Ayan Hirsi "Ali" Exposed

[TAE]

I have to agree that hating Islam, or the followers of Islam, is not in itself racism - otherwise what is hating Christianity and followers of Christianity?

However, those who ARE racist might well use attacks against moslems as a way of circumventing anti-racehate laws, so it's not always easy to see someone's true motives.

 

[Lock&Light]

so it's not always easy to see someone's true motives.

In the case of Theo Van Gogh it is easy to see his motives. They are proclaimed loud and clear in his films.

 

[nino_savatte]

You don't seem to understand that Muslims are not a race. All I've been saying is that Theo Van Gogh was not a racist when he made comments about Muslims. I wouldn't have made those comments myself, but if I had, I also would not (necessarily) be a racist.

You don't seem capable of reading another person's post without making up what you want them to say. Nowhere in any of my posts have I given the impression that Muslims were a race of people. calling Muslims "goatfuckers" is what, precisely? Friendly banter?

His comments regarding Jews and Blacks are racist...or will you continue to deny that?

 

[Lock&Light]

You don't seem capable of reading another person's post without making up what you want them to say.

It's only because that comes from you that I am capable of believing such an extent of hypocricy in any one posting.

 

[nino_savatte]

It's only because that comes from you that I am capable of believing such an extent of hypocricy in any one posting.

And this statement proves to me (and to everyone else) that you have no intention of discussing anything with anybody in an honest fashion. You pursue your tiresome vendettas whenever and wherever the mood takes you.

You don't even understand the meaning of the word "hypocrisy".Which is interesting, given the numerous examples of your hypocrisy on these boards. But then you're blind to any of your faults and will project your shortcomings onto others.

You're beneath contempt.

 

[nino_savatte]

It's only because that comes from you that I am capable of believing such an extent of hypocricy in any one posting.

So, Van Gogh's comments about Jews...do you think he was engaging in friendly banter?

 

[lostexpectation]

so what is a black person who hates black people

or a former muslim woman who actively ramps up blind hatred for muslims?

 

[belboid]

The Dutch are quite colourful in their language. Even if this was said about Muslims it wouldn't imply racism.

it would imply being a brain dead moronic bigot tho. And for all but the stupid bigots, it would also imply racism. Especially when the speaker makes anti-semitic remarks as well.

 

[Lock&Light]

You're beneath contempt.

Why, then, do you continue to show contempt? I'm personally not too bothered, but I think other posters are starting to get well fed up with your continual whining.

 

[nino_savatte]

Why, then, do you continue to show contempt? I'm personally not too bothered, but I think other posters are starting to get well fed up with your continual whining.

You spend far too much time listening to the voices in your head. Try listening and paying attention to others for a change.

Was Van Gogh engaging in friendly banter when he made those anti-Semitic statements? A simple yes or no will do.

 

[cemertyone]

"Mohammed B." was part of the "hofstadgroep" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofstad_Network). The court of Rotterdam ruled that the hofstadgroep is a terror network (http://www.rechtspraak.nl/Gerechten...k+gedaan+in+zaken+verdachten+Hofstadgroep.htm)
.

What the state ( courts) constitute a " Terrorist group " is so all -encompassing that the words are meaningless...
FFS the C.I.A. have classified Reclaim The Streets as a terrorist group....

 

[nino_savatte]

Well L&L, you always moan that I don't engage you. Now here's your opportunity. Are you going to answer my question or shall we just revert back to our previous perception of you?

 

[Ephram]

What the state ( courts) constitute a " Terrorist group " is so all -encompassing that the words are meaningless...
FFS the C.I.A. have classified Reclaim The Streets as a terrorist group....

Not sure what the CIA has to do with the Netherlands, or the Dutch court(s).

There aren't that many convicted terrorists here.

 

[cemertyone]

Not sure what the CIA has to do with the Netherlands, or the Dutch court(s).

There aren't that many convicted terrorists here.

What i`m saying chief is that the term " Terrorist" is so meaningless and casual and everyv day that it amounts to nothing in particular. The specifics in that particular case in Holland are one thing, but to be labelled a terrorist nowdays means nothing more than you going against the political status quo...
Any ways one mans terrorist is another mans Freedom fighter.....#Oh and up the IRA......
Oh did you know that me actually saying that means that i`m commiting a "terrorist offence " in the UK?. Apparently me supporting Irish peoples right to determine their own destinies is now " glorifying" terrorism " in which case bring it on....

 

[Structaural]

The word 'nigger' doesn't appear in the Dutch language, nino.

Those that want to use it (5 colleagues have used it so far) are quite comfortable to use the english word I find.

 

[Structaural]

You don't seem to understand that Muslims are not a race. All I've been saying is that Theo Van Gogh was not a racist when he made comments about Muslims. I wouldn't have made those comments myself, but if I had, I also would not (necessarily) be a racist.

What a pile of shite, Theo van Gogh was a bigot and you know it.

 

[nino_savatte]

Those that want to use it (5 colleagues have used it so far) are quite comfortable to use the english word I find.

Exactement and quite what L&L's point was, is anyone's guess.

 

[Ephram]

Those that want to use it (5 colleagues have used it so far) are quite comfortable to use the english word I find.

24 years in this country and I have yet to find the first person using the word 'nigger.' Not sure why it would be relevant though.

What a pile of shite, Theo van Gogh was a bigot and you know it.

I know he wasn't.

 

[Structaural]

24 years in this country and I have yet to find the first person using the word 'nigger.' Not sure why it would be relevant though.



I know he wasn't.

I've heard it a lot - maybe it's an Amsterdam thing - of course I've yet to really understand the Dutch sense of humour - so maybe it's just a bit of un-pc fun. I never got to the bottom of it as my 'don't ever use that word in my presence again' made them quite apologetic.

Well his utterances would point to a less than enlightened view re: women, jews and a particular desire to piss off muslims. Goatfucker being slightly more offensive than cheese-heads wouldn't you agree?
Care to explain why he wasn't?

 

[belboid]

I know he wasn't.

you mean you agree with him is all.

 

[Ephram]

I've heard it a lot - maybe it's an Amsterdam thing - of course I've yet to really understand the Dutch sense of humour - so maybe it's just a bit of un-pc fun. I never got to the bottom of it as my 'don't ever use that word in my presence again' made them quite apologetic.

I live in Maastricht, which is quite unlike Amsterdam, but 'nigger' wouldn't be funny here either.

Well his utterances would point to a less than enlightened view re: women, jews and a particular desire to piss off muslims. Goatfucker being slightly more offensive than cheese-heads wouldn't you agree?
Care to explain why he wasn't?

What's his problem with women then? One of the problems he had with Islam was the way they treated women, afterall.

van Gogh's way to get his point across, was by offending people. This doesn't automatically make him a racist or biggot.

Most people in the Netherlands aren't happy with the way he expressed himself, but agree that he has some good points under that layer of abuse. I can recommend reading all his columns, all still on his website (unfortunately in Dutch). Only then you can really form an opinion, I think.

you mean you agree with him is all.

This "conclusion" makes no sense, and is very childish. Please find something or somewhere else to vent your anger and frustration.

 

[nino_savatte]

So what about his anti-Semitic comments? Friendly banter?

Do me a fucking favour!

 

[belboid]

This "conclusion" makes no sense, and is very childish. Please find something or somewhere else to vent your anger and frustration.

you need to learn the difference between laughter and anger. as well as between sense and nonsense.

But of course, we cant possibly understand poor poor Theo unless we read everything he wrote on his website. In Dutch. Oh how handy for you!

 

[Structaural]

I live in Maastricht, which is quite unlike Amsterdam, but 'nigger' wouldn't be funny here either.

Maybe it's just white dutch boys trying to be 'down'. Or maybe the casual racism I come across is just the norm... as a dutch friend said - the dutch legislate tolerance so that means they can be an intolerant as they like socially.

What's his problem with women then? One of the problems he had with Islam was the way they treated women, afterall.

Try the first two paragraphs of this:
http://www.gebladerte.nl/30097v01.htm

van Gogh's way to get his point across, was by offending people. This doesn't automatically make him a racist or biggot.

So cussing a Jewish person using the language and happenings of the holocaust isn't racist - it's just offensive?
Saying 'Most women I consider little speaking cunts. Women do not think with their heads, but with their cunt' isn't sexist bigotry?

Most people in the Netherlands aren't happy with the way he expressed himself, but agree that he has some good points under that layer of abuse. I can recommend reading all his columns, all still on his website (unfortunately in Dutch). Only then you can really form an opinion, I think.

right... I have - I think he was a right wing bigot, but he had the right to say whatever he liked without being killed for it. So he'll always be a martyr for free speech. But lets not canonize the man.

 

[Ephram]

right... I have - I think he was a right wing bigot

Right, I'm sorry you feel that way.

 

[Structaural]

Right, I'm sorry you feel that way.

It's not a feeling, I've thought about it. He supported the racist right winger Fortuyn, he's anti-semitic, seriously offensively anti-islamic and thought it was alright to beat your woman.
I mean come on, is this the best agent-provocateur you can come up with?

 

[Lock&Light]

In Dutch. Oh how handy for you!

Not just handy, bel.

Essential if you want to pretend that you know what you're talking about.

 

[Lock&Light]

It's not a feeling, I've thought about it. He supported the racist right winger Fortuyn, he's anti-semitic, seriously offensively anti-islamic and thought it was alright to beat your woman.
I mean come on, is this the best agent-provocateur you can come up with?

And you are simply talking bullshit!

 

[Ephram]

I mean come on, is this the best agent-provocateur you can come up with?

I gave my opinion. I have no desire to change your opinion or provoke you. I would even go as far as saying I understand why people disagree.

I'm not sure why you're insulting me.

 

[belboid]

good evidence and argument you've provided there L&L.