, or talk about voting for any particular party. Just to vote and but not for the BNP.

They did talk about an alternative though - the BNP. They may have criticised that alternative but the statement still only mentions that as an alternative. The message is "vote, and don't protest vote" with the implication that protest votes would be for the BNP.

 

[audiotech]

They did talk about an alternative though - the BNP. They may have criticised that alternative but the statement still only mentions that as an alternative. The message is "vote, and don't protest vote" with the implication that protest votes would be for the BNP.

'Mainstream', 'alternative' - it's hard to keep up.

The temptation to stay away or register a protest vote..

I can see how that may read.

But the statement does go on to make points about it being "an opportunity for renewing the vision of a community united by mutual respect, high ethical standards and the pursuit of justice and peace."

And that there is a "hope that electors will use their vote on June 4th to renew the vision of a community united by the common good, public service and the pursuit of justice."

Now to me that can include progressives standing in the elections.

The message as I see it is don't shun the ballot box, but if you're going to go for a protest vote don't vote for the BNP.

 

[TAE]

Do they mention any other alternative?

Link to the statement here by the way: http://www.cofe.anglican.org/news/prabcaby.html

It seems the cruicial part of that statement is here:
"Christians have been deeply disturbed by the conscious adoption by the BNP of the language of our faith"

That is why the church is specifically distancing itself from the BNP.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I'm not quite sure what that refers to - except perhaps that hoax that the BNP had Jesus on posters etc, which a lot of people seem to have fallen for.

 

[audiotech]

I'm not quite sure what that refers to - except perhaps that hoax that the BNP had Jesus on posters etc, which a lot of people seem to have fallen for.

Dodgy picture with Barnbrook and assorted party hacks then?

There's also this to ponder.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Dodgy picture with Barnbrook and assorted party hacks then?

That's the hoax I was referring to.

 

[TAE]

They've been promoting themselves as 'chistian' for some time, but I think the emphasis is more on 'this is our cultural heritage' rather than 'we think Jesus is the jewish messiah'.

For example: http://barthsnotes.wordpress.com/2008/11/22/more-on-bnp-christianity/ and http://www.theasiannews.co.uk/news/s/512/512266_christian_bnp_target_asians.html