Bernard Madoff, former chairman of the NASDAQ in $50 billion Ponzi scheme.
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turing test
Nearly Toowrong
I value this spider at $50billion...
It is missing a leg. So it can't be that valuable.
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
So are we going to get to a point where we start saying that financial institutions handling large amounts of money should be forced to have their books and methods open to scrutiny (and screw their bleating about how they need to do things in secret in order to give themselves a competitive edge)?
This is my common sense reaction (short of completely changing our economic system of course) - is it a sensible one or not?
This is my common sense reaction (short of completely changing our economic system of course) - is it a sensible one or not?
Y/W, i don't relish ordinary folk losing their savings, but why was it allowed to go undetected for so long?, if it is 'the tip of the iceberg' this guys says, why didn't he speak out earlier? The whole thing is rotten to the core, with all parties implicated, the city, traders, politicians, specualtors, investors, etc, and the sad thing there isn't even a social democratic left in the Uk to challenge it and make the running
Kanda
Diving wanker
We're audited regularly and are very open about our practices and compliance data. How these people get away with I have no fucking clue. We're (Hedge Fund) constantly under scrutiny by the FSA. Regular check-ups on compliance, nightly trading data sent to the FSA etc etc etc...
Maybe the SEC are just slack fucks.
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
Congress repealed the legislation that would have regulated this kind of thing in 1992.
Other than that I'm told that the SEC has been majorly underfunded the last eight years.
Add on to that the fact that there is a lot of cross hiring between the government and the financial industry and it's not suprising we're in this situation.
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
Yep.
He was following advice given to him by Greenspan, who at the time was considered a genius who could not be questioned.
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
IMO in all these recent financial crises any politicians who try to lay the blame on the other party just show themselves to be cunts. In the UK and US the two parties have had as-near-identical-as-makes-no-difference economic policies - and particularly in regard to regulation of financial markets - for at least two decades now.
They're all to blame.
They're all to blame.
bluestreak
HomosexualityIsStalin’sAtomBombtoDestroyAmerica
You're so fucking naive that it angers me.
The whole system is set up to allow it to happen. It happens because there is no effective controls. There are no controls because there is no political will. There is no political will because the same people who run the country are the same people whose mates are defrauding you, and the people you care about, and each other.
bluestreak
HomosexualityIsStalin’sAtomBombtoDestroyAmerica
elbows
Well-Known Member
There have been a few stories in the financial press that are pondering whether this fraudulent hedge fund could lead to the death of most other hedge funds, as confidence plummets.
Now there have been some people moaning about hedge funds for years, maybe because they dont like their tactics, or because they question whether the hedge funds have really been hedging their bets properly. Well now it looks like the moment of reckoning awaits. So many ways of doing business look destined to fade away over the next few years, and it wont just be the people who were blatantly gaming the system or committing fraud.
I want to read something about the excesses of the roaring 20's, any ideas?
Now there have been some people moaning about hedge funds for years, maybe because they dont like their tactics, or because they question whether the hedge funds have really been hedging their bets properly. Well now it looks like the moment of reckoning awaits. So many ways of doing business look destined to fade away over the next few years, and it wont just be the people who were blatantly gaming the system or committing fraud.
I want to read something about the excesses of the roaring 20's, any ideas?
A mark of how large this financial crisis has become was my initial gut-reaction to hearing about this fraud. 50 billion, I thought, well that's a lot less than a 700 billion bailout, etc... Bloody stupid reaction but inevitable given the amounts of money that have been talked about in recent months.
Kanda
Diving wanker
Hedge Funds that aren't transparent will suffer the most, as will those that lockdown redemptions (mainly the bigger ones like Citadel). As ever, shady practices will suffer. Due diligence is taking a LOT longer than it used to but we're seeing a record number of people wanting to put money IN!!! We've had redemptions but we've also had people put the money straight back in once their liquidity problems are solved. Kinda using us like a bank as we don't stop people taking their cash out!!
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
The bailout is multi trillion scam. Get used to it.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
This is all planned yes?
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Answer the question.
I'll clarify - is the recession engineered by that elite that you're on about for their own gain?
Not, note, the word not,have they tried to make the situation benefit themselves.
I'll clarify - is the recession engineered by that elite that you're on about for their own gain?
Not, note, the word not,have they tried to make the situation benefit themselves.
SaskiaJayne
Rural Guerrilla
So where is the money now? If Madoff dont want to spend the next 30yrs in jail I presume he will cooperate, he must have put it somewhere. Or am I being too simplistic, say a pension fund puts £10m in a hedge fund. does the £10m exist in cash & title to the cash transfer from one to t'other. Can money exist in some other way than cash or assets like property or gold bars?
david dissadent
New Member
By and large it does not exist and perhaps never existed.
People put money into his company and he would tell everyone how great he was doing on the markets. He got alot of new clients who would put money in which meant he always had money to pay out to the older clients. But the economic crisis hit and people needed money for a variety of reasons, so some of the $50 billion he said his clients had in the company was being pulled out. Eventualy they pulled so much out that he had to admit that it was all just a pyramid scheme.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Yeah, a Ponzi scheme can continue pretty much indefinitely as long as few investors withdraw and there is a continuing supply of people who think they can get something for nothing.
Given that the latter have not been in short supply I suspect that we will see more examples of this, with supposedly "solid" investments turning out to be based on bullshit. (The ultimate assumption of course being that that's what the whole system is based on.)
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
It seems this guy was caught out because the track from investment to withdrawl was fairly simple. I'd be very surprised if there weren't much more complex - and profitable - investment schemes that have suckered people for much more money. Even without conscious control or design, just as an inevitable effect of weird financial games.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Yep there appear to be no shortage of weird financial games that could only work by making some assumptions, and those assumptions are no longer safe. People blinked and saw a naked emperor. If new lies cannot be found to provide ample cover for his genitalia, we'll see a lot more weird reality coming unglued.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
I think the recession was inevitable. Fraud on the scale of the derivatives / futures level will eventually be found out. The timing and nature may have been manipulated somewhat.
The current looting is certainly planned. The specific "no scrutiny" clause in the bail out bill didnt just occur out of thin air any more than The Patriot Act did.
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