autonomous cars - the future of motoring is driverless

Discussion in 'transport' started by roryer, Jun 13, 2014.

  1. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable

    This is the trouble with your argument though - yes it can, long before the driver notices unusual handling. TPMS has been around for a decade or so.

    Edit: I pay attention when driving, and I drive a car that's fairly communicative. I noticed when cornering a while back that something was amiss. The tyre was pretty much flat (after changing to/from winters that day - didn't seal properly). TPMS would have told me well before that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2016
    BigTom likes this.
  2. Fez909

    Fez909 toilet expert

    This is exactly how it works these days. Machine learning algorithms are now generic, and they're going to take over everything. It's exploding in popularity at the minute because now it's so easy.

    See this video (I've linked to the relevant bit - it's only a few mins) to see a humvee learn to steer in 2 minutes:

    This was a long time ago. Imagine what's possible now?

    They don't even need to be programmed to communicate with each other to learn, btw, as some people are suggesting on this thread (though that would be useful!). Once they have been trained, they will work better than any human without additional training. You'll probably get software updates on your car the same way you do on your computer now. That will be based on the collective data of the fleet or by tests done by the manufacturer.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2016
    NoXion likes this.
  3. BigTom

    BigTom Well-Known Member

    ah, well I think we've explored our differences on that completely and the post you responded to wasn't about that hence my confusion. I don't know how easy or difficult machine learning is to do but even if it's difficult I think Google, Apple, Uber and the might of the money of the car industry will manage it tbh. I have no concept of time frames because that's a fools game. It will happen at some point imo and I welcome it, having seen the footage of how the google cars drive around cyclists.
     
  4. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    In that segment the HumVee was taught much in the way a spraying robot is taught, by a human doing it and then copying with a little extrapolation. But the HumVee visual system is reduced in detail massively, the image it is working on does not see that there are leaves on the road, or the camber of the road, things an experienced human driver would take into account. And when the Humvee reaches the cross roads it just drives out onto the two lane road without giving way.

    Yes it is a long time ago and yes things will have improved by now. But there are issues.

    It reminds me of the convoy driving proposals. So cars can queue up one behind another and follow like a train down a motorway. Great, except for if the lead car makes a mistake like the Tesla did when driving into a truck, then, for the following cars, what then?
     
  5. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    TPMS is one of those nice to have options for more expensive cars, do you expect it to be available in all automated cars? if so what else? if these vehicles include every sensor system known to man in addition to their driving computers/systems, they will end up being prohibitively expensive.
     
  6. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable

    It's available in middling Renaults and no doubt plenty besides, so yeah. And yes, they will contain all kinds of sensors, because they're self driving cars. Again you're looking at it wrong - mapping what we have today directly into this scenario without any flexibility. Think cars supplied as a service, think third party services for machine learning etc, think sensor suites and packages as a commodity.
     
  7. Fez909

    Fez909 toilet expert

    It was a steering algorithm only. The human was in charge of everything else. I hope you pay more attention when you're driving, than when you're discussing driving ;)

    And yes, of course they've moved on a lot now. We've already got driverless cars on the roads in America that have proven themselves safer. We don't need to be hypothetical about it, we can look at the stats: https://static.googleusercontent.co.../selfdrivingcar/files/reports/report-0816.pdf

    In August, Google cars did 170,000 miles. For 126,000 miles, the car was fully autonomous.

    They had 5 crashes. 3 in manual mode, 2 in autonomous mode. Neither of the autonomous crashes were the fault of the car.

    170,000 miles is the equivalent of 10 years of driving.

    In July, one crash, also the other driver's fault: https://static.googleusercontent.co.../selfdrivingcar/files/reports/report-0716.pdf

    June, two crashes, neither one the car's fault: https://static.googleusercontent.co.../selfdrivingcar/files/reports/report-0616.pdf

    May, one crash. The crash was caused by the Google car. It was in human mode: https://static.googleusercontent.co.../selfdrivingcar/files/reports/report-0516.pdf

    So there's about 40 years worth of driving miles. 9 crashes. None of them the fault of the computer.
     
    Almor, BigTom and existentialist like this.
  8. ViolentPanda

    ViolentPanda Hardly getting over it.

    I suspect that the major companies will play smart, and go for unitary standards, as - at least to start with - there would be little advantage to individual proprietary systems, but great advantage - pooled costs and risks, for a start - to a unitary system standard.
     
    BigTom likes this.
  9. ViolentPanda

    ViolentPanda Hardly getting over it.

    Onboard systems can already accurately detect tyre pressure anomalies.
     
  10. bi0boy

    bi0boy Power User

    TPMS is now mandatory for new vehicles.
     
  11. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    Where? UK? EU? US? etc - and since when, I wasn't aware of this ..
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2016
  12. BigTom

    BigTom Well-Known Member

    Almor, mauvais and weltweit like this.
  13. bi0boy

    bi0boy Power User

    In the UK it was 2012 for new types of vehicle (new models), and 2014 for all new cars sold.
     
    weltweit likes this.
  14. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    It is a while since I had a new car :)
     
  15. BigTom

    BigTom Well-Known Member

    Tesla Autopilot avoids a crash before it happens

    Here is an example of a self-driving car "seeing" a crash about to happen in a way that a human probably couldn't. weltweit this is the kind of thing I was talking about earlier in the thread, not directly this situation but how extra/different sensors improve on what humans can sense.

     
    cupid_stunt, HAL9000 and kabbes like this.
  16. 2hats

    2hats

    BigTom likes this.
  17. BigTom

    BigTom Well-Known Member

    oops, I probably read it here a few days ago as well, then forgot I'd read it here! At least it wasn't actually on this thread :oops:
     
  18. 2hats

    2hats

    This project takes the self driving car to new heights, literally.


    Urban Aeronautics have been testing their car sized Cormorant UAV which can carry a 500kg payload up to 50 km at speeds up to 185 km/h and altitudes up to 5500 m (18kft). Flying either manually via remote control or autonomously, it is driven by internal rotors and ducted fans housed in shields to prevent damage. The craft can take off and land vertically darting around in various directions once airborne. This model is intended to operate rescue or supply missions to vessels at sea, in remote or difficult to reach locations (obvious military applications too).

    The firm are rumoured to be working on a smaller variant that could be used by the public as a flying car.
    [​IMG]
     
    A380 likes this.
  19. hash tag

    hash tag Pedicabo omnes

  20. hash tag

    hash tag Pedicabo omnes

  21. Spymaster

    Spymaster Trigger

    :hmm:
     
  22. Crispy

    Crispy The following psytrance is baṉned: All

    More impressive city driving. Handling 4-way stops, pedestrians, cyclist undertaking, construction works, double-parked obstruction and other irregularities.

     
  23. HAL9000

    HAL9000 Lasting Damage

    Ford talking about self driving cars


    Driverless cars - no halfway house? - BBC News
     
    Crispy and mauvais like this.
  24. mauvais

    mauvais change has become unavoidable

    Good. That needs to be the approach.
     
  25. Crispy

    Crispy The following psytrance is baṉned: All

    Yep. Partial autonomy is dangerous

    Sent from my F5321 using Tapatalk
     
    wayward bob likes this.
  26. beesonthewhatnow

    beesonthewhatnow going deaf for a living

    :mad:
     
    BigTom likes this.
  27. hash tag

    hash tag Pedicabo omnes

    Funnily enough, I've just finished watching Jay Leno (old and new) and he drove a Tesla. Sadly, did not go into much detail.
     
  28. Crispy

    Crispy The following psytrance is baṉned: All

    Insidious fucking thing :(
     
  29. Cid

    Cid 慢慢走

    How does it handle stop lines? Mapped or response to environment? In fact there a quite a few things that, intuitively, seem difficult to respond to - I mean a traffic light is just another light source and can be positioned in a number of different places within a (human) driver's field of view. A moving cyclist is at least a moving thing, and construction works are abnormal features in a road - to me it's perhaps more impressive that they respond to some dirty white lines and a hexagonal sign.
     
  30. BigTom

    BigTom Well-Known Member

    Traffic lights are very specific light sources though, I doubt there's many if any other light sources with Red, Amber, Green all the same size stacked on top of each other, especially once you take into account the phasing of the lights and that often the vehicle will have time to see the lights change and I really doubt anything else in nature or our urban landscape would mimic that (except by intent of course). I agree about the dirty white lines and hexagonal signs though and do wonder how they will deal with low contrast when paint is really dirty or under puddles.
     

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