Bikers - please be careful out there

[mauvais]

Apart from it being illegal

I understand what you're saying, I've done it myself where a car has pulled out towards a bollard to block you. If there's no peds around, no way for someone to pull out on you and no oncoming traffic then fair enough. No illusions though. You are in the wrong and a copper seeing you do this will be after your ass as you weren't looking hard enough to even spot him. [Got caught once myself in south London by an M/C cop doing exactly this. Rather than ticket me he explained that he'd seen me pause, check around and indicate (obviously didn't check well enough) and that the danger was if I'd managed to miss a fuck off fluro BMW with him sitting on top of it on the other side of the road what else had I missed. I had to agree he was right

I'm not sure we're quite along the same lines, but I think you're right - I could probably be done for overtaking traffic on the wrong side of the road, and possibly even when staying on the left side of the line. I don't think, in practice, I would be if I was riding carefully. Peds are a bit more of a danger that I might have considered in this though.

 

[Orang Utan]

Fine - all about positioning. If you're at the front and still riding you can usually out-accelerate the first car, and in either case you clearly signal left and provided there's a gap you go across and get out of the way to repay the favour. Only a total bastard leaves you stuck in the middle of the road.

If you find you have to get inside because there's oncoming traffic, you can always squeeze into a gap - which you should look for before you do it in the first place, even if this means only skipping a few cars at a time.

That sounds way too risky to me. I prefer to stay to the left - I'm never in THAT much of a hurry

 

[mauvais]

Fair enough - just don't overtake on the left, as that's even more dangerous

 

[Orang Utan]

Fair enough - just don't overtake on the left, as that's even more dangerous

Is it? How so? I'd never do so with a bus, but I do with stationary cars.

 

[mauvais]

Piss poor visibility. Most cyclists killed in traffic get killed that way, crushed into railings or dragged under vehicles turning left. Buses, trucks and vans are the worst but it can happen anywhere.

If you squeeze past stopped traffic on a straight road with no turnings it's probably OK, but as you pointed out yourself, think about what happens when it moves again and where you'll be. In front of someone and visible on the right or to the side of someone and invisible on the left.

 

[Orang Utan]

Piss poor visibility. Most cyclists killed in traffic get killed that way, crushed into railings or dragged under vehicles turning left. Buses, trucks and vans are the worst but it can happen anywhere.

If you squeeze past stopped traffic on a straight road with no turnings it's probably OK, but as you pointed out yourself, think about what happens when it moves again and where you'll be. In front of someone and visible on the right or to the side of someone and invisible on the left.

I never overtake moving cars, left or right. I only do so with cars at traffic lights and I know the progression of the lights - a lorry or a bus, especially a bendy one, forget about it - it's better to be behind a vehicle than be under it.

 

[detective-boy]

because I'm not acting like a spoilt brat

Neither am I. If you don't like it, there's always the fucking ignore button.

 

[detective-boy]

I could probably be done for overtaking traffic on the wrong side of the road, and possibly even when staying on the left side of the line. I don't think, in practice, I would be if I was riding carefully.

There is nothing wrong with using any road no-one else is, provided you don't commit any general offence like driving / riding without due care and attention or reasonable consideration for others, or any specific offence like ignoring a "Pass Left" sign on a bollard or double white lines.

Filtering / overtaking stationary traffic IS risky. It is NOT illegal per se. It should be done at low speed because lots of other road users (pedestrians especially) do not expect things to be moving when other stuff has stopped (mainly due to being fucking stupid, but there we go!)

 

[Termite Man]

Neither am I. If you don't like it, there's always the fucking ignore button.

Well I would do but you post stuff like this

There is nothing wrong with using any road no-one else is, provided you don't commit any general offence like driving / riding without due care and attention or reasonable consideration for others, or any specific offence like ignoring a "Pass Left" sign on a bollard or double white lines.

Filtering / overtaking stationary traffic IS risky. It is NOT illegal per se. It should be done at low speed because lots of other road users (pedestrians especially) do not expect things to be moving when other stuff has stopped (mainly due to being fucking stupid, but there we go!)

which is informative and worth reading .
I realise not everyone is perfect and you can't and shouldn't be expected to only post the informative stuff . The problem is you have ignored the fact that people including cyclists are more than willing to accept that cyclists can cause accidents or contribute to them , and you have then taken that belief from one thread and just thrown it in another .
I've pointed out that you've done that and been told that I should piss off ( because thats what I told you to do when maybe I shouldn't ) and that I should just ignore you and let you get away with incorrect posts , since your always correcting people when they quote the law incorrectly I feel it's only fair that people can correct you when you are incorrect !

 

[Radar]

I'm not sure we're quite along the same lines, but I think you're right - I could probably be done for overtaking traffic on the wrong side of the road, and possibly even when staying on the left side of the line. I don't think, in practice, I would be if I was riding carefully. Peds are a bit more of a danger that I might have considered in this though.

We're not. I thought you were talking about taking detours to the right around central "keep left" bollards/traffic islands. @me!

I see your point though. At least on a motorbike you can keep up with the buggers, on a push bike once the traffic gets up to speed and you're still to the right of everyone then you're pretty much stranded. At least we can make gaps by accelerating into openings, which I suppose isn't possible for cyclists once the traffic is moving above a certain speed.

The visibility thing is also spot on, and is one of the problems mixing two and four wheelers. Two wheelers have sod-all blind spots if you actually use your neck and mirrors, the same can't be said for anything bigger. Many riders don't drive anything else and don't appreciate how hard it is to see someone else from inside a car, especially when close in on a diagonal. Conversely if a driver doesn't ride then he probably won't be checking his blindspots that much too.

If cyclists/bikers aren't where they can be reasonably expected to be, what chance have they got to be seen by a commute numbed motorist when they pop out from a blind spot.

 

[Orang Utan]

I sometimes feel I need to learn how to drive to become a better rider, so it's seems vice versa applies

 

[Orang Utan]

If cyclists/bikers aren't where they can be reasonably expected to be, what chance have they got to be seen by a commute numbed motorist when they pop out from a blind spot.

Aren't cyclists expected to come from the left though, rather from the right in moving traffic that a cyclist would have trouble keeping up with?

 

[rutabowa]

i am in delhi at the moment, there are no lanes or road rules everyone just goes as fast as they can and fits in to every space possible but the important thing is everyone does their horn all the time, it seems to work. and all the motorbikes and bikes just go wherever too, i think everyone has exellent road awareness.

 

[Radar]

Aren't cyclists expected to come from the left though, rather from the right in moving traffic that a cyclist would have trouble keeping up with?

That's where I expect to see them anyhow

Seeing cyclists along the centre-line a) gives me the willies (it looks well vulnerable) and b) annoying, you in 'our' lane and blocking us Because it's not normal road positioning for a push-bike, I assume anyone I see in the middle of the road is either about to make a right turn ( so I can't risk an overtake), stranded and looking to get back left (so I can't undertake either) or a noob (give them as wide a berth as possible)

 

[Radar]

i am in delhi at the moment, there are no lanes or road rules everyone just goes as fast as they can and fits in to every space possible but the important thing is everyone does their horn all the time, it seems to work. and all the motorbikes and bikes just go wherever too, i think everyone has exellent road awareness.

Doesn't that just descend into "might is right" ?? ie the biggest and crappiest vehicle has right of way ?

There's no fucking way I'd ride a two wheeler in India, hell Paris was bad enough

 

[Orang Utan]

That's where I expect to see them anyhow

Seeing cyclists along the centre-line a) gives me the willies (it looks well vulnerable) and b) annoying, you in 'our' lane and blocking us Because it's not normal road positioning for a push-bike, I assume anyone I see in the middle of the road is either about to make a right turn ( so I can't risk an overtake), stranded and looking to get back left (so I can't undertake either) or a noob (give them as wide a berth as possible)

Which is why I stay to the left!

 

[rutabowa]

Doesn't that just descend into "might is right" ?? ie the biggest and crappiest vehicle has right of way ?

There's no fucking way I'd ride a two wheeler in India, hell Paris was bad enough

no it seems like evryone is equal, bikes are best really cos they fit in to narrower spaces. noone seems to get angry either because everyone is just as pushy as possible all the time and expects everyone else to be, i have not seen any accidents tho i have felt sick with worry at first.

 

[Orang Utan]

I bet you a ton there are more fatal accidents per capita in Delhi than there are in London

 

[Juice Terry]

More people are killed on Indian roads per capita than anywhere else on the planet. It is carnage out there. The only mystery to me is how there aren't more accidents.

There is no equality at all, might is right, on a bike if you don't get out the way, buses. trucks and cars would just drive straight over the top of you.

 

[rutabowa]

There is no equality at all, might is right, on a bike if you don't get out the way, buses. trucks and cars would just drive straight over the top of you.

nah they just make it look like they would, actually they stop just a centimetre before if the bike/scooter/elderly woman is still in the way. it's like a game of chicken. most accidents apparently are on the open road when there's not as much traffic. i'm going to catch a ride home on the back of a scooter tomorrow.

(ps i am only talking about delhi rush hour i don't know about anything else)

 

[Orang Utan]

RIP Rutabowa

 

[rutabowa]

i'm not really, i got terrified on the back of a scooter going at 5 mph on an empty road in london.

 

[Brainaddict]

Fair enough - just don't overtake on the left, as that's even more dangerous

Do you cycle in London? - I don't think that's realistic advice here. A large proportion of traffic is stationary and a large proportion of roads are too narrow for overtaking on the outside. You pretty much have to go up traffic queues on the left.

 

[mauvais]

Do you cycle in London? - I don't think that's realistic advice here. A large proportion of traffic is stationary and a large proportion of roads are too narrow for overtaking on the outside. You pretty much have to go up traffic queues on the left.

No, but in a city. I do overtake on the left sometimes, but don't fool yourself into thinking it's safe because it isn't.

 

[Juice Terry]

nah they just make it look like they would, actually they stop just a centimetre before if the bike/scooter/elderly woman is still in the way. it's like a game of chicken. most accidents apparently are on the open road when there's not as much traffic. i'm going to catch a ride home on the back of a scooter tomorrow.

(ps i am only talking about delhi rush hour i don't know about anything else)

Delhi rush hour is only safe cos its so crowded you can only do 2mph.

You can usually get the cars to back off by acting like a mad biker but play chicken with a 10 ton Tata truck overtaking on the wrong side and you'll get crushed, they seriously do not give a shit. It's a simple choice I've made several times, ride off the road into the ditch or die.

 

[detective-boy]

The problem is you have ignored the fact that people including cyclists are more than willing to accept that cyclists can cause accidents or contribute to them , and you have then taken that belief from one thread and just thrown it in another .

No. I haven't. I have ONLY had a go at the posters who see no wrong whatsoever on the part of the cyclist going through the red light. I have not criticised those who take a balanced view. Go back and read the threads and you will see that.

 

[detective-boy]

... it seems to work.

I'm not totally convinced that the statistics would bear that out!

 

[mauvais]

Reaffirming my long running theory that merely browsing the U75 transport forum makes you significantly safer... half the way home today was overtaking traffic due to roadworks everywhere - and I was definitely thinking about this a lot more. I planned what I was doing much more carefully and generally gave it a bit more patience. Incidentally I noticed plenty of drivers moving left which I much appreciated! A reet good day art ont' road!

 

[Termite Man]

No. I haven't. I have ONLY had a go at the posters who see no wrong whatsoever on the part of the cyclist going through the red light. I have not criticised those who take a balanced view. Go back and read the threads and you will see that.

Thats not the impression I got from your first post on this thread though . Anyway if I have got the wrong impression then I'm sorry , the thing is I think your right and if you were acting like I think you were acting then it damages the good argument you were making .

 

[Brainaddict]

I made a bad cycling error today. It resulted from going up the left hand side of a bus...