Best Miles Davis "fusion" album?

[danny la rouge]

I'm not sure I would agree - although I suspect the critical term here is 'fusion'. 'Sketches Of Spain' might be regarded as an attempt to translate (or fuse) music from the 'Classical' tradition to a particular modality of Jazz, which likely speaks more of the contemporary power dynamic at play (including cultural valuation).

Sure. But "fusion" is generally taken as a synonym for "jazz rock fusion", and in the context of Miles is understood to be the funk infected period from the late sixties to mid seventies. And the OP gives that context in any case.

I'd argue that "jazz classical fusion" is not really a term that took off. These days Third Stream would be the term used instead. Sketches is a Third Stream album and belongs to Miles' period of collaborating with Gil Evans. By the time of the period this thread is discussing Miles has already been through that era and then through the Second Great Quintet period of "free bop" (or "time no changes") approach to modal improvising. The Fusion period grew out of that era.

 

[Beats & Pieces]

Sure. But "fusion" is generally taken as a synonym for "jazz rock fusion", and in the context of Miles is understood to be the funk infected period from the late sixties to mid seventies. And the OP gives that context in any case.

I'd argue that "jazz classical fusion" is not really a term that took off. These days Third Stream would be the term used instead. Sketches is a Third Stream album and belongs to Miles' period of collaborating with Gil Evans. By the time of the period this thread is discussing Miles has already been through that era and then through the Second Great Quintet period of "free bop" (or "time no changes") approach to modal improvising. The Fusion period grew out of that era.

Now that is an interesting point - is there a particular point at which Jazz (in all the modalities of potential expression) fully left behind any attempt to reference (critically or otherwise) the largely European 'Classical' tradition. The issue here is not that it was 'named' - rather that it was attempted - and Gil Evan's involvement was undoubtedly crucial in this regard.

 

[danny la rouge]

Now that is an interesting point - is there a particular point at which Jazz (in all the modalities of potential expression) fully left behind any attempt to reference (critically or otherwise) the largely European 'Classical' tradition. The issue here is not that it was 'named' - rather that it was attempted - and Gil Evan's involvement was undoubtedly crucial in this regard.

No, I think jazz has always in one way or another referenced "classical" music. At some points this has been beneficial, but I think currently it's too much in thrall to the trying-to-be-taken-seriously-by-the-music-schools-establishment-as-serious-artists crowd (in which I include not just Wynton Marsalis, but the salon sensibilities of many jazz performers). That's why I welcome Kamasi Washington. I don't think the Epic was in its entirety successful, but jazz needed it.

But right from the start, jazz had a relationship with classical music. Louis Armstrong listened to Bartok. Bix incorporated Debussy. Stravinsky went to see Charlie Parker, and wrote for Woody Herman. Trane's Giant Steps chord changes (the "Trane Matrix") explores logical ideas that classical music was coming to at around the same time.

Even in the deepest grooves of his funkiest period, Miles was copping licks from Stockhausen.

The cross pollination is a good thing.

 

[Beats & Pieces]

No, I think jazz has always in one way or another referenced "classical" music. At some points this has been beneficial, but I think currently it's too much in thrall to the trying-to-be-taken-seriously-by-the-music-schools-establishment-as-serious-artists crowd (in which I include not just Wynton Marsalis, but the salon sensibilities of many jazz performers). That's why I welcome Kamasi Washington. I don't think the Epic was in its entirety successful, but jazz needed it.

But right from the start, jazz had a relationship with classical music. Louis Armstrong listened to Bartok. Bix incorporated Debussy. Stravinsky went to see Charlie Parker, and wrote for Woody Herman. Trane's Giant Steps chord changes (the "Trane Matrix") explores logical ideas that classical music was coming to at around the same time.

Even in the deepest grooves of his funkiest period, Miles was copping licks from Stockhausen.

The cross pollination is a good thing.

I'm not a fan of Wynton - if he had his way Jazz would be restricted to being little more than a museum piece - seen to be encapsulating a transcendental experience of 'blackness' whilst being defined by a very specific period of time - moreover such a construction would be deemed outside any possible criticism.

Kamasi Washington - I completely agree - although his last project didn't always work I applaud the fact he was prepared to make a musical statement (over 3 CDs).

 

[realitybites]

Can't get enough of Miles Davies 'sketches of Spain' these days..

 

[ska invita]

From the Gil Evans days the Porgy & Bess record is the one that does it for me, that bit above Sketches... 100% masterpiece in my book

 

[Beats & Pieces]

From the Gil Evans days the Porgy & Bess record is the one that does it for me, that bit above Sketches... 100% masterpiece in my book

No. Seriously. Just one listen and comparison to the original 'Concierto De Aranjuez' and you realise just how stupid the attempt was.

 

[strummerville]

In a Silent Way is one of the best Miles albums ever. John McGaughlin thrown straight in to the sessions with barely a word of hello.

 

[Idris2002]

In a Silent Way is one of the best Miles albums ever. John McGaughlin thrown straight in to the sessions with barely a word of hello.

This is probably my favourite of the albums in the poll - but if Miles in the Sky counts as fusion (it would, wouldn't it?) I'd go for that as my favourite from that era.

 

[Red Cat]

No. Seriously. Just one listen and comparison to the original 'Concierto De Aranjuez' and you realise just how stupid the attempt was.

No. Seriously. I love Sketches of Spain.

 

[ska invita]

About a month ago I managed to pick up a bunch of these records for £1 each on CD...Bitches Brew, Live Evil, Dark Magus, Agharta, On the Corner, and In Concert (1973 at Philarmonic Hall NYC)...I wasnt ready for these records when i was younger, but i cant stop playing them...Ive had to do a bit of driving this month and theyre great driving music...head down into the horizon.... have to play them in private though

Agree with Danny that there's not much between them...they're all great....I haven't had a chance to read the liner notes, and unpick whats really going on....its more structured than at first appears I think.

one little note I did read on one of the liners was that Miles was really gunning for getting Hendrix to play with him...but he died (in 1970)....there's some great psychrock playing, John Mclaughlin perhaps the best known of the different guitarists who have featured, and they all have their own sound ... but I cant help imaging how these records might have sounded with Jimi on them!

Miles playing through effects pedals sounds really great, but I really like it when all hell's going on and then he comes in clean and clear and it all seems to make sense in a way it didn't a few seconds earlier.... sometimes its like being on a bad trip and then someone taking you by the hand and making it all okay again!

Ive tried pretending this wasn't by miles davis...that it was Teepee Henderson and the Bjornson Brothers Band (big rivals of Yurt's of course )...and would i like it as much...but no, it is really special... its not just psychedelic funk jam nonsense...it is on another level...need to give them all a bit more of a listen...hard to take it all in....

 

[killer b]

Hendrix was going to do an album with Gil Evans too, that would have been something... The Evans album of Hendrix covers that happened instead is interesting (if not totally successful).

 

[ska invita]

Hendrix was going to do an album with Gil Evans too, that would have been something... The Evans album of Hendrix covers that happened instead is interesting (if not totally successful).

what's that one called kb?

btw had a look at hendrix on discogs and there are endless albums... God knows what's on them all...

 

[killer b]

It's called The Gil Evans orchestra plays the music of Jimi hendrix

The Gil Evans Orchestra Plays the Music of Jimi Hendrix - Wikipedia

It's worth a run through, but I doubt you'll feel the need to return to it tbh.

 

[killer b]

I believe a lot of those hendrix albums are repackaged bootleg material of mostly quite poor quality. Although I have one which is quite interesting, I'll see if I can find it for you

 

[ska invita]

a few I glanced at looked like blues sessions? Worth a thread of it's own really...

 

[ska invita]

I really rate Miles more than ever now...i can see why people voted him the greatest jazz musician of all time recently. Such an exceptional career.

this fusion thing wasn't a one off experiment...he ploughed this field for nearly a decade....ploughed it till he dropped in fact! After the Agharta/Pangaea session he went recluse for a few years. It must've been a lot of drugs.... And that's coming off the back of the sixties and fifties heroin years iirc? I did read a biography (Ian carr) years ago, but I've forgotten it now.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

live at fillmore east march 7th 1970 atm.

 

[krtek a houby]

Been binging on Jack Johnson, Live-Evil and Dark Magus (on YT) so far today and all 3 are mind blowing. My Miles collection is mostly pre-fusion stuff (apart from In a Silent Way, Bitches Brew & On the Corner) so I'm quite struck with this selection.

I may even dig out my Mahavishnu Orchestra albums for a listen tomorrow!

 

[andysays]

In A Silent Way recorded 50 years ago today

When the boxed set for the complete In A Silent Way sessions was released it included longer edits of both 'Shhh/ Peaceful' and 'It's About That Time.' The opening section of 'It's About That Time' was a duplicate of the closing section of 'Shhh/ Peaceful,' suggesting that one of the approaches Teo Macero had attempted was to join these pieces into one continuous track (he later re-edited these pieces into the form eventually found on the LP). Here, to celebrate the session's 50th anniversary, we recreate the original edit as Macero might have originally envisioned it.