Bike bells..

[Orang Utan]

Maybe you are demonstrating exactly the same sort of selfishness & lack of consideration for anyone else that I'd suggest is a significant contributor to so many accidents today?

Not at all, I'm a considerate and law-abiding road user - unless there are some bizarre by-laws in The Highway Code, I don't think that I'm doing anything that endangers anyone else.

 

[Orang Utan]

For the pedestrians and The Highway code:



Is that law like the Bells then ?

Is that guidance or law?

 

[pogofish]

Is that law like the Bells then ?

It could well go against you if it was considered a relavent factor in any accident.

Or would be used to assign a share in the responsability that could lessen any sentence or reduce any insurance award.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

Not at all, I'm a considerate and law-abiding road user - unless there are some bizarre by-laws in The Highway Code, I don't think that I'm doing anything that endangers anyone else.

whether there are bizarre by-laws is beside the point. personally, I find bike bells far less useful than a good shout at a passing pedestrian, but it won't work in court.

 

[pogofish]

unless there are some bizarre by-laws in The Highway Code,

Actually, it is one bit of law that is reasonably free of craziness.

 

[Orang Utan]

So if I use my common sense, I'm not likely to get in trouble with the law?

 

[guinnessdrinker]

So if I use my common sense, I'm not likely to get in trouble with the law?

common sense and the law are two different things...

 

[pogofish]

So if I use my common sense, I'm not likely to get in trouble with the law?

Probably not but it is unwise to be unaware these days. You have probably spent as much time arguing about it as it would take you to read even the cyclists bit - so its not exactly an onerous chore.

 

[fen_boy]

Nice how almost every other cyclist seems to have their own good reason to be exempt from the rules & responsabilities that the rest of us have to comply with. Quite a lot in common with brain-out car drivers there too.

Oooh get her!
As far as I am aware there is no law that states that bicycles have to have bells on so you can stick that one right up your arse

 

[Kanda]

You seem to be putting all the resposibility on the cyclist and indicating that pedestrians have no responsibility to other road users.

 

[Orang Utan]

Probably not but it is unwise to be unaware these days. You have probably spent as much time arguing about it as it would take you to read even the cyclists bit - so its not exactly an onerous chore.

Of course, I'm just passing the time, but think it's a bit dodgy that the first time I've heard of cyclists being 'required' to read the Highway Code is on a message board - perhaps bike shops should supply a copy to everyone who buys a bike.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

Oooh get her!
As far as I am aware there is no law that states that bicycles have to have bells on so you can stick that one right up your arse

according to sunday newspapers, the law may change on that point.

 

[fen_boy]

according to sunday newspapers, the law may change on that point.

I didn't know that.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

I didn't know that.

it could have been newspapers. some were blaming europe, of course .

 

[Kanda]

They are trying to close this loophole when the harmonised cycle construction standards are introduced across all 25 EU states in the Autumn.

Requoted what I posted earlier...

 

[pogofish]

You seem to be putting all the resposibility on the cyclist and indicating that pedestrians have no responsibility to other road users.

It is indeed true that pedestrians have the least responsability to other road users. That says quite a lot about the history of transport law & rights of way in this country. The legal assumptions are also such that we would have a harder time proving that a pedestrian was wholly or partly responsable for any accident & bugger-all chance of getting anything from them if they caused us to have an accident whilst avoiding them.

Its pretty-much like it or lump it.

 

[Spion]

according to sunday newspapers, the law may change on that point.

good. round here the main walker/cyclist point of interaction is a canal towpath. most cyclists seem to think that walkers will hear or in some other way sense their approach from behind. they should all have bells and use em

 

[lighterthief]

Article here.

 

[pogofish]

Oooh get her!
As far as I am aware there is no law that states that bicycles have to have bells on so you can stick that one right up your arse

So we'll file you alongside the boy-racers, speed-merchants, wreck-drivers & pissheads then? They always seem to think themselves blessed with a good-enough reason to do what they want regardless of anyone else.

 

[Kanda]

It is indeed true that pedestrians have the least responsability to other road users. That says quite a lot about the history of transport law & rights of way in this country. The legal assumptions are also such that we would have a harder time proving that a pedestrian was wholly or partly responsable for any accident & bugger-all chance of getting anything from them if they caused us to have an accident whilst avoiding them.

Its pretty-much like it or lump it.

Can you not see that that is ridiculous in a *considerate biker* + Non-green x code pedestrian are involved in a clash?

The main problem I have experienced in the few weeks I have been cycling is people stepping into the road to *overtake* other pedestrians or people generally just stepping out in front of me as I am riding along.

 

[pogofish]

Can you not see that that is ridiculous in a *considerate biker* + Non-green x code pedestrian are involved in a clash?

I know it is but as things stand, that is what you have to put-up with if you want to use the roads here.

 

[Kanda]

More from the pedestrian section of the Highway Code....

7: The Green Cross Code. The advice given below on crossing the road is for all pedestrians. Children should be taught the Code and should not be allowed out alone until they can understand and use it properly. The age when they can do this is different for each child. Many children cannot judge how fast vehicles are going or how far away they are. Children learn by example, so parents and carers should always use the Code in full when out with their children. They are responsible for deciding at what age children can use it safely by themselves.

a. First find a safe place to cross. It is safer to cross using a subway, a footbridge, an island, a zebra, pelican, toucan or puffin crossing, or where there is a crossing point controlled by a police officer, a school crossing patrol or a traffic warden. Where there is a crossing nearby, use it. Otherwise choose a place where you can see clearly in all directions. Try to avoid crossing between parked cars (see Rule 14) and on blind bends and brows of hills. Move to a space where drivers can see you clearly.
Picture of children's feet standing on the kerb

b. Stop just before you get to the kerb, where you can see if anything is coming. Do not get too close to the traffic. If there is no pavement, keep back from the edge of the road but make sure you can still see approaching traffic.

c. Look all around for traffic and listen. Traffic could come from any direction. Listen as well, because you can sometimes hear traffic before you see it.

d. If traffic is coming, let it pass. Look all around again and listen. Do not cross until there is a safe gap in the traffic and you are certain that there is plenty of time. Remember, even if traffic is a long way off, it may be approaching very quickly.

e. When it is safe, go straight across the road - do not run. Keep looking and listening for traffic while you cross, in case there is any traffic you did not see, or in case other traffic appears suddenly.

Yet the cyclists are demonised... /sigh

(Yes I am aware that there are some asshole cyclists)

 

[Orang Utan]

So we'll file you alongside the boy-racers, speed-merchants, wreck-drivers & pissheads then? They always seem to think themselves blessed with a good-enough reason to do what they want regardless of anyone else.

But you haven't addressed the fact that a bell simply isn't as effective as a shout or a LALALA to warn a pedestrian of your approach.
A bell is only helpful if you are coming out of a tunnel with a cycle lane (I'm thinking of the one in Vauxhall Cross) to warn other approaching cyclists that you're coming out of it - you should be going at almost walking pace when coming out of a tunnel anyway, otherwise you are a fool.

 

[pogofish]

There are plenty of occasions hwere even a foghorn won't get someone's attention - deafness (whole or partial) for one, or just plain innatention. Also, plenty of us are not blessed with the vocal projection of a sargeant major, so wouldn't be likley to be heard anyway. You can't legislate for everything.

 

[lighterthief]

But you haven't addressed the fact that a bell simply isn't as effective as a shout or a LALALA to warn a pedestrian of your approach.
A bell is only helpful if you are coming out of a tunnel with a cycle lane...

What nonsense. A bell is fine for letting people know you are coming, and a darn sight more polite than shouting at them from behind. The noise is also very distinctive and easily heard. Not to mention that shouting LALALA as you cycle along makes you look really cool.

 

[Kanda]

There are plenty of occasions hwere even a foghorn won't get someone's attention - Ipods for one, or just plain innatention. Also, plenty of us are not blessed with the vocal projection of a sargeant major, so wouldn't be likley to be heard anyway. You can't legislate for everything.

Corrected

 

[Orang Utan]

What nonsense. A bell is fine for letting people know you are coming, and a darn sight more polite than shouting at them from behind. The noise is also very distinctive and easily heard. Not to mention that shouting LALALA as you cycle along makes you look really cool.

In my experience most people are completely oblivious to the sound of a puny little ting ting ting. Shouting LALALA makes you look a tit, but it gets people's attention more than a bell does.

 

[Orang Utan]

And anyway, there's no time for politeness if a fool needs to be warned that he's gonna get knocked into if he doesn't watch out

 

[fen_boy]

So we'll file you alongside the boy-racers, speed-merchants, wreck-drivers & pissheads then? They always seem to think themselves blessed with a good-enough reason to do what they want regardless of anyone else.

Do what you like - I know I am a responsible cyclist that follows traffic laws and I also know that having a bell, which I remind you is not currently a legal requirement, will not change a bad cyclist into a good one.
But don't let any of that get in the way of your idiotic prejudice against cyclists will you

 

[Cobbles]

Read in the Metro today that they want to introduce fines for cyckists that don't ring their bells around pedestrians, up to £2500!!!!

Fucks sake... what a ridiculous notion. Surely if pedestrians stuck to crossings (jaywalking law??) they wouldn't be hit by cyclists not expecting people to launch themselves in front of them...

I'm interested that the latest safety TV advert featuries a load of kids pratting about with their mobiles and then one of them seeming to walk straight into the path of a car.

At long last - a message that recognises that the vast majority of pedestrian accidents are caused by - PEDESTRIANS.