BBC To represent the white working class with ties to the right

[Thora]

What does this mean? I even looked up vindication. Then I read the thread (mostly). Everyone understands it except me

I thought he meant victimisation

 

[butchersapron]

He means villification.

 

[Thora]

Ahh...

 

[AnnaKarpik]

All makes sense now.

 

[Firky]

He means villification.

That's the fella - I shouldn't trust my crappy American spell check.

 

[Firky]

It depends what you mean by "capitalism".

If you mean they're opposed to a global free market, they are.

What do you mean by it would be a better question. So, what do you think capitalism means in your own words?

 

[mk12]

As noted above, there's a not missing there. It should read

"I didn't say solely, but the areas in which they're winning seats are the areas of 'marginalised' white w/c people that the idiots behind this white season imagine."

..and the 'winning seats' is key in that sentence.

So why do the IWCA, for example, aim to counter the BNP by doing community work in areas made up of the "marginalised white w/c"? If that's not where the BNP are gaining influence?

"The rest of the left see the white working class as the BNP’s constituency. I think the left drive working-class people into the arms of the fascists, whereas we’re there to coax people the other way.’"

Should the IWCA not worry about this happening, if the "white w/c" isn't voting BNP anyway?

 

[butchersapron]

So why do the IWCA, for example, aim to counter the BNP by doing community work in areas made up of the "marginalised white w/c"? If that's not where the BNP are gaining influence?

"The rest of the left see the white working class as the BNP’s constituency. I think the left drive working-class people into the arms of the fascists, whereas we’re there to coax people the other way.’"

Should the IWCA not worry about this happening, if the "white w/c" isn't voting BNP anyway?

I don't think that's quite an accurate description of the approach, it's more to do with addressing the needs of the working class (of whatever colour) on a class based agenda before the BNP come knocking with their race based one (and the liberal multi-culturalists with their top down cultural one). It's not about directly going into areas where the BNP have already made inroads and going head-to-head with them for one afternoon- that's been one of the failing of the traditional lefts approach in this areas, chasing after the BNP in all sorts of areas in which they have no local or community roots, only to dissapear the next day. It's about setting the agenda before the BNP or other people do, not reacting to the BNP's agenda.

And i think there's a danger of seeing white w/c as by definition marginalised - the two aren't logically or necessarily connected.

 

[mk12]

But why would the BNP try and gain influence in white w/c areas, if they were succeeding in middle class areas?

Is there evidence that this is the case anywhere? Aren't Respect usually criticsed for not campaiging in working class areas where the BNP aim to gain a foothold?

 

[butchersapron]

But why would the BNP try and gain influence in white w/c areas, if they were succeeding in middle class areas?

Is there evidence that this is the case anywhere? Aren't Respect usually criticsed for not campaiging in working class areas where the BNP aim to gain a foothold?

I don't follow your point here at all. I'm not saying that BNP aren't campaigning and targeting w/c votes and areas, i'm saying that they are not really winning seats in areas that are characterised as being populated by marginalised w/c electorates.

And i don't see your RESPECT point either to be honest. The IWCA approach is to situate activity in areas in which they have long standing community roots and not to turn up in another area they've no previous contact with on any level claiming to speak on behalf of the locals, then buggering off.

The Joseph Rowntree trust did a report into who votes BNP 3 or 4 years back, well before the last spurt of councillors - they only had 15 at the time, they also did a far more up-to-date investigation last year, here is a summary of their findings:

1) between 18 and 24 per cent of the electorate might consider voting for the BNP;
2) there is no relationship between low voter turnout and support for the BNP;
3) support for the BNP does not come from places where the poorest and most deprived people in British society live but from areas with skilled or semi-skilled workers;
4) White people who vote for the BNP tend to live in wards which are predominantly White rather than in mixed areas;
immigration and asylum have become symbols for failures in other policy areas, such as education and housing;
5) a significant number of voters consider a vote for the BNP to be an effective way of sending a message to the political establishment, even though they would not want the BNP itself to obtain power.

Summary of report

Full Report

 

[mk12]

Interesting stuff, thanks for the links.

Can you expand on this though, I didn't understand it: "immigration and asylum have become symbols for failures in other policy areas, such as education and housing."

 

[butchersapron]

Interesting stuff, thanks for the links.

Can you expand on this though, I didn't understand it: "immigration and asylum have become symbols for failures in other policy areas, such as education and housing."

Yes, it appears to mean that the lack of housing and decent funded education is being turned into racial issues via the immigration debate rather than being addressed as the social/class/political issues that they really are by interested parties - politicians etc. The pressure on the education system and affordable housing is coming from immigrants, not from our own incompetence, disinterest or deliberate policies.

 

[mk12]

I remember hearing on the radio that there is a major study going on at the moment which is looking into claims that immigrants are 'jumping the queue' on housing lists. I'm not sure who it's being done by though.

 

[frogwoman]

Yes, it appears to mean that the lack of housing and decent funded education is being turned into racial issues via the immigration debate rather than being addressed as the social/class/political issues that they really are by interested parties - politicians etc. The pressure on the education system and affordable housing is coming from immigrants, not from our own incompetence, disinterest or deliberate policies.

Exactly butchers - the whole "divide and rule" shit - old as time itself really ...

nah, the bnp itself has nothing against capitalism - i'm sure if they didn't believe the "banking system" is all "jews in suits" they wouldnt give a fuck.

lots of fash groups adopt the rhetoric of the left in order to appeal to the working classes - its a tactic as old as fascism itself. the nazis did adopt/impliment some socialist policies and there was a left wing section within the nazi party. in many ways the idea of the "right wing" fash is something of a misnomer because many of them do believe in left wing principles - it's just they believe in it solely for one race, or cultural group.

there are right wing, and left wing fascists - fascism isn't a coherent political ideology at all - the one thing they can agree on is racism (and even then there is the whole question of "who is white" and do you support european/us white nationalism or british nationalism...) - and in one way that's really good for anti-fascists in that it allows their complete weakness and flimsiness as a movement to be exposed - and in another way, it is bad because it means they can be all things to all people - that's why the fash in germany got support of the upper, middle and working class (although by no means was it universal)...

but i don't think the bnp are exactly anti-capitalist, they're hardly falling over themselves to promote nationalisation or increased welfare benefits etc, are they?

 

[Ned Pointsman]

I remember hearing on the radio that there is a major study going on at the moment which is looking into claims that immigrants are 'jumping the queue' on housing lists. I'm not sure who it's being done by though.

The CRE innit ?

 

[xenon]

The working class of all races, for want of a better term, have always been marginalised.

Why are we still talking in terms of race when it comes to indigionous WC peple? Cultural differences there might be, but that's not cenonamous with skin colour or origin any more. Thought we'd got over this as a society. Immigration blah, etc. But to frame the arguments regarding fairer sharing of resources in terms of race is bullshit which ever side of the rusting fence you stand.

i blame the empowered liberals. Maybe I've misunderstood this thread.

 

[chainsaw cat]

..... and while we're on, why are the only major characters in 'Noddy' to speak with proletarian accents those naughty goblin criminals?

 

[nino_savatte]

Yes, it appears to mean that the lack of housing and decent funded education is being turned into racial issues via the immigration debate rather than being addressed as the social/class/political issues that they really are by interested parties - politicians etc. The pressure on the education system and affordable housing is coming from immigrants, not from our own incompetence, disinterest or deliberate policies.

I've been saying that all along and you've just woken up to the fact? Of course, you offer no solutions but would demand that I produce them on demand if I made the same comments.

You've no sense of irony.

 

[butchersapron]

I've been saying that all along and you've just woken up to the fact? Of course, you offer no solutions but would demand that I produce them on demand if I made the same comments.

You've no sense of irony.

Everyone's been saying that you prat, fuck me do you think you're Moses bringing the tablets down from the mountain. So bascially, you agree with me and others but have been calling them racists for a year or so. Nice one.

 

[nino_savatte]

Everyone's been saying that you prat, fuck me do you think you're Moses bringing the tablets down from the mountain.

Wind yer fucking neck in, bully boy. Though you've not offered any solutions, how about having a shot?

Oh, you've edited your post...not that it makes much difference.

 

[nino_savatte]

So what is your problem when I say that the immigration 'debate' is the same one used by racists? Why do you get so uppity with me? Is it because you're just a Internet bully with nowt else better to do than pick fights and patronise those whom you think are your political inferiors?

Take your time, friend.

 

[butchersapron]

Nino, tell you what - go do your weird stalking obsessiveness with someone else and on a different thread. Preferably one that you've already ruined - there's a whole heap of them for you to choose from. I'm not interested right now, so off you toodle...

 

[nino_savatte]

. So bascially, you agree with me and others but have been calling them racists for a year or so. Nice one.

So why do you keep claiming that I'm "accusing people of racism" or that I'm "looking for racism"?

It seems to me that you want to have your cake and eat it too. Yours is the typical behaviour of a bully.

 

[nino_savatte]

Nino, tell you what - go do your weird stalking obsessiveness with someone else and on a different thread. Preferably one that you've already ruined - there's a whole heap of them for you to choose from. I'm not interested right now, so off you toodle...

You're paranoid, I'm not "stalking" you. Don't fucking flatter yourself, bully boy.

The shoe is on the other foot now and you don't like it.

 

[nino_savatte]

"Blood on the walls" eh? Nice imagery...oh, I forget, you don't know what imagery is.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

with reference to the original post, why don't the BBC go up North & film an 'investigation' to show how racist the BNP is and give their leader loads of free publicity by broadcasting his speeches and then, er....Just remembered, they've already done that with the 'Secret Agent' documentary--best bit of free publicity (followed by the trials) the BNP have ever had...The BBC Camden latte bar perspective cannot & will not defeat racism/fascism. End of.

 

[kyser_soze]

He means villification.

Dammit, too slow on that one...

Belter of a thread BTW folks, keep it up. Haven't seen a class ding dong like this which doesn't solely revolve around the usual P&P lot for aaages...

 

[treelover]

No, but the series may shine a light on the thoughts and feelings and fears of a significant portion of the population, surely that is a good thing.

The BBC Camden latte bar perspective cannot & will not defeat racism/fascism. End of.

 

[kyser_soze]

BBC Camden latte bar perspective? Who posted that? That's almost as funny as anyone who buys a house and works in an office being called a yuppie..

That's funny, since most of the Beeb live in West London, Broadcasting House being based out in White City and all...