'Baby P' dies of child abuse - photos now released
- Thread starter Eva Luna
- Start date
Reg Perrin
In the Toon
Sorry, EPO's Emergency protection orders (which the Police could and should exercise) LA, Local Authorities, CO's Care Orders, either interim (temporary) or full (until otherwise lapsed or discharged).
If you were responsible and you tried your best.. nothing would be coming.
Reg Perrin
In the Toon
Oop 'ere in the Norf we're bustin at the seams trying to manage Child Protection cases. Cyclicle practice fads, crap management, lack of funds and resources and a "pass the buck" mentality has scuppered any progress from the Laming Report. It's gonna get worse, believe me.
Reg Perrin
In the Toon
Oh, I forgot to mention the National Computerised system.....ticky boxes...shite
Looks that way. Still, it is weird how it's happened in Haringey twice in such quick succession..
icky boxes, my ex calls them. How you can reduce service provision to a list of tick boxes? I don't know.
Reg Perrin
In the Toon
Could be the workers, could be the demographics. Shit knows how those guys are coping with the influx of immigrants and cultural issues. Plus....I' wouldn't fuckin work there, would you? they've probably got a rookie workforce working at the hardest end of the job.
Mind you, having said that, I bet the SS have improved their act while the Police and Medics have done fuck all. It doesn't count in the end, the SW take the stick. I can't believe that that Doctor isn't vilified to the same extent as the SW. The SW's can only act on their diagnoses!!!! And act on the Solicitors advice!!!! talk about scapegoats....
I certainly think the medical team have a lot to answer for... and you're right you'd expect the council to have failsafes for their SW staff in light of Laming... but not so the police or medical staff.
But what particualrly bugs me is that it's happened twice just a few streets apart... how fucking common is this? Is it happening every few streets?
Reg Perrin
In the Toon
The whole point of Laming was that it beefed up the Medics and police responsibility. In reality IMO all that happened was that Health Visitors started doubling up in Case Conferences and started shouting "Care Orders" at the slightest evidence of harm, the Police just carried on regardless. They do or they don't. they still have a different agenda. Crime. As far as SW's go, I despair at how shit it is now. Up here IMO the fad of Solution Focused Therapy and "Signs of Safety" is a load of utter crap. If you want explanations of what these are, I'll do it after work....I'm knackered now.
Lanming pointed out the fundamental flaws in communication between levels of staff within all three major organisations. Each can do something to beef themselves up internally but still there remains a problem in communication.
That would be good.
trashpony
Hag
Yes please. I'm interested. I don't blame any group of people in particular (and certainly I think SWs get an outrageous amount of stick), but it's obvious the system is failing children and that the steps that were supposed to prevent this happening ever again post Victoria Climbie have dismally failed.
happie chappie
Well-Known Member
I’m a full-time trade union official who represents, amongst others, social workers. In fact, I’m representing a social worker in children’s social services later today in a capability hearing.
In general, I agree with Reg Perrin’s comments. Like most other people, this case makes me very angry although I do admit that I don’t know the full facts, and so it is a little difficult to comment.
One thing that did strike me was the position of Haringey’s Director of Children’s Services, Sharon Shoesmsith. When Russell Brand and Jonathon Ross left those phone messages on Andrew Sach’s phone, the Controller of BBC Radio 2, Lesley Douglas, resigned even though she was not directly responsible. However she did the honorable thing as the most senior manager.
I do hope Ms Shoesmsith takes note.
Happie Chappie
In general, I agree with Reg Perrin’s comments. Like most other people, this case makes me very angry although I do admit that I don’t know the full facts, and so it is a little difficult to comment.
One thing that did strike me was the position of Haringey’s Director of Children’s Services, Sharon Shoesmsith. When Russell Brand and Jonathon Ross left those phone messages on Andrew Sach’s phone, the Controller of BBC Radio 2, Lesley Douglas, resigned even though she was not directly responsible. However she did the honorable thing as the most senior manager.
I do hope Ms Shoesmsith takes note.
Happie Chappie
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
Neuter everyone and introduce Parent Licences, only way to be sure...
Oh yes, I forget, it's Social Work that we're talking about so no matter how shockingly inept and negligant they've been, they can't possibly be responsible as it's clearly a failure of society, instead of applying punishment, they should be sent off on a ludicrously overpriced outward bound course to deal with "issues" or sent off on a foreign holiday.
We can't even begin to consider a custodial sentence until their 59th offence against the safety of children.
Why do we bother? How many cases do these idiots miss that don't end up in the papers?
Horrific story, horrific people. Having children should not be a right.
trashpony
Hag
I think you're being a wee bit reductionist. Of course it falls to the parent to protect the child in the first instance. But sadly some parents are unfit, as well you know. There should be adequate measures in place to prevent a child being so badly abused that it dies.
I speak to social workers sometimes, through my work.
I think that a lot of the difficulty arises from the fact that they usually go into that field because they care, which makes them liable to end up being overloaded because the same caring that has them doing it in the first place is what stops them from saying "no" to the next additional case...with the inevitable result.
If the blameful finger is to be pointed, it needs to point at the chain of management which, from what I can tell, pretty universally tolerates this kind of overloading. Perhaps the workers at the coalface should know to say "no", but if they're not, then it isn't OK for their line managers, or THEIR line managers - and they ought to know - to continue passing work down the line and just hope that it all works out. It won't, and when things don't work out in social work, they can fail to work out in a catastrophic way. Not good.
_angel_
.
This is so worrying. I can see people like you eventually getting their own way and basically rooting out of anyone who isn't a married middle class professional from having kids. Or anyone with disabilities running in the family 'just to be sure'... or lower *IQ* (whatever that is). No thanks!
internetstalker
Get naked!
This story makes me feel cold and ill
It makes me want to weep, how someone could do such a thing to a helpless innocent baby?
Perry Farrell once 'said some people should die'
The parents in this instance deserve a slow and painful death
It makes me want to weep, how someone could do such a thing to a helpless innocent baby?
Perry Farrell once 'said some people should die'
The parents in this instance deserve a slow and painful death
Eva Luna
Well-Known Member
How about drowned in cold water, since you wish you use my lifestory against me to support your argument?
Oh you've edited that out, like before.
But moving on from that, I think yes wider society should help more than it often does, but for me the major blame lies with the parents.
No I dont' think it would go that way. Most parenting is 'good enough' whatever class people are. If there is sometimes a class issue in social work its middle class social workers who are because of guilt about their own backgrounds giving bad and abusive parents too much slack.
Couple this with the fact that many social workers from this background may have gone from school to university to training to social work without any intervening period of having to rub along with different people in a work and social setting. Maybe the answer is nobody should work in child protection before the age of 35 and candidates must show that they have been in the world not just in acedemia.
Add in a dose of liberal guilt where the family concerned comes from a minority whether it be ethnic or religious and you have a recipie for disaster with social workers fearing to voice concerns about a particular child in case they are called racist.
Eva Luna
Well-Known Member
But this is the thing here - Social Workers are given cases that need attention - they do not seek out those cases. The culpability for the existence of the cases is down to society at large. Social Workers are not scouting the streets for business - other professionals are bringing them in and often the buck stops with them imo.
But here's the rub for me - why are people beating each other up such that social workers are needed??? Why are the powerful flexing their muscles in private over the powerless??
...social services blamed.Im watching the news and thats all they're on about. I realise that the involvement of the wider populace should afford greater protection, but what about the people that actually did it?
I think that this is fair comment, although I'll probably get flamed for saying this like the last time I involved myself in a discussion about a murdered child.
Of course bad errors were made in this case, like most of those where children die at the hands of parents. But some of the commentary that we've had suggests that there is some moral equivalence between the professionals who made errors of judgment and the evil scum that killed this child. Like Eva, I can't understand that at all.
Eva Luna
Well-Known Member
I dont agree with this really.
When you sit with a person who has so many problems you dont even know where to start - ie their childhood, their chaotic lifestyle, the fact that they choose to spend their money on trainers and booze rather than beds for the children to sleep in, they move from one partner to the next, etc etc, (many problems borne of hardship I might add) - where on earth do you start??? I dont think anybody's sitting there thinking, 'well poor you, you're from a different class to me so I'd better not say anything.'
What punishment would you advocate? Public flaying?
And as I understand it, this child never was in care. There was a lot of stuff in the Metro this morning asking why social workers didn't take the child away. Social workers do not have power just to take a child away. Police officers do (section 46 of the Children Act), but social workers need a court order.
I kinda agree with you. Will these woman be allowed to have other children? Yes, if she wants, there's nothing in our law to stop her. Perhaps they should sterilise her.
I agree the real monsters here are those who actually did the killing and I hope that they get their just desserts in a quite corner of prison at the hands of other prisoners because they probably damn well wont get an appropriate sentence from the courts. Oxygen thieves the lot of them.
To kill your child is so far away from what is human that it beggars belief.
However, the taxpayer pays for professionals to spot, deal with and help children who are at risk from abuse at home and in this case Harringey social services have failed to give value for money in a spectacular and tragic way.
Its galling to think that Brand and Ross's childish prank meant that the guv'nors resigned but in this case the head of Harringey's social services will either keep her job as if nothing has happened or quietly slip away into an ever better paid job elesewhere. In situations like this it is obvious that senior management has failed to do their job so the bosses should go.
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