Azun
- Thread starter moono
- Start date
Raisin: I have alwys wished for a "peaceful solution." At the same time, i recognize that the IDF serves a vital function when there are 22 plus armed and illegal groups out for Israel and Jewish destruction as well as the 23 neighbouring Arab nations that are out for much of the same...as witnessed by the latest debacle in Egypt...and Egypt actually has formal peace with Israel!
However, again you are incorrect in assigning blame to the IDF when there is almost NEVER any proof that the IDF shot any child. the area is rife with automatic weapons..Lebanon has just outlawed the firing of guns during celebrations because at least 3 people were errantly killed in the wake of the recent elections in Beirut! There are never any post mortems since it is against the religion of many and culture of all.There is NEVEr any film in one of the most highly filmed places on the planet! There is NEVER any forensic exams perfomed that would accurately surmise the trajectory of any bullet. ALl there ever is is the tragic killing of a child and someone pointing a finger without any proof. A doctor says it was Israel. the child's family members say that it was Israel but they were sitting in the room when the child was killed.
"Rachamim needs to recognize Palestinians as his equals." Um, I have always done so. I also recognize when someone pisses on my head and tells me its raining. Using HAMAS as an example since it has just won municpal elections in a lot of areas anbd it is also the largest of the militant groups...HAMAS states that it wishes to kill all Jews! It states that Jews are money hungry manipulators that control all of the world's banks and media. HAMAS says that every Arab should consider it their duty to kill all Jews...and yet noone says a thing as the group not only operates openly and with impunity even though it is clearly in direct violation of PA and International Law. Israel pleads with the PA to enforce its own laws and at least prevent the group from lobbing Qassams into Israel proper...yet nothing changes. People such as yourself continuously harp about the cruel and inhumane brutality of the occupying Israelis without the slightest consideration to the realities that every Israeli faces. Building a "Barrier" is not mistreating a people. Compelling a people to carry and produce i.d.s is not atrocious. DEmolishing a house that sits atop a warren of smuggling tunnels [as in the Ms. Corrie case] is not punative.
There are more than 1.1 million Arabs living peacefully in Israel. They have full and equal rights. They even serve in the IDF, as evidenced by the Mr. hundall case, so that it seems clear to most rational people that Israel sees Arabs as equals. Can you make that claim about "Palestinian" perceptions of Israelis? How does a school system that offers classes and materials that portray Jews and Israelis in general as animals help? How does 22 plus armed and illegal groups that openly attack Israel in action and in thought help?
I have NEVER,EVER supported terror and violence, from Israel or any other entity. you choose to call the lawful actions of the IDF terror activities, that is your screw up, not mine. Israel's Army does not operate in a vaccum. Of all the militaries on the planet, the IDF is probably the most accessible.How many nations would allow foreign press and media in a combat zone to scrutinize their actions? America does allow embedded reporters in some areas, but never free reign. Israel allows aqnyone with a press pass in to do as they please. If the IDF was intent on perpertrating terror, why would it do that?
Violence and militarism are not the glue that holds Israel together. The strongest bond in the world is a thriving culture. Jews are connected biologically first and foremost. Observant Jews are taught from the age of 3 that we are descended from common ancestors and that the same blood that ran in our ancestors now runs in our blood. anything we do to bring shame or dishonor also hurts our ancestors. The Jewish Culture is one of, if not the oldest continuous culutr on the planet. My wife is Hakka Chinese. The Hakka are considered an ancient ethncity in China with roots going back 1,200 years. Japanese go back more than 2,000. Most indian cultures go back 2 to 3 thousand years...they are newborns next to the Jewish Culutre. this is a obnd that you might have a difficult time understanding. None the less, Jews have a strong sense of self an of community. If peace ever does come, we will continue to exist just as we always have. Nations come and go but the Jewish People will never forgo that little spit of land. That land is our center of the universe. To this day observant Jewish wedding invitations have images of Jerusalem on them, our [drinking] toasts have the same...it is in our being.
Extra - judical kiilings [targeted killings] are the result of Israel's judical process. It is not a unilateral decision. In addition, only people that have had their hands in at least dozens of Jewish deaths are ever nominated for this process. Again, Israel pleads with the PA and the International Community to at least detain and question the indiviuals in question. It never happens. these people go on killing Jewish civilians while noone does anything...except Israel. Israel's ultimate responsibility is to the protection of tis people. If the Pa or anyone else will not protect Israelis, it falls on Israel to do so.
As for "Palestinian Parents," the supervision of a child is an arduous task. It is also one of the gravest responsibilities that a person will ever have to bear. If a child is roaming at will, with no form of supervision, and wanders into a live fire zone...who then has the ultimate responsibility for that child's safety? You might not like it but that is a fundamental truth. IF a parent left a 5 year old home alone to go drinking...or even to go to work...and the child ended up playing with matches and set a fire that killed him/her, where does the responsibility then lay? In the match manufacturer? IT lies with the parent. Israel has never, ever had a policy that called for the targetng of children. To this day there has never, ever been even the slightest proof that the IDf aims for children...and yet you continue to insist that it is the IDf's fault when an unsupervised child wanders into a combat zone and is ERRANTLY hit with a bullet. I do not see it that way at all and I would tend to think that most rational people would agree.
"Brainwashed Israelis." Unlike the Pa which innundates its demographic with hate filed propaganda [recall the "Elders of Zion" hyper link on its offical site?] , Israel odes no such thing. Remember, Israel has 1.1 million Arabs as well as alot of non-Arab Muslims and Druse that are proud to call themselves Israeli...many of which have not been educated in any Israeli public school so that your claim makes no sense.
"Warsaw Ghetto." Right...Please remind me, did the defenders of the Ghetto board buses and target civilians? Did they teach their kids that all non-Jews were animals? the defenders fought armed Nazis face to face. they did not attack civilans or non - military tragets. The defenders did not even leave the alled in Ghetto! How could you make that comparison? Hmmm...Let's see...armed civilans take on soldiers face to face without aiming or even hitting any civikans or non - military targets....Try again.
Moono: I am not suprised that you would agree with Raisin's analogy. After all, you are the person who , while maintaining a straight face, claims that Israel strated the 1948 War! You 2 are a riot!
However, again you are incorrect in assigning blame to the IDF when there is almost NEVER any proof that the IDF shot any child. the area is rife with automatic weapons..Lebanon has just outlawed the firing of guns during celebrations because at least 3 people were errantly killed in the wake of the recent elections in Beirut! There are never any post mortems since it is against the religion of many and culture of all.There is NEVEr any film in one of the most highly filmed places on the planet! There is NEVER any forensic exams perfomed that would accurately surmise the trajectory of any bullet. ALl there ever is is the tragic killing of a child and someone pointing a finger without any proof. A doctor says it was Israel. the child's family members say that it was Israel but they were sitting in the room when the child was killed.
"Rachamim needs to recognize Palestinians as his equals." Um, I have always done so. I also recognize when someone pisses on my head and tells me its raining. Using HAMAS as an example since it has just won municpal elections in a lot of areas anbd it is also the largest of the militant groups...HAMAS states that it wishes to kill all Jews! It states that Jews are money hungry manipulators that control all of the world's banks and media. HAMAS says that every Arab should consider it their duty to kill all Jews...and yet noone says a thing as the group not only operates openly and with impunity even though it is clearly in direct violation of PA and International Law. Israel pleads with the PA to enforce its own laws and at least prevent the group from lobbing Qassams into Israel proper...yet nothing changes. People such as yourself continuously harp about the cruel and inhumane brutality of the occupying Israelis without the slightest consideration to the realities that every Israeli faces. Building a "Barrier" is not mistreating a people. Compelling a people to carry and produce i.d.s is not atrocious. DEmolishing a house that sits atop a warren of smuggling tunnels [as in the Ms. Corrie case] is not punative.
There are more than 1.1 million Arabs living peacefully in Israel. They have full and equal rights. They even serve in the IDF, as evidenced by the Mr. hundall case, so that it seems clear to most rational people that Israel sees Arabs as equals. Can you make that claim about "Palestinian" perceptions of Israelis? How does a school system that offers classes and materials that portray Jews and Israelis in general as animals help? How does 22 plus armed and illegal groups that openly attack Israel in action and in thought help?
I have NEVER,EVER supported terror and violence, from Israel or any other entity. you choose to call the lawful actions of the IDF terror activities, that is your screw up, not mine. Israel's Army does not operate in a vaccum. Of all the militaries on the planet, the IDF is probably the most accessible.How many nations would allow foreign press and media in a combat zone to scrutinize their actions? America does allow embedded reporters in some areas, but never free reign. Israel allows aqnyone with a press pass in to do as they please. If the IDF was intent on perpertrating terror, why would it do that?
Violence and militarism are not the glue that holds Israel together. The strongest bond in the world is a thriving culture. Jews are connected biologically first and foremost. Observant Jews are taught from the age of 3 that we are descended from common ancestors and that the same blood that ran in our ancestors now runs in our blood. anything we do to bring shame or dishonor also hurts our ancestors. The Jewish Culture is one of, if not the oldest continuous culutr on the planet. My wife is Hakka Chinese. The Hakka are considered an ancient ethncity in China with roots going back 1,200 years. Japanese go back more than 2,000. Most indian cultures go back 2 to 3 thousand years...they are newborns next to the Jewish Culutre. this is a obnd that you might have a difficult time understanding. None the less, Jews have a strong sense of self an of community. If peace ever does come, we will continue to exist just as we always have. Nations come and go but the Jewish People will never forgo that little spit of land. That land is our center of the universe. To this day observant Jewish wedding invitations have images of Jerusalem on them, our [drinking] toasts have the same...it is in our being.
Extra - judical kiilings [targeted killings] are the result of Israel's judical process. It is not a unilateral decision. In addition, only people that have had their hands in at least dozens of Jewish deaths are ever nominated for this process. Again, Israel pleads with the PA and the International Community to at least detain and question the indiviuals in question. It never happens. these people go on killing Jewish civilians while noone does anything...except Israel. Israel's ultimate responsibility is to the protection of tis people. If the Pa or anyone else will not protect Israelis, it falls on Israel to do so.
As for "Palestinian Parents," the supervision of a child is an arduous task. It is also one of the gravest responsibilities that a person will ever have to bear. If a child is roaming at will, with no form of supervision, and wanders into a live fire zone...who then has the ultimate responsibility for that child's safety? You might not like it but that is a fundamental truth. IF a parent left a 5 year old home alone to go drinking...or even to go to work...and the child ended up playing with matches and set a fire that killed him/her, where does the responsibility then lay? In the match manufacturer? IT lies with the parent. Israel has never, ever had a policy that called for the targetng of children. To this day there has never, ever been even the slightest proof that the IDf aims for children...and yet you continue to insist that it is the IDf's fault when an unsupervised child wanders into a combat zone and is ERRANTLY hit with a bullet. I do not see it that way at all and I would tend to think that most rational people would agree.
"Brainwashed Israelis." Unlike the Pa which innundates its demographic with hate filed propaganda [recall the "Elders of Zion" hyper link on its offical site?] , Israel odes no such thing. Remember, Israel has 1.1 million Arabs as well as alot of non-Arab Muslims and Druse that are proud to call themselves Israeli...many of which have not been educated in any Israeli public school so that your claim makes no sense.
"Warsaw Ghetto." Right...Please remind me, did the defenders of the Ghetto board buses and target civilians? Did they teach their kids that all non-Jews were animals? the defenders fought armed Nazis face to face. they did not attack civilans or non - military tragets. The defenders did not even leave the alled in Ghetto! How could you make that comparison? Hmmm...Let's see...armed civilans take on soldiers face to face without aiming or even hitting any civikans or non - military targets....Try again.
Moono: I am not suprised that you would agree with Raisin's analogy. After all, you are the person who , while maintaining a straight face, claims that Israel strated the 1948 War! You 2 are a riot!
It's evident , even from the scant links I've posted, that Israel began the large-scale and organised violence which led to the war. Post your information to the contrary, you've had enough opportunity.
Anyone that thinks there was a Warsaw Ghetto bus service probably thinks that Gaza has golf courses. You're the riot, rachamim.
Good! you reminded me! I will post in a while!
Just for Moono...
Moono:
11/29/47: The UN makes its formal announcement.
12/02/47: "Jerusalem Riots of 1947" After the announcement, the "Arab Higher Committee" [defacto Arab Mandate leadership] calls for a 3 day strike and public demonstration in Jerusalem. The demonstration is filled with many disparate factions but among them are many militants. they begin marching towards Jerusalem's "Zion Square," the heart of the city's Jewish Quarter. British Authorities stop them. the crowd then begins to march towards the Jewish Commercial Quarter. Arriving, they beat any Jew they see and proceed to ransack and loot the various shops. they then set them on fire and fan out into the surrounding Jewish residential quarters. The result is 62 Jews dead, hundreds injured to various degrees, at least 2 British Mandater personell are killed as well, as are 32 Arabs who are killed either in the ensuing chaos by their own people or by British authorities.
12/11/47: "Gush Etzion Convoy Massacre Number I" At the same time as the Jerusalem Riots, Arab militants had surrounded and blockaded a bloc of 4 kibbutzim [Jewish collective farms] in the land south of Jerusalem. The Yishuv [Jewish Agency, forerunner of the Israeli govt.] sent a convoy of 10 open and unarmored pickup trucks to deliver humanitarian supplies. the British Authorities had advised the Yishuv to only use unarmored vehichles or they would antagonize Arabs. The convoy was accompanied by British Observers [known in Hebrew as "notrim"], in uniform but unarmed. As the convoy made its way along the road, Arabs attacked 4 of the lead trucks. They killed 10 Jews and injured 4 more.
12/14/47: "Gush Etzion Convoy Massacre Number II" 3 days later another Yishuv sponsored convoy made its way along the same road, again with humanitarian supplies since the other shipment was unsuccessful. Arabs again attack, this time killing 1 Jew. It is this attack that compels the Yishuv's military wing [Haganah] to only use armored vehichles on future missions.
12/14/47: "Beit Nabala Massacre" On the road from Petah - Tikvah to Ben Shemen, convoy of Jewish civilians was traveling in school buses. Arabs attacked and 14 Jewish civilians were killed. When the British Observers attempted to intervene, 2 of them were seriously injured.
12/18/47: " al Khisa Massacre" Palmach, a Jewish Kibbutzim based paramilitary under Haganah leadership, launches a reprisal raid on al Khisa village, near the Syrian border. The raid was in retaliation for 1 Jew having been killed the day before, outside the village, as well as recent attacks againt Jews in the city of Safed. Palmach kills 10 Arabs, civilians among them. 5 of the dead were minors. There were also 5 wounded.
12/29/47: "Nablus Gate Bombing in Jerusalem" Irgun, a Jewish paramilitary group sets a bomb that kills scores of Arab and Jewish civilians, and wounds many more. The Yishuv immediately denounces the action and the group.
12/30/47: "Haifa Oil Refinery Drive-By Bombing" Jewish paramilitary operatives throw a bomb from a speeding car as it passes a group of Arab day laborers who are congreagating in front of the Haifa Oil Refinery, hoping for a day's work. The bomb kills 6 Arab civilians.
12/30/47: "Haifa Oil Refinery Massacre" Survivors of the drive - by bombing are enraged and push their way through the gates of the refinery. the refinery employs both Jew and Arab in all positions. As the day laborers make their way through the plant, Arab employees of the plant join them in their search for revenge. Attacking every Jew they come across, they kill 41 Jewish civilians and wound 49 more before the British Authorities arrive. Some note the slow response time for the authorities which was just over an hour.
12/31/47: " Balad al Sheikh Massacre" In retaliation for the Arab massacre of Jews at the refinery, Palmach attacks the Arab villages of Balad al Sheikh and Hawasa, just outside Haifa. The viallages are home to most of the refinery's Arab employees. Palmach kills 12 Arab civilians, wounds 10, and destroys 12 dwellings.
1/04/48: " Yaffa Bombings." Jewish terrorists iniate a spate of bombings in Yaffa, directed at Arab civilians. they cite many reasons for the action but the overall result is that 30 Arab civilians die. there are cinflicting reports of injuries.
2/01/48: " Palestine Post Bombing" Arab militants bomb the Jeruslaem offices of the Mandate's leading English language periodical [later to be renamed the Jerusalem Post]. 6 Jewish civilians die, dozens are wounded.
2/11/48: "Ben Yehudah Street Bombings of 1948" Arab militants plant 3 car bombs, using light trucks. They are assisted by 2 British Army deserters who are promised renumeration by militant leader Abdel al Kader al Hussaini. the bombs kill 52 Jewish civilians and wound 123 others.
2/28/48: " Cairo to Haifa Train Massacre Number I" The tracks are mined, by Arab militants, north of Rehevot. 28 Jews are killed, 35 others are badly wounded.
3/11/48: "Yishuv Bombing, also known as The Jewish Agency Bombing" Arab militants set a car bomb in the courtyard of the main Yishuv building and kill 12 Jews and injure 44 others to varying degrees.
3/21/48: "Gush Etzion convoy Massacre" Convoy to the afore mentioned Gush Etzion bloc of Kibbutzim is ambushed. 15 Jews are killed, survivors are rescued by British Army.
3/26/48: " Yehi'am Convoy Massacre" Yishuv convoy of 7 trucks are attempting to deliver humanitarian aid to Kibbutz Yehi'am but are ambushed by Arab militants. 47 Jews are killed, all are aged 16 to 22.
3/31/48: "Cairo to Haifa Train Massacre Number II" Near village of Benyamina the tracks are mined. the objective was to kill Jews but as luck would have it, most of the 40 dead and 60 wounded are actually Arab civilians.
4/09/48 - 4/11/48: "Deir Yassin Massacre." The strategically placed village in the heights above the road to Jerusalem had signed a non-agresion pact with various Jewish groups. when Arab militants had attempted to deploy there the villagers had violently objected, causing the death of a village youth. Still, in the month leading up to the incident, a squad of Iraqi fighters had become ensconced there. Even so, the Jewish Forces attempting to strategically hold the village to ensure free passage on the Jerusalem hi way met with unexpected heavy resistance. upon finally entering the viallge they were repeatedly sniped at. Finally, they were able to gather the villagers in the village square. As they did so however, it was discovered that not only had the Jews' commander been killed [causing shock to his troops] but that one of the village "women" was actually a militant. underneath his burkah he was fully armed. Discovering this 1 Jewish soldier began firing his machinegun chaotically. Other Jews joined in and the end result was that 107 Arabs were killed. The majority were civilians.
4/12/48: "Qalunya Massacre" There is a great deal of confusion about the circumstances but the end result was that 14 Arab civilians were killed by Jewish militants in this Arab village.
4/13/48: "Hadassah Medical Convoy Massacre" A 10 vehichle convoy consisting of doctors, nurses, and medical students was inching along the road towards Hadassah Hospital in Jeruslame when the lead vehichle hit a mine. Immediately the convoy was attacked by Arab militants. 5 vehichles were able to immediately fless but 5 others including an ambulance and 2 buses were boxed in by machinegun fire and mortar rounds. the vehichles hung white flags out the windows and were clearly marked, still they were machine gunned and had molotov coktails lobbed at them. For 7 hours the British Authorities refused to intervene and refused to allow International Red Cross Jeruslam offical de Reynier to negotiate for their passage. in addition, the British also prevented Haganah from launching a rescue operation. 78 Jewish medical professional were killed and then mutilated.
5/13/48: "K'far Etzion Massacre." Kibbutx K'far Etzion had been blockaded for quite some time when the Arabs finally launched their offensive on 5/12. On 5/13 the Jews realized that their situation was dire. they hung out a white flag and attempted to negotiate their surrender. As the Arabs enterted the grounds and surrounded the Jews who were on the ground, they shouted "Deir Yassin!" over and over. 1 Arab began machine gunnng the Jews as they sat on the ground but he was then joined by others. 157 Jewish civilians were killed, including 20 women.
5/20/48: "al Kabri Massacre" The Jewish "Carmelli Brigade" took this village with little rersitance. After securing it, they killed 12 Arab civilians, including at least 1 teenager.
7/12/48: "Lydda Massacre, also known as Lod Massacre" Jews were involved in close quarter urban combat with Arab militants in this city. As they traded fire Arab civilians took to the streets in an effort at escaping the violence. As they did this, they were caught in the cross fire. There is credible evidence to suggest that some of the ensuing casualties were the fault of Jewish snipers who took deliberate aim at them.
10/29/48: "Sasaf Massacre" The first volley in the Yishuv's "Operation Hiram" saw the Jews encounter fierce resistance from the Arab Liberation Army's 2nd Yarmuk Battalion. When they finally did secure the city, the Jews killed 50 Arabs, civilians included among them. they also are accused of raping 5 women, including a 14 year old girl but there was never any substantiation of the alleged sex crimes.
10/24/48 - 10/29/48: "Hula Massacre" Hula is an Arab village that actually sits in Lebanon but it is just west of Kibbutz Manasa. The Jewish Carmeli Brigade captured the village with relative ease. Upon doing so, the Brigade demolished a house with militants inside. An officer, Shmuel Lahi was later sentenced to 7 years in prison. this was later commuted to 1 year.
Moono:
11/29/47: The UN makes its formal announcement.
12/02/47: "Jerusalem Riots of 1947" After the announcement, the "Arab Higher Committee" [defacto Arab Mandate leadership] calls for a 3 day strike and public demonstration in Jerusalem. The demonstration is filled with many disparate factions but among them are many militants. they begin marching towards Jerusalem's "Zion Square," the heart of the city's Jewish Quarter. British Authorities stop them. the crowd then begins to march towards the Jewish Commercial Quarter. Arriving, they beat any Jew they see and proceed to ransack and loot the various shops. they then set them on fire and fan out into the surrounding Jewish residential quarters. The result is 62 Jews dead, hundreds injured to various degrees, at least 2 British Mandater personell are killed as well, as are 32 Arabs who are killed either in the ensuing chaos by their own people or by British authorities.
12/11/47: "Gush Etzion Convoy Massacre Number I" At the same time as the Jerusalem Riots, Arab militants had surrounded and blockaded a bloc of 4 kibbutzim [Jewish collective farms] in the land south of Jerusalem. The Yishuv [Jewish Agency, forerunner of the Israeli govt.] sent a convoy of 10 open and unarmored pickup trucks to deliver humanitarian supplies. the British Authorities had advised the Yishuv to only use unarmored vehichles or they would antagonize Arabs. The convoy was accompanied by British Observers [known in Hebrew as "notrim"], in uniform but unarmed. As the convoy made its way along the road, Arabs attacked 4 of the lead trucks. They killed 10 Jews and injured 4 more.
12/14/47: "Gush Etzion Convoy Massacre Number II" 3 days later another Yishuv sponsored convoy made its way along the same road, again with humanitarian supplies since the other shipment was unsuccessful. Arabs again attack, this time killing 1 Jew. It is this attack that compels the Yishuv's military wing [Haganah] to only use armored vehichles on future missions.
12/14/47: "Beit Nabala Massacre" On the road from Petah - Tikvah to Ben Shemen, convoy of Jewish civilians was traveling in school buses. Arabs attacked and 14 Jewish civilians were killed. When the British Observers attempted to intervene, 2 of them were seriously injured.
12/18/47: " al Khisa Massacre" Palmach, a Jewish Kibbutzim based paramilitary under Haganah leadership, launches a reprisal raid on al Khisa village, near the Syrian border. The raid was in retaliation for 1 Jew having been killed the day before, outside the village, as well as recent attacks againt Jews in the city of Safed. Palmach kills 10 Arabs, civilians among them. 5 of the dead were minors. There were also 5 wounded.
12/29/47: "Nablus Gate Bombing in Jerusalem" Irgun, a Jewish paramilitary group sets a bomb that kills scores of Arab and Jewish civilians, and wounds many more. The Yishuv immediately denounces the action and the group.
12/30/47: "Haifa Oil Refinery Drive-By Bombing" Jewish paramilitary operatives throw a bomb from a speeding car as it passes a group of Arab day laborers who are congreagating in front of the Haifa Oil Refinery, hoping for a day's work. The bomb kills 6 Arab civilians.
12/30/47: "Haifa Oil Refinery Massacre" Survivors of the drive - by bombing are enraged and push their way through the gates of the refinery. the refinery employs both Jew and Arab in all positions. As the day laborers make their way through the plant, Arab employees of the plant join them in their search for revenge. Attacking every Jew they come across, they kill 41 Jewish civilians and wound 49 more before the British Authorities arrive. Some note the slow response time for the authorities which was just over an hour.
12/31/47: " Balad al Sheikh Massacre" In retaliation for the Arab massacre of Jews at the refinery, Palmach attacks the Arab villages of Balad al Sheikh and Hawasa, just outside Haifa. The viallages are home to most of the refinery's Arab employees. Palmach kills 12 Arab civilians, wounds 10, and destroys 12 dwellings.
1/04/48: " Yaffa Bombings." Jewish terrorists iniate a spate of bombings in Yaffa, directed at Arab civilians. they cite many reasons for the action but the overall result is that 30 Arab civilians die. there are cinflicting reports of injuries.
2/01/48: " Palestine Post Bombing" Arab militants bomb the Jeruslaem offices of the Mandate's leading English language periodical [later to be renamed the Jerusalem Post]. 6 Jewish civilians die, dozens are wounded.
2/11/48: "Ben Yehudah Street Bombings of 1948" Arab militants plant 3 car bombs, using light trucks. They are assisted by 2 British Army deserters who are promised renumeration by militant leader Abdel al Kader al Hussaini. the bombs kill 52 Jewish civilians and wound 123 others.
2/28/48: " Cairo to Haifa Train Massacre Number I" The tracks are mined, by Arab militants, north of Rehevot. 28 Jews are killed, 35 others are badly wounded.
3/11/48: "Yishuv Bombing, also known as The Jewish Agency Bombing" Arab militants set a car bomb in the courtyard of the main Yishuv building and kill 12 Jews and injure 44 others to varying degrees.
3/21/48: "Gush Etzion convoy Massacre" Convoy to the afore mentioned Gush Etzion bloc of Kibbutzim is ambushed. 15 Jews are killed, survivors are rescued by British Army.
3/26/48: " Yehi'am Convoy Massacre" Yishuv convoy of 7 trucks are attempting to deliver humanitarian aid to Kibbutz Yehi'am but are ambushed by Arab militants. 47 Jews are killed, all are aged 16 to 22.
3/31/48: "Cairo to Haifa Train Massacre Number II" Near village of Benyamina the tracks are mined. the objective was to kill Jews but as luck would have it, most of the 40 dead and 60 wounded are actually Arab civilians.
4/09/48 - 4/11/48: "Deir Yassin Massacre." The strategically placed village in the heights above the road to Jerusalem had signed a non-agresion pact with various Jewish groups. when Arab militants had attempted to deploy there the villagers had violently objected, causing the death of a village youth. Still, in the month leading up to the incident, a squad of Iraqi fighters had become ensconced there. Even so, the Jewish Forces attempting to strategically hold the village to ensure free passage on the Jerusalem hi way met with unexpected heavy resistance. upon finally entering the viallge they were repeatedly sniped at. Finally, they were able to gather the villagers in the village square. As they did so however, it was discovered that not only had the Jews' commander been killed [causing shock to his troops] but that one of the village "women" was actually a militant. underneath his burkah he was fully armed. Discovering this 1 Jewish soldier began firing his machinegun chaotically. Other Jews joined in and the end result was that 107 Arabs were killed. The majority were civilians.
4/12/48: "Qalunya Massacre" There is a great deal of confusion about the circumstances but the end result was that 14 Arab civilians were killed by Jewish militants in this Arab village.
4/13/48: "Hadassah Medical Convoy Massacre" A 10 vehichle convoy consisting of doctors, nurses, and medical students was inching along the road towards Hadassah Hospital in Jeruslame when the lead vehichle hit a mine. Immediately the convoy was attacked by Arab militants. 5 vehichles were able to immediately fless but 5 others including an ambulance and 2 buses were boxed in by machinegun fire and mortar rounds. the vehichles hung white flags out the windows and were clearly marked, still they were machine gunned and had molotov coktails lobbed at them. For 7 hours the British Authorities refused to intervene and refused to allow International Red Cross Jeruslam offical de Reynier to negotiate for their passage. in addition, the British also prevented Haganah from launching a rescue operation. 78 Jewish medical professional were killed and then mutilated.
5/13/48: "K'far Etzion Massacre." Kibbutx K'far Etzion had been blockaded for quite some time when the Arabs finally launched their offensive on 5/12. On 5/13 the Jews realized that their situation was dire. they hung out a white flag and attempted to negotiate their surrender. As the Arabs enterted the grounds and surrounded the Jews who were on the ground, they shouted "Deir Yassin!" over and over. 1 Arab began machine gunnng the Jews as they sat on the ground but he was then joined by others. 157 Jewish civilians were killed, including 20 women.
5/20/48: "al Kabri Massacre" The Jewish "Carmelli Brigade" took this village with little rersitance. After securing it, they killed 12 Arab civilians, including at least 1 teenager.
7/12/48: "Lydda Massacre, also known as Lod Massacre" Jews were involved in close quarter urban combat with Arab militants in this city. As they traded fire Arab civilians took to the streets in an effort at escaping the violence. As they did this, they were caught in the cross fire. There is credible evidence to suggest that some of the ensuing casualties were the fault of Jewish snipers who took deliberate aim at them.
10/29/48: "Sasaf Massacre" The first volley in the Yishuv's "Operation Hiram" saw the Jews encounter fierce resistance from the Arab Liberation Army's 2nd Yarmuk Battalion. When they finally did secure the city, the Jews killed 50 Arabs, civilians included among them. they also are accused of raping 5 women, including a 14 year old girl but there was never any substantiation of the alleged sex crimes.
10/24/48 - 10/29/48: "Hula Massacre" Hula is an Arab village that actually sits in Lebanon but it is just west of Kibbutz Manasa. The Jewish Carmeli Brigade captured the village with relative ease. Upon doing so, the Brigade demolished a house with militants inside. An officer, Shmuel Lahi was later sentenced to 7 years in prison. this was later commuted to 1 year.
Funny Moono. You have the facts, dates, locations, casualties. you even have those atrocities that were in fact committed by the Jews. Yet, you still play games? This shows that you are a fraud. you asked for facts. You want sources? "Google" any of those events and you will have hundreds of hits, probably for each. I did not include two that happend just before the War, that Israel committed because I had to edit for the built in character limit. The two were one Lebanese village, just over the border from a kibbutz -never proven...and the slaughter of handcuffed Bedoiun in their encampment after Israeli acouts found decapitated comrades within the camp. I also failed to include alot of the little events, one person actions, one victim actions, simply because I wanted to give a straight forward look at the era in question.
You claimed that the 1920 riots thaty started 16 years of Arab against Jew violence without a single case of retaliation by the Yishuv did not count. You claimed that only the events after the UN Partition Announcemetn counted. You claimed that the Jews were the first to take up arms after that. you claimed that the Jews were the aggressors, didn't you? you did not mention the 3 day strike and action in Jeruslame which turned into a pogrom right out og Czarist Russia! you did not talk about any of that! I thought that maybe you really believed your biased sources. i could not understand why you would not listen to reason when I asked you to at least take a look atr other sources. You claimed that did not need to. Obviously you were wrong.
I have shown that within hours of the announcement, Arabs began taking Jewish lives. You can hide if you want but history does not lie.
You claimed that the 1920 riots thaty started 16 years of Arab against Jew violence without a single case of retaliation by the Yishuv did not count. You claimed that only the events after the UN Partition Announcemetn counted. You claimed that the Jews were the first to take up arms after that. you claimed that the Jews were the aggressors, didn't you? you did not mention the 3 day strike and action in Jeruslame which turned into a pogrom right out og Czarist Russia! you did not talk about any of that! I thought that maybe you really believed your biased sources. i could not understand why you would not listen to reason when I asked you to at least take a look atr other sources. You claimed that did not need to. Obviously you were wrong.
I have shown that within hours of the announcement, Arabs began taking Jewish lives. You can hide if you want but history does not lie.
No, it doesn't, and the general consensus is that Israel was responsible for the first large-scale and organised violence. Ambushes, murders are not war in themselves, although Israel is responsible for many. War is large-scale and organised violence and the general consensus is that it was begun by Israel. The Arab League entered later. Read your history.
Update...
Since Moono's post...The Israeli High Court has firmly affirmed the legality and existence of the "Barrier." In fact, in areas bordered by it, it has DECREASED ALL SUCH ATTCKS BY 95%!!! A NINETY FIVE PERCENT DECREASE!!!
Since Moono's post...The Israeli High Court has firmly affirmed the legality and existence of the "Barrier." In fact, in areas bordered by it, it has DECREASED ALL SUCH ATTCKS BY 95%!!! A NINETY FIVE PERCENT DECREASE!!!
It's not ' since moono's post ' at all, it's part of the same link.
The thread is about Israeli domestic law. The stockade itself, and minor route changes, are part of the same package of illegalities. If the Israeli Supreme court were to declare torture legal tomorrow it would simply stamp Israel as a rogue regime, the same as ignoring the ruling on the stockade by the International Court does.
The Israeli court ruling on the route is one step in the right direction and its ruling on the stockade is ten paces backwards.
The thread is about Israeli domestic law. The stockade itself, and minor route changes, are part of the same package of illegalities. If the Israeli Supreme court were to declare torture legal tomorrow it would simply stamp Israel as a rogue regime, the same as ignoring the ruling on the stockade by the International Court does.
The Israeli court ruling on the route is one step in the right direction and its ruling on the stockade is ten paces backwards.
Update;
Azun is now synonymous with Israel's admission that the Stockade is political. To be caught out in a long-standing lie is to be 'Azunerd'
Update to original link;
http://www.hamoked.org.il/items/6448_eng.htm
PS. Edited.
Azun is now synonymous with Israel's admission that the Stockade is political. To be caught out in a long-standing lie is to be 'Azunerd'
Update to original link;
http://www.hamoked.org.il/items/6448_eng.htm
PS. Edited.
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
please pm editor or fridgemagnet who may or may not provide you with an answer.
(FAQ asks us not to use threads to ask these type of questions)
(FAQ asks us not to use threads to ask these type of questions
)
Moono: First, your link does not work. however, I am fortunate in that I am well aware of the referenced case.
Secondly, you are contradicting yourself. You find everything about Israel to be fascist yet the Israeli court is renewing your faith?
Apartheid? Apartheid is based on race. Jews and Arabs are of the same race. you make no sense, even if the "Barrier" was exclusionary...which it is certainly NOT.
Secondly, you are contradicting yourself. You find everything about Israel to be fascist yet the Israeli court is renewing your faith?
Apartheid? Apartheid is based on race. Jews and Arabs are of the same race. you make no sense, even if the "Barrier" was exclusionary...which it is certainly NOT.
Yes, the link works. You even have to spread misinformation about that ? Try it again;
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/57B677C3-29C5-4700-9A00-810609023D76.htm
So, another setback for the stockade and apartheid. Praise to the courts, where in this instance it's due.
Incidentally, talking generally and with regard to links, al Jazeera maintain a database of all their pages which can be accessed later, years later in my experience. The Israeli news source, Ha'aretz, dumps theirs after a short while.
So, if you want the link to stay live, for later additions to your thread, avoid Ha'aretz or post the relevant Ha'aretz text along with an al Jazeera ( or other lasting) link.
Moral; The Arabs have a future built upon certainty. Lol.
Rachamim;
No contradiction. As tangentlama recently illustrated there is mainstream internal Israeli opposition to Zionist fascism. You will, no doubt, claim that you were always a part of it when the Zionist fascists are defeated.
Apartheid isn't wholly racial. You know that as it's been discussed before and you made the same claim then. You were excused on account of 'poor English' on that occasion. Not on this one though.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/57B677C3-29C5-4700-9A00-810609023D76.htm
So, another setback for the stockade and apartheid. Praise to the courts, where in this instance it's due.
Incidentally, talking generally and with regard to links, al Jazeera maintain a database of all their pages which can be accessed later, years later in my experience. The Israeli news source, Ha'aretz, dumps theirs after a short while.
So, if you want the link to stay live, for later additions to your thread, avoid Ha'aretz or post the relevant Ha'aretz text along with an al Jazeera ( or other lasting) link.
Moral; The Arabs have a future built upon certainty. Lol.
Rachamim;
No contradiction. As tangentlama recently illustrated there is mainstream internal Israeli opposition to Zionist fascism. You will, no doubt, claim that you were always a part of it when the Zionist fascists are defeated.
Apartheid isn't wholly racial. You know that as it's been discussed before and you made the same claim then. You were excused on account of 'poor English' on that occasion. Not on this one though.
Moono: You take al Jazeera and Ha'aretz, compare their archival practices, and come up with "it proves that Arabs are better?" What utterly juvenile nonsense.
As I showed you in the other thread [Qassams], B'tzelem does not know what they are talking about most of the time and this si no exception. The court did not say that the "Barrier" is not being constructed for security reasons.
Regardless of what Tangent did or did not say, there is no "mainstream opposition to Zionism [anything to do with the ideology]" in Israel. In fact, even the hard left is adamantly Zioinist. Only ICP is anti-Zionist. Even this contradicts you Moono. If Israel is so fascist, why would it allow ICP to even exist? It locks up Jewish extremists but allows people agitating for dissolution of the Zionist Charter? I think that you need to face reality.
What does my not being a antive English speaker have to do with your perversion of Apartheid?
As I showed you in the other thread [Qassams], B'tzelem does not know what they are talking about most of the time and this si no exception. The court did not say that the "Barrier" is not being constructed for security reasons.
Regardless of what Tangent did or did not say, there is no "mainstream opposition to Zionism [anything to do with the ideology]" in Israel. In fact, even the hard left is adamantly Zioinist. Only ICP is anti-Zionist. Even this contradicts you Moono. If Israel is so fascist, why would it allow ICP to even exist? It locks up Jewish extremists but allows people agitating for dissolution of the Zionist Charter? I think that you need to face reality.
What does my not being a antive English speaker have to do with your perversion of Apartheid?
Israel isn't so far bent towards fascism that it can't recover. I didn't say it was. Although I see it as a fascist State that's only because the fascist elements of the Zionists are leading it. They don't have to lead it and that's why I criticise it.
Israeli go home.
Left to the Zionist's devices it would become an incurable fascist State, imo., apartheid being one of the practises which would make it so.
Your 'understanding' of the word is rigid. Look again.
It is , isn't it. It's your 'utterly juvenile nonsense' though. What I said was that Al-Jazeera's archiving was better.
Israeli go home.
Left to the Zionist's devices it would become an incurable fascist State, imo., apartheid being one of the practises which would make it so.
Your 'understanding' of the word is rigid. Look again.
It is , isn't it. It's your 'utterly juvenile nonsense' though. What I said was that Al-Jazeera's archiving was better.
Similar threads
- Poll
