Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
The Bali bombers were executed by firing squad at 17:15 tonight.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7717819.stm
Sad business.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7717819.stm
Sad business.
Bali bombers executed.
- Thread starter Sasaferrato
- Start date
purves grundy
ambient clown remix
When the likes of them are executed, I have to force myself to recall the immorality of capital punishment. But recall it and believe it I do.
Ditto.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
I think that capital punishment can, in specific cases, be merited.
The death of anyone is no cause for celebration, but they were responsible for the deaths of 202 people.
The death of anyone is no cause for celebration, but they were responsible for the deaths of 202 people.
claphamboy
The wheels on the bus go round and round....
JHE
.
Nothing is gained by executing these Islamist murderers. There will be no deterrent effect.
The Islamoshites wanted to be executed. They believed that they had done God's work and, by dying for doing God's work, they earn a place in paradise.
They have many think-alikes who will also be convinced that the killers are heaven-bound shaheeds and will be, if anything, even keener to follow in their footsteps than they would have been if the killers had been left to spend the rest of their wretched lives in prison.
The Islamoshites wanted to be executed. They believed that they had done God's work and, by dying for doing God's work, they earn a place in paradise.
They have many think-alikes who will also be convinced that the killers are heaven-bound shaheeds and will be, if anything, even keener to follow in their footsteps than they would have been if the killers had been left to spend the rest of their wretched lives in prison.
T & P
|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
The deliberate killing of a human being is arguably the most repugnant and abhorrent act a person can carry.
The most deliberate and calculated the killing, the more despicable it is.
And as such, I see little difference between state-sanctioned murders and those of individuals or groups carried out for a variety of reasons.
Even if the condemned didn't want to die and be martyred, it is still sickening and completely unjustifiable for anyone, even (specially) governments, to have a provision in place for needlessly killing a human being.
Maybe if one of my loved ones had been killed in the bombing I would think different. Though I'd like to think not.
The most deliberate and calculated the killing, the more despicable it is.
And as such, I see little difference between state-sanctioned murders and those of individuals or groups carried out for a variety of reasons.
Even if the condemned didn't want to die and be martyred, it is still sickening and completely unjustifiable for anyone, even (specially) governments, to have a provision in place for needlessly killing a human being.
Maybe if one of my loved ones had been killed in the bombing I would think different. Though I'd like to think not.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
Bush and Blair killed a lot more than that.
Executing them would be far more effective in preventing a repeat performance.
Islamic nutjobs aren't going to be deterred from murdering people by this. On the other hand if politicans were held to the same standard as the Nuremburg tribunals, they'd think twice about starting illegal wars of aggression.
turing test
Nearly Toowrong
If there was some deterrence I would be all for it. Since there is not, keeping them locked up until they die would have been better.
extra dry
Happy to be here
It doesn't really matter with these types..dead they are martyrs...alive they are living inspirations to other easily led, young, frustrated, angry, wannabe martyrs...you can only win once you have tackled the socio-economic, religious, political situations in the country/world.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
I'm just wondering here, but if Blair was tried under the Nuremburg standards and executed, would it be by hanging or as a former prime minister would it be an axe?
It's a short boat ride from Westminster to Traitors' Gate after all ...
And given that he committed his crimes while selling us out to an odious foreign power, Traitors' Gate seems like the right place for his last moments.
It's a short boat ride from Westminster to Traitors' Gate after all ...
And given that he committed his crimes while selling us out to an odious foreign power, Traitors' Gate seems like the right place for his last moments.
turing test
Nearly Toowrong
Naw I want to know who gets hung/chopped first. Bush or Blair?
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
Well, as signatories to the Geneva Convention and the Convention on Torture, I'm pretty sure we could try Bush too, especially given the legislation he passed to avoid responsibility for such crimes, which makes it much easier to argue for prosecuting him outside the US. I'm afraid he would just get life though, because as far as I know execution is still only on the books for treason. Which Blair is clearly guilty of, but which doesn't apply to Bush as he is a foreigner.
strung out
💩 🤣 🍆 💦 🧐 👻 🐝 🐈⬛
its not
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
Yeah, I know. I looked it up and Jack Straw took it off the books in 1998. Nice career move Jack, given that Blair was going to go and commit treason shortly.
You have no concept of what these bastards are like.
They Made it clear that they were happy to have killed and would do so again given half a chance.
Their mother (nasty old bitch) is happy they killed so many justified by saying that they only killed bad people.
Their fucking idiot mates are planning more mass murder with one 500kg shipment of explosives found last week.
Bollocks to human rights. Give me the right to walk down the street without some cunt blowing you up over their right to live any day.
Dead and deserved it was too. The only pity is that there is no law allowing their mates to get a bullet in advance.
I ask you now if your bother or mother is the next victim of these idiots that corrupt Islam to allow mass murder will you be so nice to them or pick up the gun and blast the bastard yourself.
I tell you now if they were ever to hurt my family I would be happy to snuff them out myself and sleep well after it.
They Made it clear that they were happy to have killed and would do so again given half a chance.
Their mother (nasty old bitch) is happy they killed so many justified by saying that they only killed bad people.
Their fucking idiot mates are planning more mass murder with one 500kg shipment of explosives found last week.
Bollocks to human rights. Give me the right to walk down the street without some cunt blowing you up over their right to live any day.
Dead and deserved it was too. The only pity is that there is no law allowing their mates to get a bullet in advance.
I ask you now if your bother or mother is the next victim of these idiots that corrupt Islam to allow mass murder will you be so nice to them or pick up the gun and blast the bastard yourself.
I tell you now if they were ever to hurt my family I would be happy to snuff them out myself and sleep well after it.
purves grundy
ambient clown remix
Nicely short-sighted. By saying bollocks to human rights, you help to remove limitations on what the state can do to people. You give the holders of the formidable powers of the modern state carte blanche to use them in whatever way they deem necessary for 'security'. A perfect environment for dictators and terrorists alike.
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
Do you think if they were sharing a cell, that Tony would still be George's bitch?
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
Difficult to say. Perhaps they'd just pray together or something. I doubt either one can get it up without looking at pictures of child war deaths.
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
This is what John Stuart Mill had to say on the matter (paraphrased by me in the other thread):
"Does fining a criminal show want of respect for property, or imprisoning him, for personal freedom? Just as unreasonable is it to think that to take the life of a man who has taken that of another is to show want of regard for human life. We show, on the contrary, most emphatically our regard for it, by the adoption of a rule that he who violates that right in another forfeits it for himself, and that while no other crime that he can commit deprives him of his right to live, this shall."
Execution of a guilty man after due process of law has no relation whatsoever to the indiscriminate murder of hundreds of innocent people.
However, I'd only support an execution after an adversarial jury trial, so very, very reluctantly, I'd have opposed it in this case.
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
Not even that now. Capital punishment was abolished for treason, piracy, and a few military offences (mutiny, in the main) in the Crime and Disorder Act 1998.
dylanredefined
Not a house elf a tiger
Probably agree with this
. Should feel state sanctioned killing is wrong ,except I cant see the point of keeping these people alive.
Like I keep saying: cash 'em in for transplantable organs. Get some value out of the fuckers... Either that or sentence them to hard labour for the rest of their natural life. Death is their ideal, easy way out, like when the fox throws Brer Rabbit into the briar patch...Probably agree with this
Azrael: First let me say that I love Mill. His words on personal freedom happen to be one of my personal favorites and I quote him often.
That said, your take on execution is a bit simplistic. Cause and Effect come to mind. Capital Punishment as practiced in Western Nations is a joke. 15 years of appeals and then MAYBE so that there is no real deterrant. Practiced elsewhere though...Look at the murder rate in Arabia. Look at the rate of armed robbbery and rape. It works.
As much as I hate Arabia, their system of punishment is right and exact and I think it is absolutely correct, IF a person has been proven beynd a doubt. As practiced by them it DOES leave a bit to be desired, but in my thinking were it combined with say DNA evidence absolutely perfect.
As for the OP...I live on Mindanao in the Philippines and so am all too familiar with JI, the group to which these 2 men belonged. It operates camps in this country and has cooperated in several terrorist acts. I am glad those 2 died, only wish they had been killed long ago and made to suffer like the many people they have made to suffer.
People in the West are so easy with justice. They face an odd bombing, every few years. Live with the threat daily and see what your take is on it. See if you can offer philosphical diatribes as you pick up body parts.
That said, your take on execution is a bit simplistic. Cause and Effect come to mind. Capital Punishment as practiced in Western Nations is a joke. 15 years of appeals and then MAYBE so that there is no real deterrant. Practiced elsewhere though...Look at the murder rate in Arabia. Look at the rate of armed robbbery and rape. It works.
As much as I hate Arabia, their system of punishment is right and exact and I think it is absolutely correct, IF a person has been proven beynd a doubt. As practiced by them it DOES leave a bit to be desired, but in my thinking were it combined with say DNA evidence absolutely perfect.
As for the OP...I live on Mindanao in the Philippines and so am all too familiar with JI, the group to which these 2 men belonged. It operates camps in this country and has cooperated in several terrorist acts. I am glad those 2 died, only wish they had been killed long ago and made to suffer like the many people they have made to suffer.
People in the West are so easy with justice. They face an odd bombing, every few years. Live with the threat daily and see what your take is on it. See if you can offer philosphical diatribes as you pick up body parts.
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
Which "philosophical diatribe"? You appear to support capital punishment, so you must mean my precondition of a jury trial? If so, that objection is entirely pragmatic, and I see no reason why a properly impaneled jury wouldn't have convicted the bombers, rendering emotive comments about picking up body parts null and void. (Not that they're helpful in any case -- I could make an equally emotive retort about executing innocent people.)
And what relevance do appeals post-conviction have to trial by jury?
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
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