Australia?

[tbaldwin]

I see you are yet again dragging "race" into this.

South Africans no longer carry "race cards" putting them into "white" "black" and "coloured" pidgeon-holes, yet you seem to want to re-label everyone according to their skin colour.

Care to explain what kind of "left-wing" thinking leads you to this?

"dragging race into this" Crikey are you really standing up for White South Africans and Australians now?

White South Africans and Australians stole land and now we are supposed to forget all that are we wipe the slate clean?

Trouble is that when they have kept all the wealth and still treat Blacks and aborigines like second class citizens in their own country,i cant help thinking there is still a racial angle....


And when i see so many South African and Australians in good jobs in London while Black people are still bottom of the pile.....I cant help bringing race into it....

 

[david dissadent]

Three pages on 'aboriginal rights' and not a mention of the Mabo or the Wik judgements and there impact on returning lands to traditional custodians of the land. No mention of the 2000 debate on the preamble to the constution and John Howards responce. No discussion on the 1967 citizenship vote.

Yes I agree most of the 'leftwing' posters on here are myopicaly focused on Palastine and the Middle East; but I dont think you are really trying to broaden the discussion to international human rights in general.

The aboriginal peoples (nad torres strait islanders) of Australia have a successful and motivated loby that has gotten them a great many consesions out of a first world economy that is improving there lives. While not even close to being alright one could with ease find many more worthy and needy peoples around the world to pick up the cludgles for.

The Fur and other peoples of the Darfur region spring to mind as they are the subject of a pretty determined ethnic cleansing and genocide, but they have some support from the christian right in America. One could look at the Tamils of Sri Lanka who are about to be plunged into another civil war or a host of other peoples denied there rights, freedoms and lives.

But someone that cannot even read a page on Wikipedia to gain the basic grounding in the situation is not someone I would listen to much too.

 

[TeeJay]

"dragging race into this" Crikey are you really standing up for White South Africans and Australians now?

White South Africans and Australians stole land and now we are supposed to forget all that are we wipe the slate clean?

Trouble is that when they have kept all the wealth and still treat Blacks and aborigines like second class citizens in their own country,i cant help thinking there is still a racial angle....


And when i see so many South African and Australians in good jobs in London while Black people are still bottom of the pile.....I cant help bringing race into it....

You are making sweeping statements about people based simply on the colour of their skin. You have no knowledge of whether certain person was involved in any way in historic wrongs and you have no way of knowing if the person wasn't a communist or ANC member or an anti-apartheid activist who has done far more than you ever will for that struggle. All you do is look at their skin colour and spout some half-baked rubbish.

I am still waiting for you to say anything about the situaion in Australia. It seems that in reality this whole thread is one big troll.

 

[Julie]

Doyou own lots of Oil and things like that? No wonder you want to defend higher education....and Australians.....

Absolutely hilarious

 

[ZAMB]

You've got something of an axe to grind - non? Another classic baldo thread.

I think this thread is supposed to be a reply to the one that I posted about the BBC's hypocrisy about apartheid, because he challenged me twice there on Australia. Perhaps it hasn't occurred to him that people are worried about the ME because of the ongoing violence there - and also that GWB and our own dear PM, not content with starting 3 wars there [one by proxy], are getting ready for the next one, which may well be nuclear? Not counting personal reasons for being upset with the apartheid regime in Israel - of course.

 

[ZAMB]

Maybe i should start a Campaign to get Australians all thrown into the sea? So the aborigines could have all their land back? Or maybe start a campaign for a twin state solution? Or maybe an International brigade that starts off killing all the Australians in London(Quite an appealing idea) and then goes off to fight the Racist bastards in Sydney

Why not start a campaign to give the US back to the native Americans, or, if you want a much more recent theft, to give Diego Garcia back to the Chagos islanders, and kick the USA off their largest base? Now there's an oppressed people for you!!

The behavior of the Blair government is, in many respects, the worst. In 2000, the islanders won a historic victory in the high court, which ruled their expulsion illegal. Within hours of the judgment, the Foreign Office announced that it would not be possible for them to return to Diego Garcia because of a "treaty" with Washington - in truth, a deal concealed from parliament and the US Congress. As for the other islands in the group, a "feasibility study" would determine whether these could be resettled. This has been described by Professor David Stoddart, a world authority on the Chagos, as "worthless" and "an elaborate charade". The "study" consulted not a single islander; it found that the islands were "sinking", which was news to the Americans who are building more and more base facilities; the US navy describes the living conditions as so outstanding that they are "unbelievable".

In 2003, in a now notorious follow-up high court case, the islanders were denied compensation, with government counsel allowed by the judge to attack and humiliate them in the witness box, and with Justice Ousley referring to "we" as if the court and the Foreign Office were on the same side. Last June, the government invoked the archaic royal prerogative in order to crush the 2000 judgment. A decree was issued that the islanders were banned forever from returning home. These were the same totalitarian powers used to expel them in secret 40 years ago; Blair used them to authorize his illegal attack on Iraq.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1027.htm

 

[Wess]

"dragging race into this" Crikey are you really standing up for White South Africans and Australians now?

White South Africans and Australians stole land and now we are supposed to forget all that are we wipe the slate clean?



And when i see so many South African and Australians in good jobs in London while Black people are still bottom of the pile.....I cant help bringing race into it....

While not trying to make any excuses for the ill treatment of the natives of Australia (of which there is plenty!) Your posts are all over the place mate.

Who do you think came here and "Stole" the land?
Who do you think it was that came over here with no regard whatsoever for those that were already here? This place has only been populated by Europeans for less than 10 generations! Reading your posts you seem to imply that Australians are a "race" of people, while the fact is we're just a mish mash of people lumped together over here from all over the world.

And as for the last paragraph, the highest number of immigrants in Australia, by far, is people from the UK. So, as far as Aussies stealing jobs in London, it seems as though it is happening on both sides of the pond. Not that I give a fuck but it's a ridicules argument.

Take some advice from TJ and at least start the thread with some examples, links and some semblance of reasoned argument.

 

[nino_savatte]

I think this thread is supposed to be a reply to the one that I posted about the BBC's hypocrisy about apartheid, because he challenged me twice there on Australia. Perhaps it hasn't occurred to him that people are worried about the ME because of the ongoing violence there - and also that GWB and our own dear PM, not content with starting 3 wars there [one by proxy], are getting ready for the next one, which may well be nuclear? Not counting personal reasons for being upset with the apartheid regime in Israel - of course.

Ah, that explains it.

 

[Streathamite]

the real reason for this thread finally emerges.

I think you may have a point. i also think balders has perhaps finally woken up to the aboriginal issue and is somewhat over-excited. balders, get up to speed mate.

 

[Streathamite]

While not trying to make any excuses for the ill treatment of the natives of Australia (of which there is plenty!) Your posts are all over the place mate.

Who do you think came here and "Stole" the land?
Who do you think it was that came over here with no regard whatsoever for those that were already here? This place has only been populated by Europeans for less than 10 generations! Reading your posts you seem to imply that Australians are a "race" of people, while the fact is we're just a mish mash of people lumped together over here from all over the world.

And as for the last paragraph, the highest number of immigrants in Australia, by far, is people from the UK. So, as far as Aussies stealing jobs in London, it seems as though it is happening on both sides of the pond. Not that I give a fuck but it's a ridicules argument.

Take some advice from TJ and at least start the thread with some examples, links and some semblance of reasoned argument.

umm....i'd like to clarify here. are you suggesting that the current generation of britons are somehow responsible for the evil acts (too numerous to mention) of the empire builder generation? only it reads like that, or else it's an old history lesson that most of us know inside out, ta.

 

[Julie]

Hey Wess,

Great to see ya!

 

[Wess]

umm....i'd like to clarify here. are you suggesting that the current generation of britons are somehow responsible for the evil acts (too numerous to mention) of the empire builder generation? only it reads like that, or else it's an old history lesson that most of us know inside out, ta.

Of course I'm not, I am pointing out the obvious discrepancy's in Balders argument. But if he is going to post about "Australians stealing land" then he should at least include those that formed and initiated the culture in Australia.
...and, I believe it only reads that way, if one specifically interprets it that way. All the while deliberatly disregarding how it was written originaly written and intended.


btw, condensention is not a valued aspiration jezza ...

 

[Pigeon]

Back on thread Pigeon....Any thoughts about Australia?

Yeah. The beer's shit.

 

[Fledgling]

Yeah. The beer's shit.

What about Cascade, that's alright?

Had balwin ever been to Australia, there's a lot of Brits in Sydney "stealing" jobs.

2/10 for the thread title and continuation (shouldn't be glib but have to go, this subject is interesting when you're here but there's a lot of anger. I still disagree with the idea that all Aboriginal people are oppressed or occupied. There's a variety of Aboriginal people here in various circumstances.).

 

[nino_savatte]

Where have you been hiding, Wess?

 

[Julie]

Yeah. The beer's shit.

Hostility will get you nowhere

 

[Pigeon]

What about Cascade, that's alright?

Don't believe I tried that, was just wall-to-wall Toohey's and VB when I was there.

2/10 for the thread title and continuation (shouldn't be glib but have to go, this subject is interesting when you're here but there's a lot of anger. I still disagree with the idea that all Aboriginal people are oppressed or occupied. There's a variety of Aboriginal people here in various circumstances.).

In my experience, the majority of white Australians can't deal with the Aboriginal question at all: the fact that Aboriginal life expectancy's dramatically shorter than the white population's, that healthcare's pretty much non existant in Aboriginal communities/reservations, and that the majority of white Australians would rather send their kids to private schools than risk having them mix with Aboriginal kids all speaks volumes.

Sadly I can't see the situation changing for the better any time soon, though- any form of organisation amongst the Aboriginal community itself seems to be well on the decline. I checked out the "tent embassy" opposite Parliament House in Canberra a few months back. It's now down to about 15 people and has a thoroughly dispirited feel to it.

 

[Pigeon]

Hostility will get you nowhere

Fuck you!

 

[Belushi]

How many aboriginal people are there?

 

[tbaldwin]

You are making sweeping statements about people based simply on the colour of their skin. You have no knowledge of whether certain person was involved in any way in historic wrongs and you have no way of knowing if the person wasn't a communist or ANC member or an anti-apartheid activist who has done far more than you ever will for that struggle. All you do is look at their skin colour and spout some half-baked rubbish.

I am still waiting for you to say anything about the situaion in Australia. It seems that in reality this whole thread is one big troll.

Teejay you do have a real problem with facts and evidence dont you?
I have not based my statements simply on the base of the colour of peoples skin.
Its a ridiculous thing to say.....I have criticised White SOUTH AFRICANS AND AUSTRALIANS as a point about the way they have treated people in SA and Australia.....
Of course for you that may be a generalisation.....So what, generalisations are by definition generally right.......
There may have been a few White South African anti aparthied activists but obviously they were in a small minority and if that many White Australians had given a dam about Aborigines how come there life chances are so shit..... ER GENERALLY......

 

[Streathamite]

Of course for you that may be a generalisation.....So what, generalisations are by definition generally right.......

HUH???? I'm sorry but they are NOT and it is absurd to claim they are.

 

[Streathamite]

btw, condensention is not a valued aspiration jezza ...

eh? que?

clarify?

 

[TeeJay]

Teejay you do have a real problem with facts and evidence dont you?

No, I like them.

You have problem with them, possibly because they are constantly showing you up for the fucking idiot and liar you are.

I remember now why I gave up even trying to debate with you: you are not interested in a debate, you are here to troll, nothing else.

You have still not said a single thing about what is going on in Australia. You are a total waste of time.

 

[Pigeon]

HUH???? I'm sorry but they are NOT and it is absurd to claim they are.

What if I said that baldwin generally talks a load of old shite?

 

[nino_savatte]

Baudouin parle beaucoup le merde!

 

[Pigeon]

Baudouin parle beaucoup le merde!

Fuck off back where you came from!

 

[tbaldwin]

No, I like them.

You have problem with them, possibly because they are constantly showing you up for the fucking idiot and liar you are.

I remember now why I gave up even trying to debate with you: you are not interested in a debate, you are here to troll, nothing else.

You have still not said a single thing about what is going on in Australia. You are a total waste of time.

You like a lot of people on Urban like facts.....BUT Only when it suits you...
Look up the facts in terms of how this govt has increased spending on the NHS and the facts on how many extra Nurses and Teachers have been employed by 97......
Then look at the fact that you said i was basing my views purely on peoples skin colour on this thread and look up the facts on that bullshit.

 

[nino_savatte]

Fuck off back where you came from!

Beg your pardon? I only said "Baldwin speaks a lot of shite" in French. "Baudouin" being the French for "Baldwin" iirc.

Now you fuck off back to the abandoned building from which you came.

 

[Pigeon]

Beg your pardon? I only said "Baldwin speaks a lot of shite" in French. "Baudouin" being the French for "Baldwin" iirc.

Ex-fuckin-zackly!

We don't want your sort round ere, with your furrin ways!

 

[Pigeon]

Duplicate post removed.