Bali bombers executed.
- Thread starter Sasaferrato
- Start date
Shippou-Sensei
4:1:2.5
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Yes, there is.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
I think he's trying to make the point that killing humans is wrong or something.
You're getting warmer.
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
So, let's hear it then.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Here's the message: by summarily executing 202 innocent people, the bali bombers forfeited their right to live.
Shippou-Sensei
4:1:2.5
in my opinion killing is wrong, no matter who does it.
i understand killing in anger but that doesn't mean i approve of it
an individual may lose themselves to hate but a society shouldn't
i understand killing in anger but that doesn't mean i approve of it
an individual may lose themselves to hate but a society shouldn't
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
Is it wrong for a person to kill in self-defence, or for a soldier, in defence of his/her country? In short, are you an absolute pacifist? Because only an absolute pacifist believes killing is wrong: many people say that, but what they actually mean is "murder (unlawful killing) is wrong".
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
I'm in favour of a trial, by jury, in an impartial system with the proper checks and balances.
Shippou-Sensei
4:1:2.5
yes it's wrong
some times it is the only viable option (such as in self defence) but it still doesn't make it right t simply makes it understandable, i would personally kill someone to save my own life but i would still consider it a regrettable action
yes some time your hand can be forced but in this situation this is not the case the persons involved were incarcerated their deaths do not lead to anything
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
They made 200 people dead. They have no business being alive any longer.
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
Ditto. I reluctantly support capital punishment now, but only in the specific circumstances you list, which is why I disagree with the execution of the Bali Bombers. Since laws are universal, you can't legislate for individual cases: the death penalty will be applied in cases of far less severity. Equality under the law, however evil a particular convict may be.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
What I'm in favour of, is the death penalty for the Bali bombers. If the people executed weren't in fact the bombers, then I of course disagree with their execution.
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
In which case, should people who kill in self-defense be convicted and imprisoned?
They lead to justice. The bombers forfeited their right to life by committing indiscriminate murder after premeditation in the extreme. They chose execution.
Shippou-Sensei
4:1:2.5
but if only one person died that would be ok?
the number doesn't matter the principle is the same
what they did was disgusting unforgivable possibly but that is still no excuse for ending a human life in my opinion
yes if i had lost someone i may wish to kill them but that is a humans failing and shouldn't be societies failing too
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
What you say is logical, but how much of life have you found to be logical so far?
Shippou-Sensei
4:1:2.5
not if their hand had been forced it may be wrong but i would not punish someone for saving themselves
how is that justice? it's murder, it may be the murder of dispicable people but it is still the unnesacery taking of life
and no actions in my opinion forfeit the right to life
these people were prisoners they could have been punished humanly they could have been taught, educated, they could have possibly come to regret their actions or at worst simply kept as an example of where hate leads you but they weren't, they were killed. and i don't think sociaty should do that
Shippou-Sensei
4:1:2.5
trying to be logical is what stops us hanging from trees screaming "keep away from my bananas"
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Trying to always be logical, is like trying to imitate robots. We aren't robots, because we possess hearts. And sometimes our hearts tell us things that are right, but not logical.
Shippou-Sensei
4:1:2.5
i'm not a robot and i don't think it's right
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
If self-defence killings aren't punished then ipso facto they're not wrong in law. If the law isn't based on right and wrong, what is it based on?
Calling an execution "murder" is a contradiction in terms since murder is by definition a deliberate and unlawful killing.
My reluctant support for capital punishment stems from humanity: locking prisoners up for decades, let alone for life, is cruel and unusual. Abolitionists have never found a satisfactory alternative for the death penalty.
If these men had remained unrepentant, they would have to have remained gaoled for public safety; in any case, their repentance may well have been false; and even if they were repentant, so vile was their crime that justice demands an extraordinary punishment. If due process is followed, execution is the only humane sentence I can think of.
Now there's a question.
Shippou-Sensei
4:1:2.5
i don't belive that just because it is unpunished is is not wrong. no matter what it is still a regrettable action and a last resort. when a life is lost something wrong happened.
how is death better than life imprisonment?
for me a life in prison is better than death and i wouldn't want anyone else making the decision for me. perhaps ask the prisoner if they want to die, some sort of prison euthinasia scheme but for fuck sake don't think your killing people for thier own good with out giving them the choice
how is death better than life imprisonment?
for me a life in prison is better than death and i wouldn't want anyone else making the decision for me. perhaps ask the prisoner if they want to die, some sort of prison euthinasia scheme but for fuck sake don't think your killing people for thier own good with out giving them the choice
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
Indeed, but the wrong is commited by the dead criminal, not the poor wretch forced to kill. If the law openly excuses wrong acts then the law becomes an ass.
To my mind being locked in a tiled box for the remainder of your days is barbaric, but that's by the by, since the convict had a choice: don't commit the crime. They know what the punishment is. Execution is in effect a form of assisted suicide.
Besides which, after they commit murder their choice is not the sole consideration. Justice demands that they keep an appointment with someone like this fine fellow.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Maybe give the prisoner just as much choice, as he gave the murder victim.
Shippou-Sensei
4:1:2.5
i am very unconvinced by your argument
Execution is in effect a form of assisted suicide... that is just nuts
Execution is in effect a form of assisted suicide... that is just nuts
Shippou-Sensei
4:1:2.5
because lowering yourself to their level is the right thing to do?
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
You murder, you hang. Murderer knows this but chooses to murder regardless. At the very least, the murderer know there's a high chance that they'll loose their own life in payment.
And if you don't buy that, the choice argument is undeniable.
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