Discussion in 'UK politics, current affairs and news' started by Zabo, Jan 12, 2012.
Nice one fishfinger
Brilliant news fishfinger really pleased for you
And Yay for backpayments!!
Great news fishfinger . Well done for sticking it out.
fishfinger I'm sorry you've had to go through such a long horrid process. Glad it was ok in the end.
Thanks to all of you for the messages of support
Anytime. Least we can do for all the kind birthday threads you do
Question for ViolentPanda or other benefits experts:
My PIP assessment says I don't need any assistance because Toggle assists me. Can they use support provided by a partner as a reason to deny me PIP. They've denied me any PIP and ended my DLA and my appeal is being heard on February 13, only about ten days away.
Also, is a PIP award based on the support a person actually gets or on the need for support whether they get it or not?
It's based on the support you actually need, not what you currently get
Not sure about the rest but hopefully someone who is will be along shortly. Good luck with the appeal.
I'm not an expert but that is absolute bullshit.
No, getting support provided by a partner is definitely not a reason to deny you PIP. It's also based on the support you need, not what you get, because part of the intention of PIP/DLA is to pay for support (like taxi rides, mobility aids, having a carer help look after you - even a friend or relative - extra tickets to events so you can have someone there to support you, etc etc etc) that you probably won't be able to afford without PIP/DLA.
It's basically about "if you gave me this money I could get closer to living a normal life because I could spend it on [whatever] and without [whatever] I cannot..." Best to leave out the actual mention of money and phrase it in terms of support instead, but it is about the money really.
Good luck for the appeal Bakunin
Best of luck to you Bakunin
My IT mind kicked in when I read this post. And what it said was "race condition"
Because, if the provision of support automatically disqualified one for that support, you'd be in a system that oscillated between "unsupported" and "you've got support, so you don't need it". It's patently bollocks, and it says a lot about the functional idiocy of a system that it can't even recognise that.
I don't know enough to say what others, more knowledgeable than I, have already said, but it's obviously the case that, if you have to rely on someone else to support you, that is going to come at some sort of cost - even if it's only the potential cost of their not being able to do other things (like work) while they're supporting you.
Carers, in whatever form, make a massive but invisible contribution to the economy. If you didn't have a toggle, someone would be having to fork over money to provide the service she's providing. I am sure that any halfway-reasonable tribunal will be able to see that, and that your appeal will be successful, if there is any justice in this world. We know there is no justice in DWP decisions, but the rate of overturnings of those decisions at appeal makes it clear that there is at least some justice in that part of the process. Grab your piece of that justice - it's yours.
Best of luck Bakunin and please send my love to toggle.
I agree with the above posters that the decision makers are lazily denying your entitlement to PIP. The optimist in me thinks that an Appeal Panel will pick up on this so good luck Bakunin
Thinking again we might be able to give you more assistance if you tell us more about how your original assessment was conducted. If you don't want to do it here (though here is semi-private) then I'm going to volunteer equationgirl to read a PM as well as me and anyone else you might want to include.
There's a line from Tom Jones (book, not singer) that I've thought of for years:
“It is not enough that your designs, nay that your actions, are intrinsically good, you must take care they shall appear so.”
For disability assessments it is not enough that you actually are disabled, nor that all your actions are affected by your disability, but you must show that they are. This is not only because ATOS et al are despicable, but because they are not you. They need evidence, not just a feeling or your word. They do take doctor's opinions into account obvs but a lot of it is stuff that your doc won't necessarily know, or will be guessing at, esp if it's stuff not on scans or blood tests etc. For example, if you can't reliably travel by public transport alone then give examples of times you've tried (including times you even thought about doing it). Make it concrete - give them something hard to butt their heads against.
The silver lining in all this is that it does actually make you assess what help you need. In theory you could realise that you could manage without PIP if a few changes were made, but that's not for this thread really. Realising how much help you need can be depressing at first but getting the help you need is so much more of mood lifter that it's worth the mental process.
Yes, happy to help by pm Bakunin.
My sister has reapplied for PIP after being turned down and ATOS told her point blank that they don't even bother contacting your doctor or specialist they leave it down to the HCP. Yes my sister did record that phone call.
Had a reply to my request for a 2nd tier tribunal this morning. It was turned down by the same judge that did my tribunal Hardly surprising then that he didn't wan't to overrule himself.
Needless to say I will be filling in the enclosed form and going over his head.
Yeah, but they take evidence from doctors into account, don't they? Evidence you provide, I mean, like letters from them and scans and so on.
They're supposed to, whether or not they do is another matter. There was certainly an overreliance on the outputs of the software they used up to a few years ago, above any other evidence.
There's a lot of truth in what you say, but there's a downside, too.
For many people coping with long-term conditions, part of the process of coping is normalising their disability as far as they can, and just using the resources they do have to get on with life the best they can. But when they are forced, on a periodic basis, not just to enumerate every difficulty their disability or illness causes them, but to do so to a patently sceptical audience, who is quite likely simply to dismiss it out of hand, that has its own effects.
A very large percentage of the clients I see at the surgery have been, or are going, through the DWP assessment/appeal process. It's bad enough for those with physical disabilities or chronic pain, but for those with mental health problems, where having to think through just how awful your mental state makes your life, it is really harmful. A lot of people relate that the process leads them into a state of mind where they're thinking "fuck, if it is really this bad, why am I even bothering to try and carry on?". I am not remotely surprised that the rate of suicide attempts amongst benefits claimants is so much higher than amongst the population in general, and I think this is a classic example of the old truism that measuring things always affects the things being measured.
There has to be some kind of evaluation process, I accept that. But it should be enabling, not punitive. An assessor saying "so, if you're suicidal, why haven't you killed yourself yet?" should simply never happen - that's a question that can be asked, but only by the right people, in the right context, and not in a situation where the "wrong" answer can mean someone being deprived of their only means of support.
I don't disagree with any of that. I'm disabled, the parent of a disabled person, and have been posting on this thread for years. I do not need educating about what it's like to claim disability benefits.
I think that trying to phrase everything in concrete terms is very helpful for the box-ticking forms and assessments and can make a difference between a claim succeeding and being denied. That there is one upside to this - that it can help you identify what support might help you - does not mean that the many downsides cease to exist. So I said "silver lining" because that usually means "one good side of a shit situation," not "I love this and think it's all wonderful." If my post came across the latter way then I apologise.
I just saw this in the Blackpool Gazette. The poor bloke in this story. After all the trouble he already had in his life and then they take his money away from him. Cleared as fit to work of course.
Mark Hewitt, 51, theft
A man stole from a supermarket after he had to cope without any benefits for three months. Mark Hewitt, who lost his parents and sister in a car crash, took a digital radio and a bunch of flowers. Hewitt, 51, of Cheltenham Road, North Shore, pleaded guilty to theft of property valued at £54. He was given a 12 months conditional discharge and ordered to pay £40 costs with £20 victims’ surcharge. Prosecutor, Pam Smith, said staff at Sainsburys, Talbot Road, saw Hewitt removed the security tag from a radio on January 3. He then picked up a bunch of flowers and was apprehended after leaving without paying. Stephen Duffy, defending, said client suffered from Hepatitis C and an assessment by the authorities had led them to believe Hewitt was fit to work. Hewitt’s benefits were then sanctioned and he went 13 weeks without any money before an appeal was successful and the benefits were returned to him.
Read more at: Blackpool: From the courts 01-02-18
I in turn shall apologise for any suggestion that my post was critical of yours . It was meant only to be a perspective from the other end. I agree that, as the system stands, it is necessary to do things the way you described; my (probably off-topic) comments were born of my frustration at a system that wilfully does so much harm beyond what has already been done by disability, sickness, or mental ill-health.
To me, although the way assessments are conducted are adversarial at best and downright vindictive at worst, asking for concrete examples isn't in itself a bad thing. Otherwise all you'd have to go on is the diagnosis and that doesn't always tell you that much about how it affects your ability to go to work or look after yourself independently.
PIP Standard rate daily living and mobility, backdated to last April. Which also means Toggle can apply for Carer's Allowance and we'll regain the disabled element of Working Tax Credit (whether that would be backdated all the way we don't yet know). Thanks to folk who put up with me during this rather arduous process.
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