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Biker war in Waco, TX...9 dead so far

Dowie said:
I didn't say they hadn't.... without wanting to repeat myself my point was that people don't tend to die instantly from being shot - unless all three of those in the picture were unlucky enough to have been shot in the head or heart then they'd have been there bleeding out for a few minutes. What I was assuming has happened is the police have left them, not bothered treating them and then when the paramedics arrive on scene later there is nothing they can do.
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Unless they are shot in the head or upper chest and are still alive after 5 minutes they can probably be saved by prompt first aid treatment.
Though you have to know what you are doing and have stuff on you. UK armed police have a big bag of trauma gear to treat people they shoot I don't think us police do.
Anyway unless someone was prepared to drag the wounded into cover while the shootout was going on to start treatment they would have bled to death.
As a surgeon pointed out you were safer getting shot in afgan then being stabbed in pompey as you had guys who would treat you and get you out.
While you would be lucky if someone phoned an ambulance for you in pompey. First aid training should be compulsory for everyone.
 
Saw a tweet off Lobster magazine saying it must be significant that's it's the "eve of the 22nd anniversary" of the Branch Davidian thing, I can only presume they're taking the piss.
 
dylanredefined said:
Unless they are shot in the head or upper chest and are still alive after 5 minutes they can probably be saved by prompt first aid treatment.
Though you have to know what you are doing and have stuff on you. UK armed police have a big bag of trauma gear to treat people they shoot I don't think us police do.
Anyway unless someone was prepared to drag the wounded into cover while the shootout was going on to start treatment they would have bled to death.
As a surgeon pointed out you were safer getting shot in afgan then being stabbed in pompey as you had guys who would treat you and get you out.
While you would be lucky if someone phoned an ambulance for you in pompey. First aid training should be compulsory for everyone.
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well yes frankly anyone who carries a firearm for law enforcement ought to be trained in how to treat the resulting wounds it can cause

though in this case they had a swat team already at the event in anticipation of trouble, they of all people ought to have advanced training in first aid

it just really bothers me when you see various bits of footage of police in the US shooting people and then not immediately rushing to try to help that person
 
Dowie said:
I didn't say they hadn't.... without wanting to repeat myself my point was that people don't tend to die instantly from being shot - unless all three of those in the picture were unlucky enough to have been shot in the head or heart then they'd have been there bleeding out for a few minutes at least. It just looked like the police have left them and by the time the paramedics arrived on scene it was too late.
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I read Homicide Life on Streets, by David Simon. And often police would say "Nah he was 10-7" when we got here (10-7 is police code for vehicle out of service)

As to the guys lying out on the ground, I imagine the Paramedic of a small Texas down would quickly be overwhelmed by such mass violence, and had to make some particularly gruesome fast decisions over who to prioritise. Multiple gunshot triage training would kick in, and US paramedics training is scoop and go so they probably prioritised it into this order, A) critical, B) walking wounded C) no hopers. Get the critical into hospital so they'd have a chance, grabbing someone who wasn't going to make it taking them to hospital and tying up doctors and nurses on a hopeless case could have left three or more critials dying.
 
Dowie said:
So don't pound the chest then... if you're dealing with a sucking chest wound then you use a chest seal or you create a makeshift one with the wrapper the bandage came in and some tape... then you ensure you stuff a bunch of dressings/bandages around the exit wound too... I'm not seeing any dressings at all yet they've clearly been shot. Yes they might be in a complete state but you should at least make an attempt to save them regardless of who they are or what they did prior to being shot.

The British Army treats Taliban/Iraqi insurgents better than the US Police treat their own citizens it seems...
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I wouldn't be too sure of that.
 
beesonthewhatnow said:
As it's Texas it will almost certainly involve smaller gangs in a territory dispute with The Bandidos.
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Seems like it was mainly between the Bandidos & the Cossacks with a bit of The Leathernecks, Veterans & Scimitars thrown in the mix.

From the IBT

Edit to add Twin Peaks is a breastaurant!

The gunfire first broke out inside the Twin Peaks "breastaurant" (known for its bikini clad waitresses) in Waco before spilling out into the car park.
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Dowie said:
well yes frankly anyone who carries a firearm for law enforcement ought to be trained in how to treat the resulting wounds it can cause

though in this case they had a swat team already at the event in anticipation of trouble, they of all people ought to have advanced training in first aid

it just really bothers me when you see various bits of footage of police in the US shooting people and then not immediately rushing to try to help that person
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I think if we're learnt anything in the past year about the US police is that there is a correlation between the level of violence they feel they need to "control the situation" and the skin tone of the people at the end of the cops gun barrels.

Reports are that there are currently 170 bikers under arrest, I imagine the casualties would be in the double digits if these were four african american gangs, and the police got into it.
 
I've seen video of US cops handcuffing people after they've shot them - I don't think first aid is very high up their list of priorities.
 
jakethesnake said:
I've seen video of US cops handcuffing people after they've shot them - I don't think first aid is very high up their list of priorities.
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Not to mention their habit of handcuffing female prisoners who go into labour to their gurnies (cause when the contractions are 4 minutes apart you are in mood to run anywhere)
 
If only more Capitalists could have street shootouts with each other. We could turn it into some post apocalyptic game show.
 
treelover said:
I wouldn't be too sure of that.
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well they normally get first aid after being shot, there are plenty of videos online where the US police don't seem too fussed about it to the point where it probably isn't a huge issue for them - so in that respect I'd stick with my previous statement
 
What tenuous connection are they making between the branch davidions and biker gangs?
 
MrSki said:
Seems like it was mainly between the Bandidos & the Cossacks with a bit of The Leathernecks, Veterans & Scimitars thrown in the mix.

From the IBT

Edit to add Twin Peaks is a breastaurant!
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Oh I get it twin peaks. Fucks sake no wonder it was popular with biker gangs.
 
The Police don't seem to be at all happy with that restaurant, seems they wanted them to prevent the meeting from even taking place to begin with, then when the restaurant refused to bow to their demands the police made sure they had a presence there.... on one hand it is probably a good thing the police were already there - on the other hand were cops/undercover cops agitating things? And I wonder how many of the 9 dead were shot by police rather than other bikers. I wonder if they have CCTV.
 
8den said:
I think if we're learnt anything in the past year about the US police is that there is a correlation between the level of violence they feel they need to "control the situation" and the skin tone of the people at the end of the cops gun barrels.

Reports are that there are currently 170 bikers under arrest, I imagine the casualties would be in the double digits if these were four african american gangs, and the police got into it.
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AFAIK police are not exactly big fans of biker gangs either, though I would assume that yes African American gangs would face even more police harassment... however once an extreme incident like this occurs and the shooting starts, I'm not so sure it matters anymore.
 
MrSki said:
Seems like it was mainly between the Bandidos & the Cossacks with a bit of The Leathernecks, Veterans & Scimitars thrown in the mix.

From the IBT

Edit to add Twin Peaks is a breastaurant!
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Not just a breastaurant, the fastest growing chain in America.
 
Quite. Round about the time of the one of the shootings late last year
there was video of a man walking up and down the middle of a us street waving a rifle. After a long stand off he was subdued and arrested unarmed. He was, obviously, white.

In this instance considering how heavily armed everyone was and the size of the gangs its a minor miracle that the death toil is just 9.
 
Dowie said:
The Police don't seem to be at all happy with that restaurant, seems they wanted them to prevent the meeting from even taking place to begin with, then when the restaurant refused to bow to their demands the police made sure they had a presence there.... on one hand it is probably a good thing the police were already there - on the other hand were cops/undercover cops agitating things? And I wonder how many of the 9 dead were shot by police rather than other bikers. I wonder if they have CCTV.
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The parent company pulled their franchise:

NEW YORK: The Indian Americans-owned company Chalak Mitra Group (CMG), based in Dallas, Texas, has lost its franchise of Twin Peaks restaurant in Waco, Texas, where a deadly fight between biker gangs Bandidos and Cossacks on Sunday turned into a bloodbath, spilling from the restaurant premises to the parking lot outside, and thereafter into a bloody tussle with law enforcement officials. The warfare left at least 9 people dead, scores injured and resulted in 170 people arrested.

CMG may face several other charges as the police investigation continues. Reports suggest the management of the CMG which was running the Twin Peaks restaurant were aware of the threat from biker gangs which converged there often, but did not pay heed to the warnings of impending fight, including from law enforcement officials. On Sunday, the gangs had met there specifically to discuss recruitment and turf violations. At the end of the deadly melee, more than 100 weapons were confiscated.

The Dallas Morning News broke the news of the restaurant severing its ties with the CMG, which was running the franchise since August 11, 2014. CMG also runs the Genghis Grill chain. Both Twin Peaks and Genghis Grill are two of the fastest growing chains in the nation.
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http://www.americanbazaaronline.com...biker-gang-war-leaves-9-people-dead-in-texas/

It basically means they're out of business permanently. Although that was probably a done deal when the first gun was pulled.
 
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The police didnt like the idea of the meet and put a huge for the town armed presence in to attempt to stop anything bloody stupid happening most people domt start a fight if there are coppers with assualt rifles standing about :facepalm:
 
Yuwipi Woman said:
The parent company pulled their franchise:



http://www.americanbazaaronline.com...biker-gang-war-leaves-9-people-dead-in-texas/

It basically means they're out of business permanently. Although that was probably a done deal when the first gun was pulled.
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And All this occurred in Texas. Home of the open carry law and the open carry movement



2nd amendment nutters who feel it's the constitutional right to walk around with firearms and stage protests in restaurants.
 
Cops are saying more bikers may be headed to Waco to attack cops. If so, there will be a lot more dead bikers.
Of immediate concern to authorities has been the prospect for more violence here, as other motorcycle gang members have been rumored to be headed to Waco in response to the clash.

Swanton said law enforcement agencies began receiving intelligence reports Sunday night that a "green light" had been put out on officers in uniforms by several of the gangs.

"We are on high alert," Swanton said. "We encourage those individuals not to bring criminal activity to Waco, but let it be know, if they do, we are ready."
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http://www.chron.com/news/houston-t...ests-announced-in-Waco-Twin-Peaks-6270189.php
 
8den said:
And All this occurred in Texas. Home of the open carry law and the open carry movement 2nd amendment nutters who feel it's the constitutional right to walk around with firearms and stage protests in restaurants.
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Yes, but restaurant owners still have the right to turn them away if they want. Considering Texas's history of restaurant shootings, I'd be leery of allowing guns in any place I ran. I wouldn't want to be the next Luby's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby's_shooting
 
I think thats the video I saw, someone from the open carry movement wandered into a Chilis with a sidearm visible and was refused service so his mates turned up to stage a protest (because nothing says peaceful protest than 12 guys wearing modified assault rifles).
 
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