kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Yes, making a tasteless joke about that paedo couple who kept those kids in their basement. That's what I was saying you pompous twat.
Belgium about to break up?
- Thread starter Brainaddict
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kyser_soze said:
I have said nothing that would give you justification to call me pompous. Your tasteless 'joke' required a comment, that's all.
mae said:
brussels is francophone, but surounded by flemish speakers in the suburbs.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
I remember walking into a shop in bruges, attempting to speak french to the shop keeper and wondering why I got such a nasty look from him...
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
How will this effect the price of waffles? Maybe we should invade to keep the waffle supply lines open and the price stable?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Yuwipi Woman said:
You could call 'em "freedom waffles"!
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
ViolentPanda said:
I should have seen that coming.
Gmarthews said:Wallonia can become a region of France. Flanders can become a region of Holland, while Brussels can be an independent state.
Easy
I really don't see the Dutch being very enthusiastic about taking Vlaanderen into Nederland.
Gmart
Well-Known Member
Lock&Light said:
Maybe, though it is a rich area and I don't see too many reasons against it.
That said it doesn't really matter too much coz Europe covers most things. Wallonia seems keen to be part of france, and so if the Dutch aren't keen to take Flanders as a region, then it could be an 'independent' state.
Raises some interesting questions though, coz there seems to be a need for an extraordinary process in case a certain area such as Flanders or Catalonia should wish to be independent rather than part of a bigger nation.
With the technical principle of subsidiarity in Europe they would do well to suggest such a process, maybe a fixed number of signatures triggering an addition to the ballot paper of the next general election in the relevant area. Might sort these issues out while reducing the 'need' for violence many feel.
lewislewis
Lumumba Cymru
Gmarthews said:
Decent post, there needs to be a European legislative mechanism for nations becoming independent or self-governing. It should be based on the principle of self-determination and a free and fair referendum.
I think it would be extremely rare for violence to be involved in any of these events. In the cases where there is national resentment, such as Montenegro and Serbia there was no violence in the actual independence transition, despite a brutal war a few years before. In the case of Catalonia, Scotland, Wales and even the Euskadi where they have had terrorism, there wouldn't be any violence.
But there does need to be an official process.
I don't agree with putting an option on a ballot paper, but if the democratically elected government of each country decides to press ahead with an independence referendum, that would be fair.
However, why are you assuming that Flanders or Wallonia would 'join' France or the Netherlands? With Wallonia you might have a point, but Flanders has aspirations towards independence, not joing the Netherlands.
lewislewis said:
What does "European legislative mechanism" mean? Sanctitoned by the EU Parliament? Or the Council of Europe? Or a treaty amongst European nations? Why not simply recognise the principle of self-determination in the UN Charter and let nations decide how they themselves want to do it?
As for a free and fair referendum, in many cases, social and security circumstances are such that holding a referendum may not be possible. Additionally, if region A has people of descent from region B, would a referendum purely of people in region A be appropriate? Might not ethnic kin in region B have a say? But then those in region B might object and overwhelm the majority in Region A that want independence.
Calling for a procedure for secession/independence/autonomy sounds like another job for bureaucrats and international lawyers.
Bonfirelight
Crocodile
they must try again in belgium
JTG said:Brussels is bilingual but the surrounding area is Flemish
Not really a proper country anyway is it. Bit like the UK in that respect.
bilingual, yes, but by far and large francophone.
Gmart
Well-Known Member
lewislewis said:
If Flanders wishes to be independent then this suggests that there should be an article of the proposed European Constitution which acknowledges this need, and which thus triggers a referendum or the addition to the ballot paper. A world-wide UN mechanism might be too much to hope for, so let the EU take the lead.
As for different people living in the same area, then if the culture making the attempt towards independence doesn't have a majority, then they will not win the vote.
This would probably state the position as clearly as necessary to stymie the situation, and might even move it towards a more permanent solution.
Remember this situation might well come up again, but the more democratic votes which fail the more people will want the issue to drop. Maybe the disenters will move out, or even be bought out? Whatever the case, the injection of a democratic layer would cause an aggregate reduction in violence.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
If Belgium breaks up, it bodes ill for the future of a unified Canada.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Belushi said:
Yeah.
Johnny Canuck2 said:
vive le quebec libre!
Lock&Light said:
mmm... I saw a survey held by national TV (Flemish) where all the Dutch interviewed had a differnt opinion than yours.
The truth is that not many Flemish would "welcome" annexation to The Netherlands (again).
By the way: Belgium is not about to "split up". Long and diicult discussions to come to an agreement when forming a government aren't unusual. What is unusual is the level of (read: lack of ) intellect of an amount of participants who behave like puberal schoolchildren.
The crux of the matter is that Leterme and his political gang made an already legally closed matter (BHV) and an already formerly discussed State Reform *the* hot item in their election campaign. All while constantly provoking the Wallon parties and citizens with a range of idiocies one must assess as yet an other attempt to win over the ignorant Flemish (more to the point: Western Flemish and rural) voting public.
I still can't believe this incompetent fool got so many personal votes. Really.
At the moment he shows once again his complete lack of statemanship by klinging on to the coveted post of prime minister (olf which he made no secret that he was dying to get it). Anyone with a shred of decency would have thrown the towel in the ring.
salaam.
Aldebaran said:
It's exactly the preponderence of such people in Flemish politics that persaude most Dutch people to want little to do with them.
Aldebaran said:
Not all Dutch people, perhaps, but those with any interest in politics are certainly well aware of the 'Belgische toestanden'. (Belgian conditions)
I doubt the Dutch to have any such interest. It is already for Belgians difficult to to obtain a good insight, let alone to have a good clue of all what plays aznd is played out at the moment in what happens at the moment.
Like I said, it is a joke, really. There is nothing to discuss about BHV since all of it was already discussed and put into law. If this isn't applied, there can't be even held new elections (in fact, the former elections should already deemed to be illegal because of failure to apply the law).
The same for the dossiers on state reform. It was was a big and ver pittyful mistake of CD&V/NVA to make that such an item in their election campaign. (That they could even proves how poorly informed their voters are.)
salaam.
Like I said, it is a joke, really. There is nothing to discuss about BHV since all of it was already discussed and put into law. If this isn't applied, there can't be even held new elections (in fact, the former elections should already deemed to be illegal because of failure to apply the law).
The same for the dossiers on state reform. It was was a big and ver pittyful mistake of CD&V/NVA to make that such an item in their election campaign. (That they could even proves how poorly informed their voters are.)
salaam.
Aldebaran said:
There are plenty of Dutch people who have a great deal of interest in Belgian politics, and even more who are concerned by the strength of Vlaams Belang.
There is no "strenght" of VB since they aren't allowed to participate in any form of direct governing due to the cordon sanitaire (in fact a direct violation of democracy). Which dooms them to eternal opposition role everywhere.
I know nu Dutch citizen with any interest - let alone informed knowledge - in Belgian politics, not even among my personal friends. The same counts the other way round: Belgians aren't interested in Dutch politics and have not much of a clue (if anything).
It is not because there is historical similarity in the language of Flanders and The Netherlands, that this automatically leads to "huge interest" in each other's nation, let alone its politics.
salaam.
I know nu Dutch citizen with any interest - let alone informed knowledge - in Belgian politics, not even among my personal friends. The same counts the other way round: Belgians aren't interested in Dutch politics and have not much of a clue (if anything).
It is not because there is historical similarity in the language of Flanders and The Netherlands, that this automatically leads to "huge interest" in each other's nation, let alone its politics.
salaam.
Aldebaran said:
I'm still prepared to accept that you do know something about Belgium, but it doesn't appear that you know very much about the Dutch.
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