Birmingham councillor joins Respect
- Thread starter mutley
- Start date
Because gaining a councillor in Birmingham gives them a foothold in the area and legitimacy just prior to the May elections, and makes it much more likely that they'll gain more. And Birmingham councillors are pretty significant - much more so than in many areas of the country. They have something like 18,000 constituents each, for a start....
I'm not saying its a triumph of principle or anything, but in electoral terms its very interesting. This guy isn't a no-one - he got 20% of the vote in the 2005 GE.
Matt
I'm not saying its a triumph of principle or anything, but in electoral terms its very interesting. This guy isn't a no-one - he got 20% of the vote in the 2005 GE.
Matt
He's not up in May. I'm not sure exactly what's pissed him off about the council, but he said that Iraq was a major factor in him originally standing for the libs in 2004 (i think). He then said that he thought that every human being needs justice regardless of skin colour or religion, and that he thought Respect had stood for that most consistently in Brum. Which was nice.
rebel warrior
Soca Warrior
Great news - nice one Mutley.
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
BarryB said:
There is no question of him fleeing a reselection if that's what you are hinting at, he was one of the most secure councillors in Birmingham.
There was a major boundary review in Birmingham so all wards were up for election in 2004 for all three seats, with the top placed candidate serving for 4 years, 2nd for 3 years and 3rd for 2 years (there were no elections in 2005).
Talib Hussain topped the poll in his ward (Sparkbrook) as Lib Dem in 2004 (2 Lib Dem 1 Lab elected), on a high turnout (for local elections) and therefore serves office for the full four year period ie he is up for election in 2008.
He scored 2,845 well ahead of the second Lib Dem who won 2,428 and the 3rd placed Labour candidate on 2,127. The Greens and PJP stood one candidate apiece winning 839 and 568 respectively. The gap between candidates from the same parties indicate that there was significant cross-voting with Hussain gaining the most from other parties (most probably Labour, Greens and PJP).
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
Random said:
You are missing the impact that the Iraq war had on the muslim community. The Lib Dems were the only (English) party to oppose the war in parliament, so many in the muslim community (mistakenly) saw them as anti-war.
Even some ex-Labour supporters backed the LibDems because they saw their policies on tax and public spending as being to the left of Labour.
Obviously in many parts of the country the LibDems are the best placed people to defeat Labour.
The LibDems now back the occupation and have moved to the right on economic issues (backtracking on tax and post office privatisation since Campbell became leader). Nowhere is this more evident than in Birmingham - the largest council in the country which has a Tory administration with Lib Dem playing the role of cheer leader.
While some who were moving leftwards from Labour have decamped to the LibDems, as the LibDems now move to the right, Respect will become an increasingly clear pole of attraction. This is strongly the case in Birmingham and Sparkbrook in particular, where Salma Yaqoob has an impressive profile and achieved an outstanding result in the General Election. She also cannot be attacked with some of the opprobrium that Galloway has received.
As Matt says, this is significant, and increases the likelihood of Respect winning seats outright in Birmingham on May 4th, especially in the Sparkbrook and neighbouring areas.
No Councillor has defected from Respect to Lib Dems by the way, so this is not ping-pong. An ex-Labour Councillor in Tower Hamlets rejoined Labour after a very brief period in Respect, and a potential candidate has recently joined the LibDems; two Labour councillors and a LibDem leader joined Respect in Newham and a Labour councillor joined Respect in Preston last year. In Birmingham it was the PJP councillors who joined the LibDems, none of whom as far as I'm aware were Respect members.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Interesting turn of events and as said above this will help Respect reasonably well in the coming elections...Birmingham is going to be a very interesting battle ground come the next General Election.
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
Reminder of the results in the General Election less than 12 months ago:
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
treelover said:
Yes - the schools bill is more important
... because it proposes removing schools from LEA control
... and the largest LEA in the country is
... yes, Birmingham City Council
... where there is a hung council with a Tory-LibDem administration who were on opposite sides in the division ... little wonder that some LibDems (and Labour) people cannot stomach where their parties are taking them.
And before anyone asks, yes Galloway did vote against the Government on the schools' bill in parliament last night (twice)...
http://www.publications.parliament....cm060315/debtext/60315-38.htm#60315-38_div192
http://www.publications.parliament....cm060315/debtext/60315-39.htm#60315-39_div193
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
JHE said:
Maybe ... closing date for nominations is 3 april so I'm not sure when he would have to resign by. I'd guess that there isn't time to organise it and it is only for the two years left to serve, so there are difficulties.
But if Respect thought there was a better chance of winning two seats than one I'd be in favour of going for it, if the timing was right.
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
There's been a lot more interesting background about Talib Hussain in the pages of the local rag - the Birmingham Post/Evening Mail (I won't put all the links in, but you can find the stories at: http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/ and put Talib Hussain into the search window and select 'icbirmingham')
Now I don't always believe stuff I read in the local papers, but the story runs as follows:
May 2004 TH elected top of poll for LibDems in Sparkbrook ward and becomes the only cabinet member from an asian heritage
May 2005 TH stands in general election for LibDems in Sparkbrook & Small Heath constituency - raising their vote by 50%, from 13% to 20%; Salma Yaqoob as Respect candidate wins 27.5%.
Sept 2005 Lib Dems sack TH from the cabinet; among the claims against him in a 'dossier' were that he was not very good in council debates and various allegations of incompetence ... and that "he was too friendly with someone who was a Labour supporter" (!). Hussain claims the real reason is a) because he was asian and there is an undercurrent of racism in the LibDems b) because he cut the grant to the Bangladeshi Welfare Association and the chair of that group was another Lib Dem councillor - TH claims the group was not delivering and he wasn't prepared to put money in just because 'it looked good'. He accuses the LibDems of being prepared to put political expediency above principle in funding asian groups, especially in the run up to the Aston by-election.
Oct 2005 LibDem regional officials suspend Ladywood & Perry Barr local party because it has 'been infiltrated by asians'. TH is accused of recruiting 'scores' of members to the local party. TH denies this saying he has been singled out because he objected to the 'undemocratic' selection process in the Aston by-election (when the LibDems won all three seats from Labour). TH has resigned from Lib Dems and now sits as independent.
Mar 2006 TH joins Respect.
I think I've got it right but apologies if I've missed anything important.
Additionally you can find out that TH is a former actor who played the part of a villain in the James Bond 1983 film Octopussy! (though he's not listed by name on the credits in the International Movie Database - there is someone called "Talib Johnny").
Now I don't always believe stuff I read in the local papers, but the story runs as follows:
May 2004 TH elected top of poll for LibDems in Sparkbrook ward and becomes the only cabinet member from an asian heritage
May 2005 TH stands in general election for LibDems in Sparkbrook & Small Heath constituency - raising their vote by 50%, from 13% to 20%; Salma Yaqoob as Respect candidate wins 27.5%.
Sept 2005 Lib Dems sack TH from the cabinet; among the claims against him in a 'dossier' were that he was not very good in council debates and various allegations of incompetence ... and that "he was too friendly with someone who was a Labour supporter" (!). Hussain claims the real reason is a) because he was asian and there is an undercurrent of racism in the LibDems b) because he cut the grant to the Bangladeshi Welfare Association and the chair of that group was another Lib Dem councillor - TH claims the group was not delivering and he wasn't prepared to put money in just because 'it looked good'. He accuses the LibDems of being prepared to put political expediency above principle in funding asian groups, especially in the run up to the Aston by-election.
Oct 2005 LibDem regional officials suspend Ladywood & Perry Barr local party because it has 'been infiltrated by asians'. TH is accused of recruiting 'scores' of members to the local party. TH denies this saying he has been singled out because he objected to the 'undemocratic' selection process in the Aston by-election (when the LibDems won all three seats from Labour). TH has resigned from Lib Dems and now sits as independent.
Mar 2006 TH joins Respect.
I think I've got it right but apologies if I've missed anything important.
Additionally you can find out that TH is a former actor who played the part of a villain in the James Bond 1983 film Octopussy! (though he's not listed by name on the credits in the International Movie Database - there is someone called "Talib Johnny").
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
Isn't it really clear that in most cases when a sitting Labour or Lib Dem Councillor in England (and probably Wales) shifts allegiance to Respect, he or she is doing so to appeal to a Muslim electorate? I think this is the case and I think that to the extent that Muslim voters endorse this, its a sign that in some localities we're seeing a move to a communalist local politics, informed by religious and racial identity rather than ideology. Left and right has nothing to do with it. The trouble is that it will squeeze out non-racial parties and encourage those who might have been vaguely tempted to vote BNP to do so next time. If Respect seriously wants not to be the political wing of MAB, it needs to think hard about acepting Lib Dems and Labour turncoats so unthinkingly.
Of course I have no data to support this, so please come up with evidence to show me I'm wrong.
Of course I have no data to support this, so please come up with evidence to show me I'm wrong.
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
No wonder you aren't posting the links:
http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk...79165&method=full&siteid=50002-name_page.html
So, as a libdem cabinet member, the new "Respect" councillor presided over a 43 per cent spending cut in neighbouring Oscott ward.
The result? : "Young, elderly and vulnerable people will be cast adrift"
Will that be on the next RESPECT poster?
http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk...79165&method=full&siteid=50002-name_page.html
So, as a libdem cabinet member, the new "Respect" councillor presided over a 43 per cent spending cut in neighbouring Oscott ward.
The result? : "Young, elderly and vulnerable people will be cast adrift"
Will that be on the next RESPECT poster?
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Fullyplumped said:
Eh? You offer no evidence but wont consider your viewpoint unless someone else reaches a standard you wont adhere to?
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
No, I said what I think is the case. Just my opinion.Kid_Eternity said:Eh? You offer no evidence but wont consider your viewpoint unless someone else reaches a standard you wont adhere to?
I'm not knowledgeable about the facts on the ground, so I'm saying that I'm prepared to accept that I'm wrong if anyone can make that case. Think of me as the anti-tbaldwin!
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Fullyplumped said:No, I said what I think is the case. Just my opinion.
I'm not knowledgeable about the facts on the ground, so I'm saying that I'm prepared to accept that I'm wrong if anyone can make that case. Think of me as the anti-tbaldwin!
Anti-who?
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Fullyplumped said:
Oh. Him...
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
Anyway - back to my point. I was saying that the lib dem councillor defecting to Respect was a sign that English local politics are becoming communalised.If Respect is serious about resisting this it ought not to accept turncoats in situations like this.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
What do you mean by communalised and why is it a bad thing?
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
Maybe it's the wrong word. What I mean is that if Muslim Councillors move to Respect, and Respect aims its message full square at Muslims, and Muslim voters respond, then you end up with a Muslim Party. A party serving an apparent community of interest, in this case of religious identity. What follows is that other commnities of interest develop parties that appeal to them. Look at Northern Ireland to see how that works out.Kid_Eternity said:
Respect is going to have to do something about this if its serious about being anything except the MAB for election time.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
I think you are giving Respect far too much credit and expecting them to last long into the longterm!
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
Well I'm thinking about the localities like Birmingham and the bits of London where Respect are doing their thing. Personally, I think that Respect will become the political wing of MAB. The Trots will either give up or in some cases convert. But in the short and maybe medium term they will be a specifically Muslim party campaigning for local Sharia law and Muslim schools, and opportunistic Muslim councillors will join up to keep their seats. Bad enough, but it will lead to BNP success in response.Kid_Eternity said:
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