Ban drunks and drinking on trains

[Roadkill]

With respect, pogofish, some of the arguments you're deploying here are pretty close to those made in favour of a public smoking ban, which you oppose. How do you square that particular circle?

Besides, wouldn't it be better just to insist on more staff on trains at problem times to deal with the pisshead wankers than to ban drinking totally and inconvenience the sensible majority?

 

[Yossarian]

The people who get pissed up and act like arseholes on the trains are the same people who would be most likely to completely ignore any ban on drinking on a train anyway, all a ban do would do would be to make train travel that extra bit shittier for the rest of us.

 

[cyberfairy]

Tis unlikely the sort of people who cause hassle on trains when pissed will quietly read The Economist for four hours if told they are not allowed to drink.
I spend upwards of eight hours on a train on the weekend in order to see my partner who lives the other side of the country so I will damn right have a few over priced mini bottles of wine to make the journey seem quicker and more enjoyable. I will often talk to others doing the same or read. I do not roam the carriages looking for fights which seems to be more the preserves of shorter train trips where alcohol is not sold and a ban would be pretty much unenforcable.

 

[pogofish]

With respect, pogofish, some of the arguments you're deploying here are pretty close to those made in favour of a public smoking ban, which you oppose. How do you square that particular circle?

When it comes to the pro-ban arguments, virtually all of them are totally overshadowed by the proven harm in a whole lot more ways from drinking (& I'm talking 3rd parties here, not primaries). Also, no-smoking carriages have long been established but drinking has IME always been allowed throughout trains so there is no escape from it.

In principle tho, I'm no more in favour of an outright ban on drinking but in the face of routine pissheadedness, I can fully appreciate the justification for one. In the end, I'd rather folk learned early-on how avoid becoming wankers when they drink.

Staff might help but I'm not convinced as on one particularly memorable Glasgow-Aberdeen jounrey, the only respite from the rowdy drunken rabble was to be found in the car rammed with all the train staff, BTP & anyone else who was trying to get away from the trouble. That train ended-up stopping at several stations closed 20-odd years earlier so the injured could be removed by ambulance. Not a nice trip!

 

[beeboo]

The people who get pissed up and act like arseholes on the trains are the same people who would be most likely to completely ignore any ban on drinking on a train anyway, all a ban do would do would be to make train travel that extra bit shittier for the rest of us.

Well exactly.

Without people to enforce it a ban would be completely meaningless, as people would continue to drink on trains and before boarding.

If you had the presence of train guards or BTP to enforce it you probably wouldn't have half the trouble anyway.

 

[rutabowa]

the only unpleasantness i've ever seen on a train was done by a sober fucker

 

[Yossarian]

on one particularly memorable Glasgow-Aberdeen jounrey, the only respite from the rowdy drunken rabble was to be found in the car rammed with all the train staff, BTP & anyone else who was trying to get away from the trouble. That train ended-up stopping at several stations closed 20-odd years earlier so the injured could be removed by ambulance. Not a nice trip!

I'm starting to get the impression that train travel in Scotland is a considerably more intense experience than it is south of the border...

 

[cyberfairy]

the only unpleasantness i've ever seen on a train was done by a sober fucker

Indeed-the last train journey I took was in first class to preston from Bristol-there was a man there swearing into his mobile, swearing when signal went, giving the ticket collector tons of abuse and reading the Daily Mail and muttering about 'fucking Poles'
I normally travel economy and have chats with old ladies

 

[pogofish]

I'm starting to get the impression that train travel in Scotland is a considerably more intense experience than it is south of the border...

Main routes on match days are the worst & anything going to & from Aberdeen on rig-changeover days IME. Apart from that, or if you travel in the morning, you will be fine!

 

[pogofish]

Without people to enforce it a ban would be completely meaningless, as people would continue to drink on trains and before boarding.

Whilst I'm unlikley to want to ague for more police, or for an extension to the already considerable laws/powers, yes, enforcement is the key here. Although keeping tham off the trains in the first place might be better & they also have the power to do that, especially for football.

 

[kakuma]

whenever i used to get the train to london it was hours so i'd take some cans on with me

 

[geminisnake]

I think this is a lot of fuss about not much. You see loads of people having a beer on trains, and 99% of them don't get drunk and don't cause any trouble. Even when I've been on long-distance trains when people have been drinking quite heavily I've never seen anyone cause real problems, although granted some are a bit loud.

You're lucky you've never had to share a train with a bunch of riggers just back on shore then. I have stopped using the train because of them. They stink up the loos by smoking, they are loud and irritating coz they're drinking, more than once they have left the toilet unusable(I didn't investigate how) The reaction on a fellow riggers face and his comment of disgust was enough for me

I don't think they should sell beer/alcohol on the trains tbh.

 

[geminisnake]

Long train journeys without beer? Fuck that!

Maybe they could stick a Prohibition carriage on every train for the people who object to their fellow passengers having a few cans...

I'd be fine with that as long as NO-ONE who had been drinking was allowed to use the toilet in that carriage

I don't object to folk having a beer, but living on the same line as pogo(but further south so they've drunk more by my station ) I do object to pissed up wankers making comments, etc.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

The people who are annoying on trains are the ones who get on pissed, after having been drinking all day, particularly if they're in a group of lads. It doesn't matter if there's booze allowed on or not, they'll either be just as annoying or they'll sneak cans on.

People who are just drinking to pass the time with friends or on their own aren't a problem. (And I speak as someone who used to take the train up and down from Edinburgh all the time, the "red can special". By the time you were at the end every table in the smoking carriage would have a good dozen empty cans of Export piled up on it. Oh, and the train from Cambridge to Liverpool Street, with lairy pissed-up teenagers coming home if you were late back from work, sometimes hundreds of the little fuckers having fights.)

It's the same on the tube - the people who are trouble are the ones who are already pissed when they get on. Anyone actually drinking while travelling is either no trouble or, more rarely, a completely wasted alcoholic, in which case they rarely cause any actual harm, they just take up more space than they should and people don't like to sit next to them in case they get cider spilled on them. Irritating but not dangerous.

 

[Guineveretoo]

If this came to pass, how would I get home after a night out in London?

What would I do on long train journeys?

Please don't let anyone ban drunks and drinking on public transport!

 

[pogofish]

If that seems so worrying, maybe you should be asking why you need to go to London & get into that state or if it is even the buisness of of public transport to carry & look after you when you are not fit to conduct yourself in a safe & responsable manner?

BTW, a hell of a lot of folk don't have any access to public transport after a night-out so we have to make out own arrangements to get home or find a place to bunk-up.

 

[George & Bill]

such a ban is intrinsically pointless. if it were simply introduced, with no new staff brought in to help enforce it, it would be observed by people who would never have caused a problem anyway, and ignored by those who do. if it were introduced and new staff brought in to enforce it, the effect would only be the same as if new staff were brought in to enforce existing rules, which already stipulate certain standards of behaviour anyway. again the only effect of the ban itself would be to needlessly infringe on behaviour no-one ever cared about anyway.

put a different way, why legislate against the cause, when it is the occasional effect you object to, inspite of the fact that legislation already exists against such an effect, and even that is not enforced anyway?

its all a bit arse-about-tit, IYAM.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

If they ban drunk people from public transport, how the fuck are people meant to get home after a night out?

Also, it could encourage drunk driving...

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

They should have breathalysers on every door.

If you are over a certain established limit and can therefore be considered "blotto" then the only carriage that will admit you, will be the special "drunk" carriage.

The drunk carriage will have trestle style seats, and small, super-toughened windows.

The walls, floors and ceiling and all the fittings will be tough-yet-bouncy wipe-clean rubber.

The floor will have plenty of drainage channels.

Each wall will be lined with urinals and there will be a jukebox.

At one end will be a kebab-dispensing machine.

Problem solved.

 

[kakuma]

they could have a temperance carriage where only nice people are allowed and then let the rest of the train be a free for all with bottles of vodka and clubs and knives dotted about the 'arena'

 

[trashpony]

I'm starting to get the impression that train travel in Scotland is a considerably more intense experience than it is south of the border...

I think the solution is to ban drinking on trains within Scotland

 

[Roadkill]

I think the solution is to ban drinking on trains within Scotland

That does sound like one solution! One suspects that cross-border train companies would have to ban drinking on all trains though, much as GNER were forced to remove their smoking carriages when the Scottish smoking ban came into effect. Since they'd just spent money refurbishing them they weren't happy...

 

[pogofish]

I think the solution is to ban drinking on trains within Scotland

You had better make that all-points north of Liverpool then. Plenty of Geordies & Scouseers work regularly on the rigs too.

 

[trashpony]

You had better make that all-points north of Liverpool then. Plenty of Geordies & Scouseers work regularly on the rigs too.

Fine by me - I don't go up there very often

 

[pogofish]

If they ban drunk people from public transport, how the fuck are people meant to get home after a night out?

Also, it could encourage drunk driving...

That is your problem to sort-out then, not for the transport provider. Public transport has to cope with all sorts of people, for all sorts of reasons & the only responsability you have is to be in a fit state to use it without being a liability to everyone else. Is that so bloody hard?

If that is the case, then the potential drunk driver should be kept away from cars & any form of PT altogether, as they are clearly a complete liability & unfit to be around the rest of society.

After all, you don't have to drink, do you?

 

[pogofish]

Fine by me - I don't go up there very often

A fair few Dutch, French & German too. Maybe we should spread it out to cover the channel tunnel as well?

 

[beeboo]

such a ban is intrinsically pointless. if it were simply introduced, with no new staff brought in to help enforce it, it would be observed by people who would never have caused a problem anyway, and ignored by those who do. if it were introduced and new staff brought in to enforce it, the effect would only be the same as if new staff were brought in to enforce existing rules, which already stipulate certain standards of behaviour anyway. again the only effect of the ban itself would be to needlessly infringe on behaviour no-one ever cared about anyway.

put a different way, why legislate against the cause, when it is the occasional effect you object to, inspite of the fact that legislation already exists against such an effect, and even that is not enforced anyway?

its all a bit arse-about-tit, IYAM.

That's what I wanted to say, but wasn't feeling very coherent.

 

[Roadkill]

I think some people are throwing the baby out with the bathwater here. In the understandable wish not to travel with people who are pissed and lairy, or who get drunk en route, it's starting to sound as if anyone who's even mildy inebriated should be barred from using public transport.

Mmm, that'd be fun. People would either only be able to go out within walking distance of home, or get taxis everywhere. Can't see that working, especially in London.

And why should people have to be restricted in that way? The vast majority of people who have a drink on public transport, or who use trains and buses to get home after a night out, don't cause trouble. Why should they suffer because of a few people's stupidity?

 

[pogofish]

Mmm, that'd be fun. People would either only be able to go out within walking distance of home, or get taxis everywhere.

Why should they suffer because of a few people's stupidity?

For much of the country, that is pretty much the reality tho.

As ever, it seems to be the idiots who justify a need to have their behaviour bounded by legislation, rather than responsable folk.

 

[Roadkill]

For much of the country, that is pretty much the reality tho.

Not really. Granted public transport is shit across much of the country, but in every major town and city there's the odd night bus, and loads of people get late evening trains home after evenings out.

Besides, the fact that public transport provision is sparse in some areas isn't an argument for reducing it, or restricting its capacity, in areas where it's currently good.