BBC To represent the white working class with ties to the right

[butchersapron]

Well the historical pattern for the rise of the right is getting the working class onside and then gentrifying that movement to get the middle class onboard.
.

No it's not. It's starting with the uper classes using the worried middle class, establishing their political and social agenda, finding some unemployed members of the w/c to act as the muscle, then getting big capital to fund this once it reaches a ceratin speed.

 

[butchersapron]

scuse me? Where did I personally attack you, yet you feelk the need to call me a ket munkey? Cunt

Just cos you've had a shit time of it doesn't mean we all have to?

what's wrong with wanting a bit of cash in your pocket?

It is bullshit to me, not that their isn't class but the ones that seem to bang on about it so much are middle class guardian readers.

Maybe you're one of them after all...middle class heh.

Maybe i am at that.

 

[Dhimmi]

I think I disagree, what did you mean instead of "ststring"?

 

[butchersapron]

starting

 

[Dhimmi]

Oh okay, well yes that's the start, although IMHO I still believe that the historical pattern for the rise largely involves the WC. BUT at the same time effective opposition comes from the same source.

 

[Firky]

what's wrong with wanting a bit of cash in your pocket?

There's a difference to having a bit of cash in your pocket and gross bourgeois attitudes

 

[Firky]

Err, I'm saying there is a working class, that some of em are white and that the white ones have been to some extent convinced that their hardships in life are because they're white rather than as a result fo their class position. Is that clearer?

I don't think that is the the soul reason but it is certainly one of them amongst some WWC people. In fact I would find that quite insulting: to presume that "I" thought my hardship was down to me being WASP. Quite patronising. Most WWC people I know don't blame their race - in fact, I'd wager that 90% of WWC people don't.

 

[Spion]

I don't think that is the the soul reason but it is certainly one of them amongst some WWC people. In fact I would find that quite insulting: to presume that "I" thought my hardship was down to me being WASP. Quite patronising. Most WWC people I know don't blame their race - in fact, I'd wager that 90% of WWC people don't.

I don't know what the proportion is, but it's enough for the idea to have clout, IMO. I'm basing this on living in West Yorks and the kind of conversations you hear, stuff in papers etc

 

[durruti02]

The WC of all colours is always under siege. The white working class has also been subject to a campaign by sections of the press, the Tories, the far right, trying to convince it it is being specially targetted because it is white, which is complete bollocks, but plays well as an idea, unfortunately

i do not think you understand the depth of feeling amongst millions of people who regard themselves as white, british and working class, that they have seen what limited power they have , their 'strength'/feelings of power and pride in being british (for right or wrong and britain did indeed rule the waves), the certainties, their communities, the job and housing security etc etc all taken away from them

you are 100% right that there is no specific 'attack on the white w/c' .. there is an attack on all w/c people ..

but just as we are specifically aware of how neo liberalism impacts on BME's so we need to be aware how neo liberalism has impacted on the majority w/c population who see themselves as white british and to respond in a way we all agree that is anti capitalist rather than racist as the bnp is

 

[panpete]

Nazi propaganda.
OK so some money I may have got, may have gone to an immigrant.
I dont mind helping our fellow earth dweller, many escaping from countries with oppressive regimes (silly buggers, thats the way this countrys going)
Our countries only small though, so were having to put the breaks on, but lets not incite racial hatred.
Lets not forget that most of us are descended from immigrants two or three generations ago.

 

[untethered]

but just as we are specifically aware of how neo liberalism impacts on BME's so we need to be aware how neo liberalism has impacted on the majority w/c population who see themselves as white british and to respond in a way we all agree that is anti capitalist rather than racist as the bnp is

It's probably worth pointing out that the BNP are anti-capitalist as well as being racist.

 

[chymaera]

i do not think you understand the depth of feeling amongst millions of people who regard themselves as white, british and working class,

If you change that to white, English, and working class, I would agree with you.

 

[butchersapron]

It's probably worth pointing out that the BNP are anti-capitalist as well as being racist.

Please - don't be so stupid.

 

[durruti02]

It's probably worth pointing out that the BNP are anti-capitalist as well as being racist.

i don't think that is strictly true .. they flirt with those ideas but afaik they have not gone the whole hog like e.g. harrington .. but yes i guess your point is that the BNP alos use a superficial anti capitalism in their prop. Like their pro w/c position i think it is bullshit .. i think they remain a pro capitalist, middle class and nationalist party

 

[durruti02]

If you change that to white, English, and working class, I would agree with you.

ok, fair play, i meant english people who used to call themselves british but yes, you are right, now call themselves english

 

[untethered]

Please - don't be so stupid.

I don't remember the BNP being in favour of the hegemony of global capital. Do you?

 

[Ned Pointsman]

I don't remember the BNP being in favour of the hegemony of global capital. Do you?

Still printing their newsletter in slovakia are they ?

(and no it's not because 'no one in this country will print it').

In other news - I fucking hate the bbc, cunts to a man.

 

[mk12]

I didn't say solely, but the areas in which they're winning seats are the areas of 'marginalised' white w/c people that the idiots behind this white season imagine..

So you agree that the BNP are succeeding in areas where the "marginalised white w/c" is present? Not really sure why you disagree with Spion on this issue then.

 

[Spion]

i do not think you understand the depth of feeling amongst millions of people who regard themselves as white, british and working class, that they have seen what limited power they have , their 'strength'/feelings of power and pride in being british (for right or wrong and britain did indeed rule the waves), the certainties, their communities, the job and housing security etc etc all taken away from them

No, that's right, I don't. Being brought up in Birmingham in the 60s and 70s, working in manufacturing and now living in Bradford, I have no idea of the industries that Britain used to have and how these were linked to the empire, to the military, to Britain's history of world trade etc.

but just as we are specifically aware of how neo liberalism impacts on BME's so we need to be aware how neo liberalism has impacted on the majority w/c population who see themselves as white british

And what can you tell us about this that we already don't know? Not a lot, I suspect, except how we should pander to nostalgic delusions of when Britain ruled the waves.

 

[Spion]

It's probably worth pointing out that the BNP are anti-capitalist as well as being racist.

Can you tell us one single anti-capitalist policy they have? No, I thought not

 

[untethered]

Can you tell us one single anti-capitalist policy they have? No, I thought not

It depends what you mean by "capitalism".

If you mean they're opposed to a global free market, they are.

If you mean they're opposed to people with money investing in businesses, they're not.

On the second point, you'll find that many people that turn out for "anti-capitalist" causes are also not opposed to private property and business, just to a global system where economic growth supplants all considerations of national interest, environmental sustainability and democracy.

I won't link to the BNP site as it's against the rules but you all know where it is and can go and look this up for yourself should you so choose.

 

[nino_savatte]

The BNP are "anti-capitalist"? Are you for real? You're going to have to come up with a better explanation than the half-baked reply you've given above.

If you're a good boy, I'm sure butchersapron would be happy to give you a back rub.

 

[butchersapron]

I don't remember the BNP being in favour of the hegemony of global capital. Do you?

How does that maked them anti-capitalist then. All three mainstream parties have made that sort of empty platitude part of their approach. You'd be hard pressed to find any party that actually openly argued that they were 'in favour of the hegemony of global capital.' What the BNP actually suggest is the same type of ridiculous outdated capitalisist protectionism that you've endorsed on here - a specfically pro-capitalist postion.

 

[butchersapron]

So you agree that the BNP are succeeding in areas where the "marginalised white w/c" is present? Not really sure why you disagree with Spion on this issue then.

As noted above, there's a not missing there. It should read

"I didn't say solely, but the areas in which they're winning seats are the areas of 'marginalised' white w/c people that the idiots behind this white season imagine."

..and the 'winning seats' is key in that sentence.

 

[Spion]

As noted above, there's a not missing there. It should read

"I didn't say solely, but the areas in which they're winning seats are the areas of 'marginalised' white w/c people that the idiots behind this white season imagine."

..and the 'winning seats' is key in that sentence.

Where's that bloody 'not' gone again?

 

[untethered]

How does that maked them anti-capitalist then. All three mainstream parties have made that sort of empty platitude part of their approach. You'd be hard pressed to find any party that actually openly argued that they were 'in favour of the hegemony of global capital.' What the BNP actually suggest is the same type of ridiculous outdated capitalisist protectionism that you've endorsed on here - a specfically pro-capitalist postion.

I think we're getting bogged down with the semantics of "anti-capitalist" here. I've made it clear what the BNP's policy is and how it differs from the mainstream parties who have no policies to counter the hegemony of global capital, as much as they might deplore some of its effects.

 

[butchersapron]

I think we're getting bogged down with the semantics of "anti-capitalist" here. I've made it clear what the BNP's policy is and how it differs from the mainstream parties who have no policies to counter the hegemony of global capital, as much as they might deplore some of its effects.

No need at all to get bogged down in semantics - just explain how (and why) you've decided to call a specfically pro-capitalist approach anti-capitalist. Or of course, you could accept that it's a ridiculous unsustainible claim.

 

[butchersapron]

Where's that bloody 'not' gone again?

I'm being nobbled by someone!

"I didn't say solely, but the areas in which they're winning seats are not the areas of 'marginalised' white w/c people that the idiots behind this white season imagine."

 

[Louis MacNeice]

I think we're getting bogged down with the semantics of "anti-capitalist" here. I've made it clear what the BNP's policy is and how it differs from the mainstream parties who have no policies to counter the hegemony of global capital, as much as they might deplore some of its effects.

Since when has trying to define what you are opposed to been reduced to 'semantics' (which I presume you are using in its popular disparaging sense). If you don't know what you're opposing then how are you going to do so effectively?

The BNP in its rhetoric, is for the amelioration of the worst impacts of globalisation. It is also for the preservation of private property relations; including those pertaining to employment. Indeed you could argue it attacks the former as it sees them threatening the latter.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[AnnaKarpik]

...
Does being WC result in so much vindicaton that it turns people fash?

...[/url]

What does this mean? I even looked up vindication. Then I read the thread (mostly). Everyone understands it except me