Barak H Obama: Do you believe?

[butchersapron]

Why though idris? Is there a left wing swell being held back by them at the minute?

 

[danny la rouge]

From a US forum I visited today:

How was Hitler able to become Chancellor in January 1933?
The story of why Hitler came to power is about the reasons why the German people lost their senses and allowed a vicious madman to come to power. What could have brought this about?
All the following were present from the 1920s:
1. Long-term bitterness
Deep anger about the First World War and the Treaty of Versailles created an underlying bitterness to which Hitler’s viciousness and expansionism appealed, so they gave him support.
2. Ineffective Constitution
Weaknesses in the Constitution crippled the government. In fact, there were many people in Germany who wanted a return to dictatorship. When the crisis came in 1929–1933 – there was no one who was prepared or able to fight to stop Hitler.
3. Money
The financial support of wealthy businessmen gave Hitler the money to run his propaganda and election campaigns.
4. Propaganda
Nazi propaganda persuaded the German masses to believe that the Jews were to blame and that Hitler was their last hope.
5. Programme
Hitler promised everybody something, so they supported him.
6. Attacks on other parties
The Stormtroopers attacked Jews and people who opposed Hitler. Many opponents kept quiet simply because they were scared of being murdered – and, if they were, the judges simply let the Stormtroopers go free (see point 2).
7. Personal Qualities
Hitler was a brilliant speaker, and his eyes had a peculiar power over people. He was a good organiser and politician. He was a driven, unstable man, who believed that he had been called by God to become dictator of Germany and rule the world. This kept him going when other people might have given up. His self-belief persuaded people to believe in him.
After 1929, however, two short-term factors brought Hitler to power:
8. Economic Depression
After the Wall Street Crash of 1929, the US called in its loans to Germany, and the German economy collapsed. The Number of unemployed grew; people starved on the streets. In the crisis, people starved on the streets. In the crisis, people wanted someone to blame, and looked to extreme solutions – Hitler offered them both, and Nazi success in the elections grew.
Germans turned to Nazism because they were desperate. The number of Nazi seats in the Reichstag rose from 12 in 1928 to 230 in July 1932.
9. Recruited by Hindenburg
In November 1932 elections the Nazis again failed to get a majority of seats in the Reichstag. Their share of the vote fell – from 230 seats to only 196. Hitler contemplated suicide. But then he was rescued by Hindenburg.
Franz von Papen (a friend of Hindenburg) was Chancellor, but he could not get enough support in the Reichstag. Hindenburg and von Papen were having to govern by emergency decree under Article 48 of the Constitution. They offered Hitler the post of vice-Chancellor if he promised to support them.
Hitler refused – he demanded to be made Chancellor. So Von Papen and Hindenburg took a risk. On 30 January 1933 Hindenburg made Hitler Chancellor. He thought he could control Hitler – how wrong he was.
In the end, Hitler did not TAKE power at all – he was given it.
Well said, and for those who don't know history they are doomed to repeat it. How frightening it is to see how similar Obama's rise to prominence mirrors Hitler's.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

If the republican party gets decisively damaged by this one (especially if its coalition of moneyed elites, christian conservatives, etc. is disrupted), though, then that might start things moving.

No, it won't, because everything he says is within the currently acceptable area; they're still within the Window.

You don't shift the window by just moving around within that area, you shift it by having front groups propose "ridiculous" things which are outside of that. He's not done that, he's just messing around not even on the edges of "acceptable debate".

This is something that the Democrats have not been interested in at all in the last few years - not, I would say, due to lack of skill, though that's a factor, but because they actually don't want to anyway.

 

[butchersapron]

How was Hitler able to become Chancellor in January 1933?
The story of why Hitler came to power is about the reasons why the German people lost their senses and allowed a vicious madman to come to power. What could have brought this about?
All the following were present from the 1920s:
1. Long-term bitterness
Deep anger about the First World War and the Treaty of Versailles created an underlying bitterness to which Hitler’s viciousness and expansionism appealed, so they gave him support.
2. Ineffective Constitution
Weaknesses in the Constitution crippled the government. In fact, there were many people in Germany who wanted a return to dictatorship. When the crisis came in 1929–1933 – there was no one who was prepared or able to fight to stop Hitler.
3. Money
The financial support of wealthy businessmen gave Hitler the money to run his propaganda and election campaigns.
4. Propaganda
Nazi propaganda persuaded the German masses to believe that the Jews were to blame and that Hitler was their last hope.
5. Programme
Hitler promised everybody something, so they supported him.
6. Attacks on other parties
The Stormtroopers attacked Jews and people who opposed Hitler. Many opponents kept quiet simply because they were scared of being murdered – and, if they were, the judges simply let the Stormtroopers go free (see point 2).
7. Personal Qualities
Hitler was a brilliant speaker, and his eyes had a peculiar power over people. He was a good organiser and politician. He was a driven, unstable man, who believed that he had been called by God to become dictator of Germany and rule the world. This kept him going when other people might have given up. His self-belief persuaded people to believe in him.
After 1929, however, two short-term factors brought Hitler to power:
8. Economic Depression
After the Wall Street Crash of 1929, the US called in its loans to Germany, and the German economy collapsed. The Number of unemployed grew; people starved on the streets. In the crisis, people starved on the streets. In the crisis, people wanted someone to blame, and looked to extreme solutions – Hitler offered them both, and Nazi success in the elections grew.
Germans turned to Nazism because they were desperate. The number of Nazi seats in the Reichstag rose from 12 in 1928 to 230 in July 1932.
9. Recruited by Hindenburg
In November 1932 elections the Nazis again failed to get a majority of seats in the Reichstag. Their share of the vote fell – from 230 seats to only 196. Hitler contemplated suicide. But then he was rescued by Hindenburg.
Franz von Papen (a friend of Hindenburg) was Chancellor, but he could not get enough support in the Reichstag. Hindenburg and von Papen were having to govern by emergency decree under Article 48 of the Constitution. They offered Hitler the post of vice-Chancellor if he promised to support them.
Hitler refused – he demanded to be made Chancellor. So Von Papen and Hindenburg took a risk. On 30 January 1933 Hindenburg made Hitler Chancellor. He thought he could control Hitler – how wrong he was.
In the end, Hitler did not TAKE power at all – he was given it.
Well said, and for those who don't know history they are doomed to repeat it. How frightening it is to see how similar Obama's rise to prominence mirrors Hitler's.

Obama: Hindenberg's second wave.

 

[Idris2002]

Obama: Hindenberg's second wave.

Oh, the humanity.

 

[danny la rouge]

Obama: Hindenberg's second wave.

Like, O.M.G...it's so true.

 

[sleaterkinney]

If only it were that simple.

Yeah I know what you mean, words Vs actions. I still think that there is a difference there. Even so it would represent people voting because of the issues rather than the vacuous celebrity thing that palin represents.

Um, sleater, mate, that was like, a joke.

Waaaay over my head, work a fart in there next time.

 

[Dillinger4]

my eyes have been opened.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

For completeness' sake:

 

[butchersapron]

Yeah I know what you mean, words Vs actions. I still think that there is a difference there. Even so it would represent people voting because of the issues rather than the vacuous celebrity thing that palin represents.

She doesn't represent a celebrity thing at all though. That's mad.

 

[Idris2002]

To call her a celebrity is to ignore RADICAL EVIL when you see it.

And to go back to the 'overton window' thing, look, I never said I agreed with it, and I never said there was a huge swell of left opinion waiting to be unleashed. I just think that for all that Obama represents business as usual in many ways, we are seeing American politics shift here. Where that might ultimately lead is anyone's guess.

 

[dilute micro]

Obama will eventually square off with his own party. They appear united now but when he starts pushing his idealistic world view, which I think he really believes, the democrat powers are going to let him know who runs washington. Obama's going to feel that his being elected is a mandate.

I predict a 4 year president.

Overton Window my ass.

 

[sleaterkinney]

She doesn't represent a celebrity thing at all though. That's mad.

I meant in the sense that it's not her abilities or views that are her selling points, it's her image.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Somewhere between these 2, IMO:

Promising but likely to be thwarted by the system
Just another puppet stooge

I rounded up.

 

[butchersapron]

I meant in the sense that it's not her abilities or views that are her selling points, it's her image.

It's a celebrities game in that case and Lord Obama is simply playing it better than the others.

 

[Idris2002]

The internet's great, isn't it?

I can’t prove it, but I suspect that the DOJ is as “tainted” as the FEC. Various FEC auditors have reported that they received orders that they are NOT to investigate anything to do with Obama’s campaign financing, or campaign irregularities - only McCain’s. Rumors have it DOJ has gone the same way. Paulson and Soros now own Bush - it’s an inside takeover that’s already done.

It’s also fairly common knowledge that that agencies like the NSA and CIA are also full of democratic sympathizers, and it’s quite likely that this is the also the case at the DOJ. There IS a reason such a big deal was made out of Bush removing a Federal Attorney, while nothing at all was mentioned about Clinton removing 240. It was to prevent Bush from taking action against any other Clinton appointees anywhere else. Better take a look at how many of these guys are either Clinton appointees or Democratic “sympathizers”. There won’t be any action from the DOJ on this, and anything that makes it to court will be delayed until after the election and swearing in ceremony.

Also, there is a reason Obama has already planned his victory party, and the headlines announcing his victory have already been written, just awaiting November 5th publication. Telcoms are under control like the media, just hasn’t come out yet. Whole freaking infrastructure has been conquered without a single shot fired - all 5th column stuff.

Consider this - what happens when the networks - ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN - ignore actual voting numbers and simply make up their own, provided by Obama central command? They put on a show that has Obama winning by a landslide in all 50 states as they sweep across the country during election night. Next morning the NY Times and LA Times headlines announce the “Obama Landslide”.

What % of the population would know better? What would the consequences be, and what % would just fall for it? Better give this some thought - because something like this appears to be in the works. I don’t dare say any more than this, but let me assure you that there are PLENTY of dirty tricks yet to come - nearly EVERYTHING that has taken place up until this point has just been a disctraction, a red herring, including the obvious media bias. Better wake up and look around - the NY and LA Times certainly isn’t going to report on anything, and start looking PAST the obvious things that are going on…

Listen everyone - this rabbit hole runs MUCH, MUCH deeper here than anyone has even BEGUN to realize yet. This whole thing has been in “the works” for 10+ years now - funded by tens of billions of dollars worth of George Soros’ and his associates money - so much so that the Dems are completely blatant about things now - they don’t even care about holding an election at this point - things are rigged so they CAN’T LOSE. They don’t care about being called on fraud, or anything else - they won’t be called on it, and even if some do-good State AJ happened to bring something up, well, they have enough judges in the right places to take care of things if anything does happen to “come up”.

Bottom line - They already know they have this completely sewn up and have no need to worry about anything as inconvenient as an “actual vote”. This is a coup d’état in progress, not an election - if you think any different, then try to get someone in the FEC to examine how much money BHO has and where it came from. Won’t happen. Try to get someone in DOJ to find out why the FEC isn’t investigating. Won’t happen. GET THIS THROUGH YOUR THICK HEADS - THERE WILL BE UN “PEACEKEEPERS” on AMERICAN SOIL after this election to “DEAL WITH THE VIOLENCE” - no small number of them KENYAN. THIS IS A FREAKING COUP D’ETAT IN PROGRESS, NOT AN ELECTION, and IT’S damn near a FAIT ACCOMPLI at this point. I DON’T THINK IT CAN BE STOPPED. UNDERSTAND???

Somebody had better start digging into Obama’s mysterious and hidden background - birth, school transcripts, etc. - because there’s more hidden there than anyone realizes, and there is still something that they are deathly afraid of coming to light until after the election. Berg Versus Obama and the DNC might be a good place to start. There are less than 3 weeks left to do something about this. November 5th will be too late. Forget the DOJ and FEC - they aren’t going to be helpful. I’m getting the hell out while travel still hasn’t been restricted by martial law…

 

[Idris2002]

Overton Window my ass.

Your private life is your own affair, my man. . . but I'll thank you not to share the sordid details here.

 

[Treacle Toes]

It's a celebrities game in that case and Lord Obama is simply playing it better than the others.

Are you really this bitter?

So he's playing the game, they all play it, there's no way into the whitehouse without playing it.

If he's playing the game the best then he deserves to win right?

 

[butchersapron]

Are you really this bitter?

So he's playing the game, they all play it, there's no way into the whitehouse without playing it.

If he's playing the game the best then he deserves to win right?

Bitter?

How on earth does pointing out the rules = an edorsement of either them or the game? I guess you must support GW Bush by this logic.

 

[dilute micro]

Your private life is your own affair, my man. . . but I'll thank you not to share the sordid details here.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Obama will eventually square off with his own party. They appear united now but when he starts pushing his idealistic world view, which I think he really believes, the democrat powers are going to let him know who runs washington. Obama's going to feel that his being elected is a mandate.

What is his idealistic world view? Does saying he'll do business with the democratically elected president of Venezuela somehow make him a commie?

 

[Treacle Toes]

Bitter?

It's the tone of your posts mate, really. You don't ever seem to say anything positive.

 

[elbows]

The internet's great, isn't it?

Oh my, that rant you quoted is reminding me of the 'american history as told by a talking bullet' cartoon from that Michael Moore film.

 

[butchersapron]

It's the tone of your posts mate, really. You don't ever seem to say anything positive.

But i don't support Lord Obama - but i think he'll be agreat role model for america! hip hip hooray! **smileys** is that better?

 

[Treacle Toes]

But i don't support Lord Obama - hip hip hooray! **smileys** is that better?

See, that's what I mean.

You seem really riled by the fact some people support him and appear to be throwing a sarcastic strop about it.

 

[butchersapron]

See, that's what I mean.

You seem really riled by the fact some people support him and appear to be throwing a sarcastic strop about it.

Calling someone Lord is not throwing a sarcastic strop. I just find guilt-ridden m/c deference sickening. Frankly, and i may be wrong here, but it's you who seem not a little riled.

 

[butchersapron]

Whence did this obligation not to be non-positive about Mr Obama arise anyway?

 

[Treacle Toes]

Calling someone Lord is not throwing a sarcastic strop.

So how would you describe it then? Affectionate mockery?

I just find guilt-ridden m/c deference sickening.

Please explain, not sure what you mean.

Frankly, and i may be wrong here, but it's you who seem not a little riled.

I'm not riled, just curious as you don't seem to be supporting Mccain either so what's the point?

 

[Treacle Toes]

Whence did this obligation not to be non-positive about Mr Obama arise anyway?

It never arose.
I asked you a question about the tone of your posts.
Of course, I apologise if I have spoken out of turn like.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm not riled, just curious as you don't seem to be supporting Mccain either so what's the point?

For many Americans, this election offers a choice between the shoe sizes of the feet that will kick them. I would have thought that was a reasonable position.