Benefit cheats face lie detectors

[Kid_Eternity]

Something I don't get, why do they need to face lie detectors if they are already known to be scamming?

This idea is just one big as far as I'm concerned...

Lie detectors will be used to help root out benefit cheats, Work and Pensions Secretary John Hutton has said.

So-called "voice-risk analysis software" will be used by council staff to help identify suspect claims.

It can detect minute changes in a caller's voice which give clues as to when they may be lying.

The technology is already used by the insurance industry to combat fraud and will be trialled by Harrow Council, in north London, from May.

It will be tested on housing and council tax benefit claims first, before being rolled out to job centres later in the year.

Announcing the pilot, Mr Hutton said: "This technology aims to tackle fraudsters while speeding up claims and improving customer service for the honest majority."

Link

 

[Sunspots]

As was asked of John Hutton during an interview about this on Radio 5 this morning:

-If this is about clamping down on fraud, how about the government applying the same amount of effort to closing the legal loopholes that allow 'creative accounting' by corporations, which helps them avoid paying millions of pounds of tax every year?

 

[_angel_]

I thought everyone knows lie detector tests can be scammed and aren't acceptable as evidence in courts.

 

[Fruitloop]

I bet everybody starts doing this soon. I wonder if they have to add it to the messages that say that calls are being recorded?

 

[Sunspots]

Well if the general public are going to be expected to put up with this kind of bollocks, I don't see why all politicians shouldn't have to undergo lie-detector tests every time they open their mouths...

 

[Fruitloop]

Interesting idea. If it works down the phone, I bet it works over the radio!

 

[wishface]

As was asked of John Hutton during an interview about this on Radio 5 this morning:

-If this is about clamping down on fraud, how about the government applying the same amount of effort to closing the legal loopholes that allow 'creative accounting' by corporations, which helps them avoid paying millions of pounds of tax every year?

how about clamping down on john hutton's head. stupid ignorant privileged cunt. i bet he has no idea what its like for people on the dole. clearly he and the rest of his gang of utter scumcunts dont care.

i would apologise for the rant, but i am at my wits end with these fuckers.

 

[newbie]

I bet everybody starts doing this soon. I wonder if they have to add it to the messages that say that calls are being recorded?

the link says they will, but I doubt if it will say "LIE DETECTOR IN USE!", more likely "this call will be recorded for training and analysis".
It doesn't matter whether or not it's admissible in court- they'll use it to target further investigation and use any evidence that brings up.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

It would have been interesting listening to Hutton facing a lie detector when he announced the rationale for the Freud review.

Or Bliar when he announced the reasons for taking the country to an illegal war.

Or Brown when he announced the reasons for undermining the final salary pension schemes for millions of workers.

But benefit cheats, scum of the eatch eh?

 

[wishface]

it's not benefits cheats per se that annoys me, it's the assumption that everyone one benefits is a lazy fraudster. this pollicy doesn't discriminate and woill target everyone on the dole. God forbid if they ring when you are in the middle of dealing with an upset child or something; your tone won't be very measured then!

 

[Fruitloop]

Hmm, I forsee a whole new area of historical endeavour. 'Bullshitters throughout history'

 

[Wolveryeti]

I don't see anything particularly controversial in this new development. If it was something like "Failing the lie detector test will result in instant removal of benefits" it would be an outrage, but as far as I can see this will just make investigators' lives much easier.

If you are innocent what do you have to fear?

 

[nino_savatte]

Great, Jeremy Kyle comes to a Jobcentre near you.

 

[nino_savatte]

If you are innocent what do you have to fear?

This is the same argument that is used in the defence of greater surveillance of the population. Then they come for you....

 

[snorbury]

If you are innocent what do you have to fear?

 

[Kid_Eternity]

I thought everyone knows lie detector tests can be scammed and aren't acceptable as evidence in courts.

How long before changes to the law are proposed to allow them for this and a whole heap of other 'crimes'.

 

[Sunspots]

Interesting idea. If it works down the phone, I bet it works over the radio!

Listening to John Hutton this morning, he seemed to preface most responses to any challenging or embarrassing questions with an over-earnest "-Now look...", which very much reminded me of one Tony Blair.

On that basis alone, I reckon 'Voice Risk Analysis Software' should have recognized the sound of somebody avoiding being truthful.

 

[newbie]

is there any open source 'Voice Risk Analysis Software'?

 

[Fruitloop]

I reckon they must coach top politicians on gambler's 'tells', as well as all the other PR training they get.

 

[sinky]

I don't see why all politicians shouldn't have to undergo lie-detector tests every time they open their mouths...

Unfortunately you would need a recording of a politician actually being honest to establish a benchmark.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

voicecrime!!

 

[wishface]

I don't see anything particularly controversial in this new development. If it was something like "Failing the lie detector test will result in instant removal of benefits" it would be an outrage, but as far as I can see this will just make investigators' lives much easier.

If you are innocent what do you have to fear?

come on man, that's just hopelessly naive!

If lie detector technology was foolproof it'd be used in courts! That should point to it's efficacy - to say nothing of the issues of civil liberties; that the dole bludgers of GB deserve this treatment precisely because. Ugh.

 

[free spirit]

is there any open source 'Voice Risk Analysis Software'?

http://www.newfreedownloads.com/download-X13-VSA-Voice-Lie-Detector.html

free trial version anyway

 

[Crispy]

I suspect that, given the nature of politics, truth and lies sound exactly the same when spoken by a politician.

 

[likesfish]

you need a control question
obviously
take a politician prod with cattle prod then ask them if it hurts
repeat say about a random sample of a 1000 just to rule out the odd sicko who enjoys that sort of thing

 

[Final]

I know more than a couple of Harrow peeps who might have to take this test - will see what they say when they get subjected.

5Live covered this on the radio this morning and had the minister concerned on the phone. They told him they'd connected him to one of his own devices - and then asked him if he really wanted Brown as leader.

The ministers voice totally cracked up - it was classic.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

What really fucks me off with Hutton was his remark along the lines of 'if people are unfortunate enough to need to claim benefits....'

Oh, of course, benefit claimants are poor unfortunates, a different species to the rest of us, set them up as a subculture with a strong element of out and out fraudsters in their ranks, they don't need support, they need stigma, hang em high etc etc.

The welfare system is for everyone, everyone has a stake in contributing to it and everyone should be confident in the ability of the system to meet the needs of those who use it.

Fraud is at its lowest level for over 10 years, with more than two-thirds of the proportion of the welfare budget that is paid out erroneously being due to mistakes yet the official response to error in the system is to, um, reduce the staffing and budegt of DWP by 5% year on year, pay the civil servants managing to hang onto their jobs a fucking pittance and target fraud. Wankers.

 

[skunkboy69]

lets make it fair across the board.Politicians should have to speak through the software at ALL times

 

[bluestreak]

innit.

 

[ViolentPanda]

If you are innocent what do you have to fear?

If this software is anything like what has been used in the US, then the innocents have plenty to fear.

The premise behind the software is that it analysies stress patterns, pauses and inflections. That means that if it's analysing someone who, say, has a meek disposition or doesn't have English as a first langauge, then it'll give false positives.
The problem isn't that people might have their benefits instantaneously withdrawn, it's that they might be subjected to the stress of being investigated for no good reason.

If you've ever been investigated by the benefits agency you'll know it's very stressful. They might try to operate on a presumption of innocence, but they don't often succeed.