Ban drunks and drinking on trains

[RubberBuccaneer]

Except that I've seen them discard the drink-ban on football trains when the "fans" decide that getting a nice hot black coffee & spilling it over the opposition is more fun.

Also, even on supposedly dry trains, the staff will often still sell booze on a "you didn't get this from me" basis.

Football pissheads & oilrig workers are about the worst problem here, so that is Saturdays & Wednesdays for the Football whilst the riggers go the whole time (although Friday/Monday is by far the worst) & don't do themselves any favours due to the rufty-tufty macho -man culture that still permeates the biz. One way, they are "enjoying" their last holdall-full of booze on the way to two weeks dry offshore, whilst the other way, they are just back onshore & the first priority is a good skinfull & whoever they can pull.

No, no problem with banning booze on trains whatsoever! Although again, I've got no problem with a responsable drunk either Or football for that matter.

Hmmm - I was banned from drinking on a train while the person opposite me was allowed

 

[editor]

I was reading this article this morning and it struck me - one of the reasons why I use the car so much for long journeys instead of the train is that there is a real chance I will have to put up with obnoxious drunks harassing me and other passengers.

Trips made by train=thousands
Amount of times I've had to "put up with obnoxious drunks harassing me" = so few times I can't even remember.

 

[Masseuse]

As for them being "inconvenienced" - well that's all it is. A minor inconvenience. Like not smoking on the tube or on a flight. Because it makes the surroundings generally nicer for the majority of people.

 

[Roadkill]

I've not, but I've heard about those services. 'Vomit comets,' the staff call them, apparently...

Maye if they're that packed the train company should bre lengthening the trains and laying on more services? That'd make more difference than just banning drinking.

 

[trashpony]

I was really referring to the overground, but you surprise me: I usually feel safer on the tube than on surface trains late at night, just because everything's well lit and there are usually people about.

Tbh I think we're at cross-purposes here up to a point. I get the impression some people are just talking about London - in which case I'd argue that public transport in London is safer than walking down dodgy back streets at night, although none of it is as safe as it should be - but I was thinking about this more nationally. Which is why I rubbished LD Rudeboy's suggestion of banning all food and drink from trains, since I can't see any reaosn to stop people having a cuppa and a sandwich on, say, a London-York express. Especially since we can't have a fag any more(!).

You're not a woman - you'd be surprised how often women get assaulted on trains and tubes - for most of us it's a fact of life we don't discuss that often.

I take your point about the distinction between the tube and the overground but from what I know, I think it's the commuter trains that are the worst - the ones going to Kent and the home counties are when you get trouble. The long distance ones tend to be alright. And I haven't said I want to ban food and drink at all - the only thing that gets me through London to Cornwall is a few beers!

 

[RubberBuccaneer]

Smoking was far worse, and frigging MP3 players and mobiles

 

[editor]

I'm sure some people can drink responsibly on a train. But is it that much of a sacrifice?

Yes. Why the fuck should I give up my right to enjoy a relaxing drink on the train just because a near-microscopic percentage of people can't handle their booze?

Why not ban mobiles too because some people are too loud and irritating on them? And ban screaming children too because they've caused far more irritation on train journeys to me over the years than any drunk.

 

[Masseuse]

Maye if they're that packed the train company should bre lengthening the trains and laying on more services?

Gosh, you think?

I must tell them, they probably don't realise.

While I'm at it I'll tell them they probably ought to do more safety checks and increase staff pay.

 

[Roadkill]

As for them being "inconvenienced" - well that's all it is. A minor inconvenience. Like not smoking on the tube or on a flight. Because it makes the surroundings generally nicer for the majority of people.

It makes no difference to most people, most of the time.

Your late-night London-Ramsgate service might have a problem with obnoxious drunks: get onto the train company and get them to do something about it.

My London-Hull weekend train (as an example - it's the service I use most outside London, I think) usually has a few people aving a drink, but they're never a problem IME.

No reason why a solution to a 'problem' on services around London should be applied to elsewhere where the issue might not even arise.

 

[LDR]

Why not ban mobiles too because some people are too loud and irritating on them? And ban screaming children too because they've caused far more irritation on train journeys to me over the years than any drunk.

Hear, hear. I agree. What a good idea, etc, etc.

Now you're talking sense.

 

[Roadkill]

You're not a woman - you'd be surprised how often women get assaulted on trains and tubes - for most of us it's a fact of life we don't discuss that often.

NO, I'm not a woman and I can't comment on your experience - which sounds pretty bad. All I would say is that I don't really see how stopping people drinking is going to help, given that there'd be nothing to stop people who already are drunk from using trains.

I take your point about the distinction between the tube and the overground but from what I know, I think it's the commuter trains that are the worst - the ones going to Kent and the home counties are when you get trouble. The long distance ones tend to be alright. And I haven't said I want to ban food and drink at all - the only thing that gets me through London to Cornwall is a few beers!

Like Massy's London-Ramsgate services then.

Sounds to me as if this is a problem that's largely limited to middle-distance services on particular lines, late in the evening. So let's think about what measures could be used to make things better on those services, rather than going for some heavy-handed, knee-jerk blanket ban (not that you've argued for one anyway, of course ).

 

[Masseuse]

Yes. Why the fuck should I give up my right to enjoy a relaxing drink on the train just because a near-microscopic percentage of people can't handle their booze?

Why not ban mobiles too because some people are too loud and irritating on them? And ban screaming children too because they've caused far more irritation on train journeys to me over the years than any drunk.

You can't ban children, irritating though the babycry is they can't help being babies. etc.

Some trains do have a "family" carriage where all people accompanied by kids can sit rather than spreading their wailing through the train. This is a good idea i think.

Some trains likewise have a couple of "quiet" carriages where the use of mobiles is prohibited. This too is a nice way of doing things.

And can't you find another way to relax? Perhaps you could meditate.

 

[trashpony]

Sounds to me as if this is a problem that's largely limited to middle-distance services on particular lines, late in the evening. So let's think about what measures could be used to make things better on those services, rather than going for some heavy-handed, knee-jerk blanket ban (not that you've argued for one anyway, of course ).

Glad you've noticed

 

[editor]

And can't you find another way to relax?

I'm an adult and as such I'm entitled to have a quiet can of beer wherever I like, thanks.

And there are already regulations in place for removing disruptive people off trains, so there's no need to turn every train into a travelling advert for the Temperance Society.

 

[Masseuse]

I'm an adult and as such I'm entitled to have a quiet can of beer wherever I like, thanks.

And there are already regulations in place for removing disruptive people off trains, so there's no need to turn every train into a travelling advert for the Temperance Society.

Oh well, if you're entitled then I won't argue.

 

[editor]

Oh well, if you're entitled then I won't argue.

Indeed I am.

 

[RubberBuccaneer]

Is this still the standard tipple?

 

[beeboo]

This has been discussed before:

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=137450

You can't ban drunks on trains. On a late train out of London or any other city centre on a Friday or Saturday night you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who isn't drunk. Safety and security on public transport at night is obviously a serious issue but I don't think there is anyway that any kind of restriction on drinking or being drunk on local transport is going to have any impact on safety, as most people have done all the consumption before boarding.

You could ban the sale of alcohol on regional and intercity services. But people would still bring their own alcohol onto the train for long journeys - in my experience people who plan to get properly tanked up bring their own drink with them. It'd be completely impractical to try to enforce a ban on any consumption of alcohol on public transport.

IMO one of the pleasures of a long distance train journey is being able to relax with a drink. Some train companies (eg GNER) are now making a big deal about the variety and quality of wine etc they have available. I think the majority of people appreciate the opportunity to have a drink on a long train journey.

Other than safety most people's arguments seem to come down to 'other people are annoying'. Well, yuh-huh, they are, you've got to live with it.

 

[pogofish]

Their right to be pissed, on a train or elsewhere. If they're a nuisance the guard and the BTP chuck them off. That's how it works, and it works fine most of the time. Let's just leave things as they are.


Incidents on trains are extremely rare.

Err, we don't have proper guards on First Trains any more, they are all "stewards" now & don't engage much with the problem. As for the BTP, there is a grand total of 7 of them (I know two) on regular patrol covering the entire east of Scotland/Fife area - ie everything in the triangle bounded by Edinburgh/Perth/Inverness & the North Sea. Typically, it takes them several days to respond to a complaint, so I'd suggest a lot of what happens goes unreported.

I'd question that. The main reason I more or less gave-up on trains some years back was because of the continual trouble on many of them. A few weeks back, I did take the train for a change.

The journey out at the crack of dawn was fine & almost convinced me things were good again. However, the way back was completely marred by violent, threatening football (several teams) pissheads roaming up down the train, looking for fights - one spent ages trying to bait me - I'd committed the crime of not wearing "the hoops" you see. Any modrately attractive women had no shortage of pissed-up suitors trying to chat them up, conveyor-style. This only stopped for stations when they ran to the doors to yell abuse & chuck debris at the fellow "fans" on the platform. When we got through to Arbroath, there was a full-on running battle going-on on the station platform. I doubt there was even room for that at Dundee, the platform was so packed. Only by Montrose, 3 or 4 stations up the line, was it safe enough for many of the people afraid to get-off at the other stops to try again from a Southbound train.

If you want a drink & don't bother people, fine but you surely can't be that surprised when folk like that who take the piss get your rights restricted too.

 

[Roadkill]

Three weeks ago I got a Saturday morning train to Exeter. I moved out of the 'quiet coach' because it was full of sober(ish) but loud and unpleasant football fans. They gave me a bit of verbal when I moved carriages so I could read in peace. I settled two carriages further down, opposite a group of lads who were playing cards quietly, whilst busily polishing off a crate of Fosters.

Seems to me that, all too often, football fans are a problem whether they're drunk or not, and I don't see how stopping people from taking beer onto trains is going to make much difference. Except to the majority who can enjoy a drink without getting shitfaced and upsetting others. FWIW I can't remember the last time I drank anything stronger than coffee on a train, but I don't see why others should be prevented from having a beer if they wish.

So it all comes back to enforcement of what rules are already there, in which case it's up to the BTP to put more officers on stations at times when trouble arises and the train companies to put more guards on trains.

 

[beeboo]

However, the way back was completely marred by violent, threatening football (several teams) pissheads roaming up down the train, looking for fights - one spent ages trying to bait me - I'd committed the crime of not wearing "the hoops" you see. Any modrately attractive women had no shortage of pissed-up suitors trying to chat them up, conveyor-style. This only stopped for stations when they ran to the doors to yell abuse & chuck debris at the fellow "fans" on the platform. When we got through to Arbroath, there was a full-on running battle going-on on the station platform. I doubt there was even room for that at Dundee, the platform was so packed. Only by Montrose, 3 or 4 stations up the line, was it safe enough for many of the people afraid to get-off at the other stops to try again from a Southbound train.

That sounds dire.

Was alcohol being sold on the train?

And do you think any ban on drinking/being drunk on the train would make any difference to this kind of behaviour, in practice?

 

[bluestreak]

look, i think we're all looking at a too microscopic picture here. the problem is clearly not drinkers, it's people. the sooner we ban people, the sooner the world will be a better place for everyone.

 

[LDR]

look, i think we're all looking at a too microscopic picture here. the problem is clearly not drinkers, it's people. the sooner we ban people, the sooner the world will be a better place for everyone.

Exactly!.

BIN/BAN PEOPLE NOW.

 

[pogofish]

I don't know as the trains were too busy for me to get to the shop. I'd taken a sandwich & a couple of soft drinks in my small rucksac tho. In the morning, the BTP were setting-up barriers at Aberdeen & that is where they tend to confiscate any booze from matchgoers, so most of them try to drink it all before they get there. Also, in the past I've found it no problem to get booze on trains even if a ban is in force, they just tell you to say you didn't get it from them if you get caught.

I doubt it would deter the absolute hardcore but IME (also from once living right beside a premier-league stadium) a lot of the trouble at matches/on trains is of the mee-too variety & yes, being pissed is a major factor & a lot of it wouldn't happen if the participants were sober.

For the riggers & their antics, yes it would make a difference as that is mostly just full-on slobbering pissheadedness.

 

[rich!]

Surely the solution is simple:

ban sober people from trains.



Alright, more seriously, have a proper bar in the train, with decent beer and all. Then have the licensee of the bar held responsible for drunkenness as per usual legal procedures.

eta:

or, of course, rather than addressing the lack of policing issue, just ban everyone who might be naughty...

 

[Hollis]

Alright, more seriously, have a proper bar in the train, with decent beer and all. Then have the licensee of the bar held responsible for drunkenness as per usual legal procedures.

...

Definately the way forward mate.

 

[Yossarian]

Long train journeys without beer? Fuck that!

Maybe they could stick a Prohibition carriage on every train for the people who object to their fellow passengers having a few cans...

 

[pogofish]

Maybe they could stick a Prohibition carriage on every train for the people who object to their fellow passengers having a few cans...

Maybe they could stick a livestock-car on the back for all those who think making life hell for everyone else is an intrinsic part of enjoying a drink?

Equally, if you can't sit still for a few hours without some booze in your gut, maybe you should be asking yorself some harder questions?

 

[Yossarian]

Touchy! What are you, a fucking Presbyterian or something? Some people just don't know how to travel...

 

[pogofish]

Not in the least & I don't have any problem with anyone enjoying a few drinks (or even more) so long as they do so responsably.

I do have a low tolerance for pisshead wankers - mostly learned from bitter experience I'm afraid.