Beginning Programming - Advice Required
- Thread starter peppery
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FridgeMagnet
Administrator
BBC BASIC. Probably a bit late for that now.
What are you wanting to do with this programming?
What are you wanting to do with this programming?
Z80 Assembler.
Definitely late for that, unless you're going into heating and venitlation hardware.
Pascal. Stood me in good stead for anything vaguely procedural. Just write it pretending it's Pacal, and it works sooner (and, I think, often faster) than if you write it in native style.
If you want to learn good habits that make working programs that you can read three days later and understand what you were on about, it's that. Or Java if you want to be modern; but to me at least there's a much steeper learning curve coming to grips with this "object" malarkey.
Definitely late for that, unless you're going into heating and venitlation hardware.
Pascal. Stood me in good stead for anything vaguely procedural. Just write it pretending it's Pacal, and it works sooner (and, I think, often faster) than if you write it in native style.
If you want to learn good habits that make working programs that you can read three days later and understand what you were on about, it's that. Or Java if you want to be modern; but to me at least there's a much steeper learning curve coming to grips with this "object" malarkey.
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
peppery said:
Welcome to the real world - the world of the code
Programming is just a way of converting thoughts into instructions that a machine can follow - much like raising children. Forget one minor instruction and all hell breaks loose.
I would very strongly suggest that you take a course or make friends with a programmer. One language is pretty much like the other, but you have to understand the basic concepts of looping, logic tables, searches and the like.
When I want to learn a new language, I use either Sams or the Bible series. Both explain things in very basic terms.
If you want a couple of forums that can help you with the debugging or anyother questions, pm me.
As for choosing a language, do you have something special you want to do or is this just for personal knowledge? If you have something in mind, choosing the language will be a little easier.
Good luck and have fun.
kained&able
Here for the football.
pascale is a piece of piss not used much these days but is seemingly the father of almost all codes.
really depends what you want to do if you want to do web stuff then obviously html, if you want to pull your hair out and work out lots of co-ordinates then its all about java.
dave
really depends what you want to do if you want to do web stuff then obviously html, if you want to pull your hair out and work out lots of co-ordinates then its all about java.
dave
depending on what you want to learn i guess. there are largley two camps, procedural and object orientated (oo). i find oo more usefull but then any java coder would. i'd sugest you start with python if you want to learn oo programing as it's simple and not to convoluted with difficult desing and architecture baggage, http://www.python.org/ they have links to usefull resources for new programmer on there as well and are generaly welcoming to newcommers. and there is this book that is very usefull and will give you a good start in the general theory as well.
once you've got a grasp of that java, c or c++ seems to be the big once to get to grips with, all depending on what you want to do.
and i'm sure there are people here who will be hapy to aid you when you get stuck in any of the above languages.
ohh...
and i started with writing domino application, using lotus formula language and lotus script. not the way to go to becom a programer but made mony at the time.
once you've got a grasp of that java, c or c++ seems to be the big once to get to grips with, all depending on what you want to do.
and i'm sure there are people here who will be hapy to aid you when you get stuck in any of the above languages.
ohh...
and i started with writing domino application, using lotus formula language and lotus script. not the way to go to becom a programer but made mony at the time.
DarthSydodyas
rusting
BBC Basic, but only because there a limited selection of programming tools at school. I wanted C back then, but they werent keen on spending £100 on a language that tough for a school kid.peppery said:
Is this for study, or are you working towards something for employment?
C64 BASIC, although I would also advise Pascal as a learning language. It's a good idea as well a starting to code stuff from scratch to have a go at implementing some prewritten code, so you can see how larger projects work and get used to reading a (hopefully) good coding style.
Start with javascript - you can get yourself a starters-book, or just do an internet tutorial. You can write scripts using notepad text-editor and open them up with your browser to test yout work.
You can start by writing simple procedures that take users inputs, assign variables and print out some results.
you can then move onto programs that use looping, and make their own decisions about what to do next.
And that's really all there is to programming, learning different languages just about learning to use the same techniques with different keywords and grammar. All programs just take inputs, do something with the information, and put it out somewhere.
You can pick up the object-orientated theory later, but Javascript itself does have some capacity to teach you this, if you want to learn OO programming - or not if you'd prefer.
You can start by writing simple procedures that take users inputs, assign variables and print out some results.
you can then move onto programs that use looping, and make their own decisions about what to do next.
And that's really all there is to programming, learning different languages just about learning to use the same techniques with different keywords and grammar. All programs just take inputs, do something with the information, and put it out somewhere.
You can pick up the object-orientated theory later, but Javascript itself does have some capacity to teach you this, if you want to learn OO programming - or not if you'd prefer.
Buddy Bradley
Pantheistic solipsist
If you want to learn it to improve your employment prospects, J2EE or .NET seem to be the hot thing at the moment; at least, that's what my Monster emails are all full of.
Programming is like sex - you make one little mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life.
Programming is like sex - you make one little mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life.
Started off with a couple of BASICs (Alcock's book, Illustrating BASIC is still available) although these days, I would suggest starting with Python: the reward factor is much higher.peppery said:
There's a number of good Python books, some available online. I enjoyed Think Like A Computer Scientist.
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the core of what Stallman has been going on about for all these years...DarthSydodyas said:BBC Basic, but only because there a limited selection of programming tools at school. I wanted C back then, but they werent keen on spending £100 on a language that tough for a school kid.
Fortunately, we now get all these shiny tools for free. And we can even take apart the tools to learn how they work.
Oh, one other thing: don't learn your first programming language because it will get you a job. Learn your first language for fun. Python or Lisp. Then go and learn one of the office languages....
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
I'd go for Pascal, then Java for the OO stuff. Once you get the hang of programming you can pick up a new langauge fairly easily, esp the modern ones.
I'd stay clear of scripted langauges(vb,vb/javascript), go for something thats compiled fully as you can't get away with as much and it'll teach you good habits.
I'd stay clear of scripted langauges(vb,vb/javascript), go for something thats compiled fully as you can't get away with as much and it'll teach you good habits.
Bob_the_lost
Elsewhere
I started on Pascal, about three years ago, although i'd done machine code programing before that. Good teaching language is the verdict for it. VB seems too sloppy to be a good starting language, java would be good i suppose and slightly more useful than pascal.
You can do worse than a book called "Sams Teach yourself Java 2 in 21 days" not a bad little book i'm using to get my head round java, lots of examples.
You can do worse than a book called "Sams Teach yourself Java 2 in 21 days" not a bad little book i'm using to get my head round java, lots of examples.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
If I was learning to program again these days I would definitely start in an OO language, probably something like Python or Ruby (I was deciding between the two recently as I want to learn a proper OO language, I decided on Ruby but there's nothing wrong with Python).
You're not going to get a job just like that anyway - programming, while not actually as hard as all that to do professionally, does take a while to get into. As rich! says you might as well learn something that you can at least do a bit of fun stuff with and which isn't too annoying. Both Ruby and Python you can use for web things, if that interests you, and for little useful tasks on your computer. And if you then want to move on to Java or C++ or whatever you'll have a good grounding in OO and not be just some horrible C hacker writing code everyone hates.
You're not going to get a job just like that anyway - programming, while not actually as hard as all that to do professionally, does take a while to get into. As rich! says you might as well learn something that you can at least do a bit of fun stuff with and which isn't too annoying. Both Ruby and Python you can use for web things, if that interests you, and for little useful tasks on your computer. And if you then want to move on to Java or C++ or whatever you'll have a good grounding in OO and not be just some horrible C hacker writing code everyone hates.
Not meaning to start a language war... but ...FridgeMagnet said:
Python has really good libraries:
Code:
import turtle
a=turtle.Pen()
a.down()
a.forward(10)
a.left(90)
a.forward(10)
a.left(90)
a.forward(10)
a.left(90)
a.forward(10)The first time I tried the turtle library, and a window popped up on my screen with the little triangle in, I was so surprised I fell off my settee. At that point, I'd been programming on and off for 20 years...
Buddy Bradley
Pantheistic solipsist
Heh, I remember those Turtle programs from BBC BASIC days... 
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
LOGO wasn't it?
Point to be stressed: if you're interested in learning, you want not to learn first a language you'll actually be using.
If you do end up working with computer code - particularly if it's in administration - one of the most valuable skills to have is the ability to look at something in a language you've never used and work out what it's about.
Having more than one language broadens the mind massively en tout cas
If you do end up working with computer code - particularly if it's in administration - one of the most valuable skills to have is the ability to look at something in a language you've never used and work out what it's about.
Having more than one language broadens the mind massively en tout cas
fractionMan
Custom Title
Some sort of J2EE monstrosity is it? An 8 tier something or other distributed whotsit?jæd said:
FridgeMagnet said:
I need to learn VBA for work, but I think it would be an advantage for me to learn other langauges, especially an oo one like C++ or Java.
I have heard though that C++ is probably the hardest thing in the universe to learn. Would it be easier to start with Java or Ruby?
At least it doesn't include CORBA or does it?Fruitloop said:
In terms of learning coding, I reckon it is always best to start on a procedural language, as long as it is compiled and strongly typed. Sadly, there really aren't many compiled procedural languages in common use today, so it probably means Pascal or a pure teaching language (modula-2, modula-3, etc).
The ideal next step would be to translate your code to procedural C++ and then learn how to make it OO.
If you go that route, all subsequent languages will be easy.
DarthSydodyas
rusting
I wrote my final paper on CORBA. :'(
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