Automatic or Manual????

[soulman]

There is something macho and VERY arrogant in thinking it necessary to have a manual gearbox to control a vehicle. I would suggest you would shit your self on the first corner with my usual means of transport. (Some very macho power rangers have declined the offer of a test ride).

I didn't say you had to have a manual gearbox to control a vehicle. What I said was it gives you more control, which it does.

I'm sure the power rangers are queueing up for a backie on your moped.

 

[D]

This is one of those topics that gets people up in arms, isn't it?

I learned - as almost all Americans do - to drive an automatic transmission. I've yet to learn to drive manual, although I will one day. Manual transmission cars are fairly popular in San Francisco - I imagine it has something to do with making it more fun to drive up and down hills?

My (English) boyfriend and I both had automatics in South Africa and he absolutely loathed driving his. He insisted on shifting to neutral all the time before coming to a stop and, worse, he harangued me constantly about the fact that I didn't do that.

 

[liquidlunch]

the amount of power you get from a car depends on how much the engine is turning over (ie how much you're on the accelerator) and what gear you're in. with a manual you obviously choose which gear you're in. with an auto, the car chooses for you .

lets say you want to overtake a lorry going uphill and you don't have long to do it. in a manual, you may drop down a gear( if necessary), put your foot down and shoot past. in a ( cheap) automatic, you put your foot down and wait wait wait for the auto gearbox to change . by the time you start to increase speed , you're at the top of the hill but haven't managed to get past the lorry

crikey,sounds as if your car would not pull the skin off a rice pudding.When i floor either of my autos they kick back 1 or 2 gears [depending on the speed you are doing at the time]and swoosho away ya go.When passing trucks over here they normally have 3 trailers swinging off them as well so you dont sit right up their arse and pull out and tromp it,you begin your passing manourve about 300 metres from the back of the third trailer.Not only does this give you excellent vision of the road ahead it also allows you to be doing 110-130 kph when you reach the rear trailer so as the passing can be done much quicker which in turn is much safer.

 

[ICB]

does anyone else not get on with manuals, and is there any pro's/cons that i've missed,, and does it really get easier???

I don't really get on with autos, although I can see the advantages if you're doing a lot of town driving (probably not in SF though, where the manual shift would give you much better control on hills).

Your advantages to the auto seem to be to do with not being able to drive a manual properly rather than anything inherent in the design. May as well just have said "easier" and have done with.

The main pros/cons you missed are that manuals are more efficient hence more sustainable, cheaper to run/fix and can use the gears to slow down (engine braking not breaking )

Most manuals are actually easier in traffic than you may imagine as the engine management will allow you to coast with no throttle in 1st and 2nd, try it.

On the whole I think manuals are preferred by those who actively enjoy driving rather than view it as a necessary chore.

 

[rubbershoes]

crikey,sounds as if your car would not pull the skin off a rice pudding.

it was a holiday rental. I'd booked a nice beemer but mrs shoes made me cancel it cos it was too expensive and we ended up with a Nissan Crappi or summat

 

[Roadkill]

Well almost Engine breaking is where you drop down a gear, match the revs before releasing the clutch and then use the horsepower of the engine to gradually bring you down to the speed you want. Breakpads must be cheaper, but I've generally only driven 20 year old scrap heaps (Hippie Traveller wagons, mostly) where you want to rely on the breaks as little as possible

I thought that was engine braking? Surely 'engine breaking' is where you scream the engine from cold, rev it 'til it nearly comes through the bonnet, try and use every gear in the box on a 100-yard street and never change the oil?

 

[subversplat]

I thought that was engine braking? Surely 'engine breaking' is where you scream the engine from cold, rev it 'til it nearly comes through the bonnet, try and use every gear in the box on a 100-yard street and never change the oil?

x1000 etc.

Yes, OK.

 

[ICB]

I thought that was engine braking? Surely 'engine breaking' is where you scream the engine from cold, rev it 'til it nearly comes through the bonnet, try and use every gear in the box on a 100-yard street and never change the oil?

I have a much easier method.

Adjust the actuator so it's running at 20psi and stick normal unleaded in the tank....

<goes to lie down in darkened room>

 

[Chz]

Depends.

Sports cars and underpowered cars should always be manual. Beyond that, it's purely personal choice.

I've driven both for quite some time, and the only advantage I get out of rowing gears is the ability to drive even slightly *more* psychotic than I already do, and the ability to get that last 10% of the engine's output in an underpowered shitbox. I'd prefer an autobox in something like an Accord.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

To my way of thinking it is the steering,the acceleration and braking that controls the way your vehicle behaves.

A good driver can use a manual box to help control/influence all of the above.

 

[Spymaster]

An automatic gearbox can be used to slow the vehicle (engine braking).

 

[MikeMcc]

An automatic gearbox can be used to slow the vehicle (engine braking).

IME it's pretty poor at doing so though, it tends to be late to change down.

 

[Spion]

My car with an auto box slows quite considerably when you take your foot off the gas, though I'm not sure it's engine braking in the true sense. Do autos ever engine brake as a manual would? I always thought the fluid flywheel only worked in one direction.

 

[Spymaster]

You can manually drop into first or second gear with most auto boxes.

 

[Spion]

You can manually drop into first or second gear with most auto boxes.

Sure, but is the action of wheels turning on road transmitted all the way back to the engine? I don't think it is because there's a torque converter in the way. A similar effect to engine braking may be felt from the effect of the torque conv fluid attempting to drives the engine-side vanes, IYSWIM.

I'm googling around trying to solve this one right now

 

[Spymaster]

Sure, but is the action of wheels turning on road transmitted all the way back to the engine? I don't think it is because there's a torque converter in the way. A similar effect to engine braking may be felt from the effect of the torque conv fluid attempting to drives the engine-side vanes, IYSWIM.

I'm googling around trying to solve this one right now

You're quite right, I do see what you mean. Let us know what you get off google.

However the effect of doing so is still to slow the car e.g. if you stick it in first and roll down a hill, the gearing will brake the car.

 

[Spion]

This guy http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/030806.htm says there is energy transferred back through the TC to the engine, but that you don't get the benefit of it in all circumstances (eg a steep downhill) for engine braking unless you change down manually.

"Drag racers never downshift an automatic transmission manually, but there are many reasons for other drivers to do it. Engine braking is one of the major ones. High gear in many automatic transmissions is an overdrive range. During deceleration, the drive wheels are transferring the torque back through the transmission to the engine. Because the engine is running so slowly in high gear, there is very little engine braking effect occurring. This places a higher load on the vehicle brakes."

 

[Spymaster]

Told ya !

 

[Spion]

Hmmm, so in theory it should be possible to bump start an auto, which is someting I never thought possible.

 

[liquidlunch]

Everyone is talking about engine braking here,are you people driving formula 1 or what?What is the matter with the pedal next to the accelerator with BRAKE written on it?I drive a roadtrain for a living with 18 forward gears and i do use engine braking to slow down and i start this process 2 kays away from the town i am coming into.Also as i have 62 seperate sets of brake linings to wear down it is economical to use the engine for braking.In my automatic car however,i use the brakes as much as i want as they only wear out[disks]every 3 years and i have usually sold the thing before i need to replace them.

 

[Roadkill]

Everyone is talking about engine braking here,are you people driving formula 1 or what?What is the matter with the pedal next to the accelerator with BRAKE written on it?

a. You can help the brakes out by using the gears. That way they wear out less quickly. Not all of us are lucky enough to be able to afford a new car every three years...

b. Should you have brake failure (rare, but not unheard-of), engine braking is your best bet for avoiding an accident.

c. Engine braking won't lock your wheels up on a slippy road.

That do for starters?

 

[tobyjug]

c. Engine braking won't lock your wheels up on a slippy road.

I beg to differ there, as engine braking is on the majority of cars only operating on two wheels one can get in the shit rather rapidly on black ice if one just takes ones foot straight off of the throttle.
(This applied in spades with an articulated lorry, break the drive axle away and book a ticket to the mortuary).

 

[Roadkill]

I beg to differ there, as engine braking is on the majority of cars only operating on two wheels one can get in the shit rather rapidly on black ice if one just takes ones foot straight off of the throttle.

True, but if you're careful you're IME at less risk of a skid than if you jam your foot firmly on the middle pedal and hope for the best!

It's not as true now though, now that most cars have ABS.

 

[Iam]

I'll drive either, but I've generally bought manuals. I've had a couple of autos, though.

 

[tobyjug]

It's not as true now though, now that most cars have ABS.

They do? You surprise me.

 

[Spymaster]

Everyone is talking about engine braking here,are you people driving formula 1 or what?What is the matter with the pedal next to the accelerator with BRAKE written on it?

My pedals don't have anything written on them. I just have to remember what they all do. You do pick it up after a bit though.

 

[Iam]

Engine braking keeps the tailgaters real honest...

 

[MikeMcc]

Everyone is talking about engine braking here,are you people driving formula 1 or what?What is the matter with the pedal next to the accelerator with BRAKE written on it?I drive a roadtrain for a living with 18 forward gears and i do use engine braking to slow down and i start this process 2 kays away from the town i am coming into.Also as i have 62 seperate sets of brake linings to wear down it is economical to use the engine for braking.In my automatic car however,i use the brakes as much as i want as they only wear out[disks]every 3 years and i have usually sold the thing before i need to replace them.

As you've pointed out, it is more economical, particularly on steep downhills. It's also useful for speed control in town. In a 30 limit, keeping to third gear tends to keep the car at the correct speed meaning that more time can be spent in watching the road, rather than the instuments.

 

[liquidlunch]

As you've pointed out, it is more economical, particularly on steep downhills. It's also useful for speed control in town. In a 30 limit, keeping to third gear tends to keep the car at the correct speed meaning that more time can be spent in watching the road, rather than the instuments.

So how hard is selecting 2nd in the auto box to do the same job?

 

[TheFaxMachine]

Having said all that, I still think people ought to learn to drive on manuals

I "manually" learnt how to drive but could NEVER master clutch control. I'm shocked I managed to pass my test first time round. As soon as I did I knew I just had to buy an auto... and I will again, and again, and again... they're great and so easy to drive. Who said driving should be done manually though?!